Do you believe the military prepared you for transitioning into the civilian sector?

SrA Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 16 Nov 2013 17:08:09 -0500

When I separated from the Air Force back in 2003, I had a 30 minute conversation with a separation counselor who provided me with a book to read and told me to collect my unemployment benefits and don't forget to use my GI Bill benefits as well.<br><br>It was so briefed, I really didn't know what resources were all out there to help us transitioning veterans.<br><br><br>

Response by PO3 John Wesley Ball made Nov 17 at 2013 8:03 PM

PO3 John Wesley Ball — Sun, 17 Nov 2013 20:03:44 -0500

Is this a serious question. The answer is NO!

The military barely prepared me for the job I was doing, I did not have any type of out brief when I left or any transition assistance. After 6 years active duty, I was given my separation papers and told to go home.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 17 at 2013 8:09 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 17 Nov 2013 20:09:33 -0500

No, but I do believe there have been efforts (at least of late) to mitigate our veterans needs.   Such basics as housing, food and a career.  There is more to be done,  but it needs to be us to get the community to rally around other veterans and make a real difference.   Anyone here thinking waiting for the government is going to do much good?

Response by MSgt Michael Sterling made Nov 18 at 2013 4:52 PM

MSgt Michael Sterling — Mon, 18 Nov 2013 16:52:01 -0500

My transition/retirement (1995) from the Air Force was a joke. My retirement physical paperwork was not completely filled out and there was no follow through on a problem that may have allowed me to collect disability. I was not even told about unemployment and having never worked in the real world I never even looked into it because I had never heard of it. Only thing I remember anything about were my educational benefits.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 18 at 2013 5:02 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 18 Nov 2013 17:02:36 -0500

No Absolutely not.

Response by SPC David Wyckoff made Nov 18 at 2013 5:10 PM

SPC David Wyckoff — Mon, 18 Nov 2013 17:10:05 -0500

No I don't believe that the military prepared me for that transition. For one thing, if I could go back and talk to myself just before I went to MEPPS I would tell myself to do whatever I wanted. Don't pick a job in the military that you think you want to do out in the private sector. The training might be good in the military but for the most part that training is worth the paper it's written on out in the private sector. You have to start all over and get their version of training to do the same job.
Second, I didn't get much of an outprocess. I went to pac, I went to medical, I went to CIF, I went to outbrief (also known as thanks for stopping by see ya later), and I got out. No one even told me that VA existed or that I needed to go check in with them.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 18 at 2013 5:28 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 18 Nov 2013 17:28:23 -0500

Well, I see that there is a lot of irritation about past experiences with transitioning. I've read everything from how bad the transition brief was to how poor the training was when they came in. That very well may have been. I know that at some point in time that I'm going to be a civilian again. So instead of sitting on my thumbs and waiting for that day to hit me in the face, I have taken advantage of the tuition assistance and will have my degree when I do get out. I will go online and research jobs that incorporate my military training and experience with my degree. You have to be pro-active in order to square yourself away. From my experience, the people who had a bad transition didn't take the initiative to prepare themselves.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 18 at 2013 5:37 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 18 Nov 2013 17:37:07 -0500

When I was getting ready to transition out as a civilian, it was mandatory for me to attend ACAP, or the Army Career and Alumni Program. Although I found it helpful in some areas, such as in resume writing and VA benefits, I wish they had told me that my security clearance was good for two years after I ETS'd and offered better job leads.

Response by SSG Laureano Pabon made Nov 18 at 2013 5:38 PM

SSG Laureano Pabon — Mon, 18 Nov 2013 17:38:18 -0500

I'm in the same boat as every one else here, only difference was that when I was informed I was going back to conus, it was from the DMZ Korea, and it was the CSM who brought me the news. I remember the CSM asked for SGT Pabon, the runner came to get me, The CSGM told me" You SGT Pabon ?" I said yes SGM, He said "Did you know your suppose to be out of the Army Last month?", me and the 1sgt heard that and I popped out my ID and I said no its next month, Well to make a long story short, I was on an jet back to Conus with in 24 hours. When I went through out process, I don't remember ever being told about unemployment or VA nor benefits. I remember being told about seeing a doctor about my teeth and getting my DD 214, discharge papers alone with an Army commendation metal. BUUTTTTTTTTT, now its different, now with the down sizing, I can perhaps help many future vets make that transition go right. I guess we can all help as well, so they at least know. The way it can be done is by informing them here in RP.

Response by PO2 Paul Kirby made Nov 18 at 2013 6:05 PM

PO2 Paul Kirby — Mon, 18 Nov 2013 18:05:22 -0500

When I separated from the Navy in 1995, I went through a separation program, but it was woefully inadequate. There was some resume help and time allowed to make cold calls for job stuff, but not much in the way of reconditioning me to civilian life after 6 years in the Navy.

Response by SSG Douglas Espinosa made Nov 18 at 2013 6:23 PM

SSG Douglas Espinosa — Mon, 18 Nov 2013 18:23:08 -0500

I believe the military is trying to get better at trying to improve the services through programs such as ACAP, however, when I got out I was no where near to being prepared to civilian life would be like.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 18 at 2013 6:37 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 18 Nov 2013 18:37:23 -0500

Although I am not separated from the military I do work at a transitioning facility. I can't speak for everyone, but I do see where a lot of our transitioners don't take advantage of the programs and resources that are offered to them (not that you are one of them). They seem to think there will be no hiccups and no delays and that everything will continue to work just like it did while they were active Soldiers and they find out this is definitely not the case.

The ARMY ACAP program is designed to be initiated within 2-5 years of you knowing you will ETS, but with many of us "Army career" minded, we don't work the ACAP part til we're in essence down to the wire. By that time we're then soo far behind the power curve for setting ourselves up for success that post transition things become frustrating.

My job has definitely opened my eyes to becoming "prepared" to transition, and not just being "ready" to transition.

Response by SGT R. Bryan Sheme made Nov 19 at 2013 10:26 PM

SGT R. Bryan Sheme — Tue, 19 Nov 2013 22:26:24 -0500

Back on 1997 they put us all through classes where they helped us write our resumes. It was all very helpful. They even gave me a day off to travel to Phoenix so that I could interview for my job with the Bureau.

Response by TSgt Albert Morse made Nov 20 at 2013 12:05 AM

TSgt Albert Morse — Wed, 20 Nov 2013 00:05:29 -0500

      I transitioned well becasue I was prepared well.  During my last three months of service I pulled in two paychecks.  One from the Air Force and one from my current employer.<div>    My best advice is seek a civilian certification while you wear the uniform.  The majority of companies do not recognize military training certificates.  Also every job gets its unique resume.  Do not write a "standard resume".  Most companies do not care if you can disassmble a machine gun but they do care if you can disassemble a machine and replace components.  </div><div>     I was prepared well because one year before I was set to leave I started reading want ads and company websites.  I learned what a company was looking for and I fit the mold as best as possible.  I also spoke with others in the same scenario.  We discussed the interview questions and we made sure our friends did not make the same interview mistake we made.  We learened from one another and we all got jobs.</div>

Response by MAJ Joseph Parker made Nov 20 at 2013 3:55 AM

MAJ Joseph Parker — Wed, 20 Nov 2013 03:55:21 -0500

SrA Steve M.: The Military's primary job is to win wars. All the tools for transitioning back to "world" are available, just not well deployed. So of course the military falls short preparing the SM for transition. Hopefully the vet has developed enough initiative and self discipline while in the service that transitioning doesn't have to be spoon-fed to them. See SGT(P) Alan R.'s excellent post. Frankly, do today's SM's really WANT the military planning their transition for them?

Here are a few humble recommendations. They are free, take them as you will:

1. Talk to vets and retirees that have already made the transition. Experience, connections, understanding, people who speak the SM's language and will care about them more than some of the people who are getting paid to transition them do. RP is a great place to start! (By the way: I notice there are no commissioned officers in this thread. O5 and above usually have the toughest transitions).

2. Use the chain of command: See SPC Wyckoff's post. It's their JOB to make every SM a better SM. Get classes, assignments, counseling, etc.

3. Leaving the military isn't the end of a life of honor, discipline, or service. Set goals for life after separation and use every single resource the military has to help prepare for those goals.

4. While in the military, do your job to the best of your ability and serve selflessly. Put your subordinates first. If you haven't performed well in the service, you won't be worth a damn as a vet, and no amount of transition assistance in the world will gloss it over.

This retiree and employer is looking forward to working with some solid veterans some day.

Response by PO2 Jeffrey S. made Nov 20 at 2013 4:51 AM

PO2 Jeffrey S. — Wed, 20 Nov 2013 04:51:31 -0500

When I was discharged from the Navy in 1981. There was no program to help with the transition to civial life. I was luck and had a job linded up before I got out. But the military should give all the help that is needed to the new veterans getting out. They servered their country in time of need and now it is time to return that need to them, all.

Response by PO1 Greg Mitchell made Nov 20 at 2013 3:21 PM

PO1 Greg Mitchell — Wed, 20 Nov 2013 15:21:30 -0500

When I transitioned out of the Navy, I understood that it was my responsibility to prepare for the private sector. I honestly don't feel that the military owes us a transition plan. We joined the service voluntarily so we must prepare ourselves for the switch. T.A.P. is not very informative, they will teach you how to write a resume, but will show you the one page method which is outdated and wrong, especially for technical fields...the one size fits all method. In every community there are great resources transitioning military members can use to help them start another career.

Response by CPL Winston Vermilyea made Nov 20 at 2013 4:00 PM

CPL Winston Vermilyea — Wed, 20 Nov 2013 16:00:01 -0500

At the time of my separation the Marine Corps did little if anything to prepare us for civilian life. My skills as a musician were not of use anywhere in the outside world and my employers thought very little of my service training.

Response by CMDCM Gene Treants made Nov 20 at 2013 9:19 PM

CMDCM Gene Treants — Wed, 20 Nov 2013 21:19:15 -0500

Wow, what a different experience I had in 1996, in the USN. We were given a week of briefings while still on active duty, about 9 months prior to retirement or separation. Classes covered everything from pay and benefits to medical and dental and veterans benefits. There were sessions on VA benefits and applying for VA Medical (where to go and what to include). Classes on resume preparation, job interviews, dress for success, and all types of business experience. Overall, USN did a really great job of preparation for transition.

Response by LTC Donald (Don) Bachler made Nov 25 at 2013 12:34 PM

LTC Donald (Don) Bachler — Mon, 25 Nov 2013 12:34:45 -0500

The military did not prepare me, but should they be in this business?

I had planned on rolling into a civilian instructor position, as many of my friends did, but that came to a screeching halt with the drawdown. They fired 33 existing instructors rather than hiring new ones. 26 months later and I am still (passively) seeking employment.

I attended ACAP, but did not find it very helpful. It is no longer a DOD program, but is contracted out. The person teaching my ACAP class also had a second job as a waitress. Not very confidence inspiring. They obviously hadn't cracked the code, either, so why were they teaching us? All advice received was contradictory, but as I have found, nobody knows the answers.

We spend a lot of time developing a 1-2 page resume, but nobody in nearly 400 applications and in over 12 job fairs I have attended has ever wanted to see it. Every company wants you to build a unique resume on their website, in their proprietary software. I have a 20+ page master resume that I use as a starting point for this process. I have seen job description lengths between 500 and 3000 characters. Do I use: problem, action, result? Guidance is contradictory. Do I use keywords? Again contradictory if I use them and what they even are. Do we write cover letters? I have been told yes and no, and even to only write a cover letter and not a resume. I spend 2-6 hours building an application, to never hear a response. It appears you must have inside connections to the company, and the online application process is set up to screen you out rather than hire qualified applicants.

I have used head hunter agencies to no avail: Lucas & Assoc, Orion, Bradley Morris, Hire Heroes, Wounded Warrior Project, etc. But these are all set up for those who served 4-6 years. They don't know what to do with someone with over 20 years of service.

Education does not help. I have a master's degree form a very good university, but so what? Most employers seem more interested in civilian certifications, such as PHR and SPHR for the HR field, or PMP for project management, etc. My recommendation would be to pursue those certifications in your desired field rather than a college degree. A college degree only shows that you are willing to stick with something for a fews years, and you military service already does that for you.

But the real bottom line is should the services be responsible for our transitioning? Personnel costs are already the largest portion of the budget. And in an era of dwindling resources any cent spent on anything other than refitting the force and preparing it to fight the nations wars is a waste of funds. Yes, transitioning is tough, especially if the military is all we have ever done our entire adult lives. But it is up to us to transition into something that works for us. Now off my soapbox and back to my study guides for certifications and teaching...

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Feb 12 at 2016 4:26 PM

CW3 Kevin Storm — Fri, 12 Feb 2016 16:26:55 -0500

I would like to ask a more serious question, are you owed that? The reality is, we signed on the dotted line, does uncle sugar owe you anything after that? IMHO, not really, if the service is available and you choose to use it, so be it, if not its not like we are different than any other contract worker anywhere else.