Do you believe NCO Leadership schools should be structured to provide Enlisted with Degrees?

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 10 May 2016 10:27:35 -0400

Officers get degrees through certain Leadership Schools, lets use Army for example: ALC should provide an Associates, SLC should provide a Bachelors, and SGM Acedemy should provide a Masters, so we can be on par with our Officers, whats your thoughts

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made May 10 at 2016 10:32 AM

Lt Col Jim Coe — Tue, 10 May 2016 10:32:45 -0400

I think the Services should work for accreditation of their Leadership Schools so the courses would give the students college credit if they don't already. Leave the degree granting to civilian institutions.

Response by CW3(P) Private RallyPoint Member made May 10 at 2016 10:33 AM

CW3(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 10 May 2016 10:33:04 -0400

Of course. All leadership schools should be worth some kind of credits

Response by CSM William Payne made May 10 at 2016 10:33 AM

CSM William Payne — Tue, 10 May 2016 10:33:18 -0400

I believe the Air Force has been using this model for years.

Any Air Force vets feel free to correct me if I am incorrect.

We have done a good job getting many courses to provide credits for your degree, but not to the extent that we can.

Response by COL Sam Russell made May 10 at 2016 10:33 AM

COL Sam Russell — Tue, 10 May 2016 10:33:49 -0400

As long as those courses meet and maintain credentialing, with regular assessments of academic rigor, including thesis and oral comp requirements.

Response by SSG Derrick L. Lewis MBA, C-HRM made May 10 at 2016 10:36 AM

SSG Derrick L. Lewis MBA, C-HRM — Tue, 10 May 2016 10:36:41 -0400

SSG Private RallyPoint Member ,
The enlisted service member industry is starting to move in that direction. I feel that it is long overdue, but one can never frown at forward progress.
http://www.snhu.edu/about-us/news-and-events/2014/07/snhu-partners-with-usasma-for-education-masters-degree

SNHU Partners with USASMA for Education Masters Degree

United States Army Sergeants Major will have the opportunity to expand their leadership skills with an accelerated Master of Education from Southern New Hampshire University. This in-residency program at Fort Bliss, TX, is the result of a partnership with the U.S. Army Sergeants Major Academy (USASMA) and includes a concentration in Education Leadership. The customized M.Ed. program in curriculum and instruction continues SNHU’s long...

Response by MCPO Roger Collins made May 10 at 2016 10:55 AM

MCPO Roger Collins — Tue, 10 May 2016 10:55:27 -0400

Never happen to any serious level. There will be lip service, but little results. The arrogance and loss of revenue in our institutions of higher learning will never permit any substantial credit for military schools. Of my solid four and a half years of education and nearly 40 correspondence courses (not nine months actual on campus counting as a year) My credits and actual private industry training/education is worth about the equivalent of an Associates, yet a major corporation used the same information to grand an equivalency of a Masters (and all the pay and prestige associated with it).

Response by MSgt James Mullis made May 10 at 2016 12:09 PM

MSgt James Mullis — Tue, 10 May 2016 12:09:47 -0400

No, but they might want to think about opening up enlisted slots in the Services' Graduate Schools ( Army War College, Navy War College, Naval Post-Graduate School, Air War College, Marine Corps War College, National Defense University, and the Industrial College of the Armed Forces). The officer corp might even learn something from the experience.

Response by Sgt William Biggs made May 10 at 2016 2:27 PM

Sgt William Biggs — Tue, 10 May 2016 14:27:19 -0400

Without a doubt. Why not set up a partnership with local, regionally accredited universities? Makes them money and helps with Enlisted transition.

Response by MAJ Javier Rivera made May 10 at 2016 4:33 PM

MAJ Javier Rivera — Tue, 10 May 2016 16:33:39 -0400

I totally agree with it and is a project that has been on the works for some time. Nevertheless, it need to be understood that it takes time and a lot of effort to develop courses that are accepted by the various accrediting agencies and colleges around the nation. Remember that professional military education at the end of the day is that: military education designed to better prepare our service members to design, develop plans and execute them, and lead our nation's war efforts.

Response by SFC Andrew Miller made May 10 at 2016 5:12 PM

SFC Andrew Miller — Tue, 10 May 2016 17:12:39 -0400

There are a lot of different partnerships and MOUs in place between different colleges and universities and military schools. A few of these are formal partnerships, but most are informal. An example of a formal is the Respiratory Tech course through MTC at JBSA. They have a few courses that are required as pre-req's, but then you spend the first 8 weeks doing accelerated courses through Thomas Edison State College. Once those are done you move into the actual technician courses and clinicals. Upon completion you receive an A.S. from TESC.

There are far too numerous informal partnerships to try and mention, but most schools will look at the American Council on Education's recommendations for credit for military training and experience and grant credit for any of those that they actually offer courses for. These are all regionally accredited schools I'm referring to, both public and private. While saying the courses themselves should be enough to justify granting a degree is little extreme, I think it is on the right track.

If the NCOES system was revamped so that you had a certain amount of pre-requisite work done prior to each course, I could see the course itself being the educational capstone to culminate in a degree. I see completing Battle Staff or First Sergeant Course While you in no way want to get rid of the military specific training and education, it would not be that difficult to incorporate an extended extra phase or two of VTC or online learning to augment what already exists.

The only thing I totally disagree with is the part of your last sentence, SSG Private RallyPoint Member, "so we can be on par with our Officers". The officers have their lane and as NCOs, we have ours. They make policy, and we enforce it. There is no being on par, because we have two different roles to fill. Having a degree will help in that you have become more professionally and personally enriched. It will help you in your search for employment after the military. It can NOT put you on par with your officers, because your leadership and professionalism should already have you on par with them.

Response by SFC Harry (Billy) Tison made May 10 at 2016 5:48 PM

SFC Harry (Billy) Tison — Tue, 10 May 2016 17:48:55 -0400

No, but they should count more towards those degrees and more incentives for going to college should be given to the men and women who attend such training

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 10 at 2016 6:03 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 10 May 2016 18:03:36 -0400

No, ALC is an MOS specific school designed to make an NCO a better leader in his or her MOS

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 10 at 2016 8:19 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 10 May 2016 20:19:21 -0400

I'm currently in CGSC, and we were told that USASMA is moving to a masters accreditation so they can award MA's upon completion.

That being said, USASMA is one-year long...could you cram 2 or 4 years of education into ALC and SLC (while still retaining the education and training the Army needs to provide)?