Posted on Jul 1, 2015
Do you agree with the author - Have we just lost the Initiative?
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Have we just lost the Initiative.......? This is controversial in nature and will take some real concentrated ready of the article and an open mind.
Very interesting article on a number of topics that we have covered here on RP over the last several months:
Time for societal re-engagement:
1. Compulsatory national service.
2. Reinstate the draft.
3. Transformation of the military.
4. Non-partisan re-districting political boundaries.
5. Elimination of the current election primary system.
What are your comments and thoughts about this article and the author's (5) ways to build shared social compact:
http://joetrella3.blogspot.com/2015/04/time-for-societal-re-engagement.html
Very interesting article on a number of topics that we have covered here on RP over the last several months:
Time for societal re-engagement:
1. Compulsatory national service.
2. Reinstate the draft.
3. Transformation of the military.
4. Non-partisan re-districting political boundaries.
5. Elimination of the current election primary system.
What are your comments and thoughts about this article and the author's (5) ways to build shared social compact:
http://joetrella3.blogspot.com/2015/04/time-for-societal-re-engagement.html
Politics
Society
Social
Service
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 5
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1 & 2 are the same. However you will never get the "best value" from compelled individuals.
3. It's great to make broad statements like Active Duty should be Combat Arms, and Reserve/NG should be CS/CSS, but... that would not be functional.
4. I agree with non-partisan redistricting. It's just a matter of what system we use.
5. This falls in line with 4.
Now for my counterpoints.
The purpose of a Draft or Compelled Service to to expand the military to a Necessary Size. If we need 5 Million troops, that's what we use a Draft for. It's not to make Society Better. It is not Government's Purpose to make Society better. It is not Government's place to manipulate the People. That turns the People into servants of the Government, and not the other way around.
Although I like the idea of Service, I am a firm believer that Service should be Voluntary, unless we find ourselves in a situation that absolutely requires Conscription. That is a matter of Necessity, which brings me to the structuring of the Services themselves.
The Services adjust their structure constantly based on current need. They evolve based on not only what is happening now, but forecasting what may be needed in the future.
Redistricting is a separate issue though. Currently our districts are made up of States, and then subdivided below that. The major flaw is the disparity in size between districts, combined with how we "weight" the districts. I mention in another thread, but we can't have districts the size of California, Rhode Island, and Florida and maintain balance, but we also can't go straight popular vote without create "different" issues.
As for the primary system, when you let the foxes run the hen house, they'll divvy up the chickens how they see fit.
3. It's great to make broad statements like Active Duty should be Combat Arms, and Reserve/NG should be CS/CSS, but... that would not be functional.
4. I agree with non-partisan redistricting. It's just a matter of what system we use.
5. This falls in line with 4.
Now for my counterpoints.
The purpose of a Draft or Compelled Service to to expand the military to a Necessary Size. If we need 5 Million troops, that's what we use a Draft for. It's not to make Society Better. It is not Government's Purpose to make Society better. It is not Government's place to manipulate the People. That turns the People into servants of the Government, and not the other way around.
Although I like the idea of Service, I am a firm believer that Service should be Voluntary, unless we find ourselves in a situation that absolutely requires Conscription. That is a matter of Necessity, which brings me to the structuring of the Services themselves.
The Services adjust their structure constantly based on current need. They evolve based on not only what is happening now, but forecasting what may be needed in the future.
Redistricting is a separate issue though. Currently our districts are made up of States, and then subdivided below that. The major flaw is the disparity in size between districts, combined with how we "weight" the districts. I mention in another thread, but we can't have districts the size of California, Rhode Island, and Florida and maintain balance, but we also can't go straight popular vote without create "different" issues.
As for the primary system, when you let the foxes run the hen house, they'll divvy up the chickens how they see fit.
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COL Mikel J. Burroughs
Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS Thanks for taking the time to get into the article. The draft thing totally turned me off. I wrote a paper in the War College on the all-volunteer army and the concept that when we went to war the community went to war. It has worked remarkably well and I believe it has gotten the military involved with the American population and people. There was some real meat to the Redistricting and primary system - those definitely need to be overhauled. Thanks for getting into it!
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SSgt (Join to see)
You are from a generation like myself that thinks of the draft as so un-American.
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
SSgt (Join to see) I think Conscription is counter to the concept of Freedom of Choice. It may occasionally be necessary, but as technology has advanced, that need has dropped so low, the All Volunteer Force fulfills that need.
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Nope, time for Leadership..The current troops will perform, if they have a defined mission. In my opinion (especially after reading that ISIS is killing children), is we have to move..Estimates are that ISIS is 30,000 strong (maybe more now), we could send the 82d there and kick their ass in 3 days or less..My question is, What the hell are we waiting for?
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1. Compulsory National Service - Not a good idea. We would get people who couldn't hack it or simply don't want to be there. Now they get kicked out and they have a black mark in their permanent record.
2. Reinstate the draft - Why? What's wrong with an all-volunteer military?
3. Transformation of the military - I don't agree with the author on this one either. If we were to try and put the military in the public eye more, I think citizens would come to resent it (the military).
4. Non-partisan re-districting political boundaries - This one I agree with.
5. Elimination of the current election primary system - I was just suggesting something like this by eliminating the Electoral College and I was basically called stupid saying that "large states will get more of a vote than small rural areas." Isn't that what the EC does? Larger states get more EC votes than smaller ones, and our EC representatives don't even have to vote for the candidate who won the popular vote. Why not just eliminate the middle man and give that power directly to the people?
2. Reinstate the draft - Why? What's wrong with an all-volunteer military?
3. Transformation of the military - I don't agree with the author on this one either. If we were to try and put the military in the public eye more, I think citizens would come to resent it (the military).
4. Non-partisan re-districting political boundaries - This one I agree with.
5. Elimination of the current election primary system - I was just suggesting something like this by eliminating the Electoral College and I was basically called stupid saying that "large states will get more of a vote than small rural areas." Isn't that what the EC does? Larger states get more EC votes than smaller ones, and our EC representatives don't even have to vote for the candidate who won the popular vote. Why not just eliminate the middle man and give that power directly to the people?
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COL Mikel J. Burroughs I am optimist, not a gloom and doomer. I know after Vietnam many thought all was lost... I know the old timers, when I came in, thought we were weak and couldn't hang. They were wrong. I also know on 911, we old guys feared the next generation was soft and weak, and couldn't hang; we were flat wrong. I think we will be OK... The media is killing us.
That said, these are my thoughts:
1. Compulsatory national service.
This would be awesome, serve in the military, peace corps etc... and earn your way.
2. Reinstate the draft.
I think the volunteer force is just fine. Conscripts are quite different than volunteers...
3. Transformation of the military.
The military is constantly transforming. But, usually we are well prepared to fight the last war, and unprepared to fight the next war. If we could actually predict who and where, we would have something.
4. Non-partisan re-districting political boundaries.
OK... Makes sense.
5. Elimination of the current election primary system.
And replace it with with? The Octagon?
That said, these are my thoughts:
1. Compulsatory national service.
This would be awesome, serve in the military, peace corps etc... and earn your way.
2. Reinstate the draft.
I think the volunteer force is just fine. Conscripts are quite different than volunteers...
3. Transformation of the military.
The military is constantly transforming. But, usually we are well prepared to fight the last war, and unprepared to fight the next war. If we could actually predict who and where, we would have something.
4. Non-partisan re-districting political boundaries.
OK... Makes sense.
5. Elimination of the current election primary system.
And replace it with with? The Octagon?
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Compulsory national service? We already have compulsory education and that's been turned into indoctrination into the Leftist ideology that has usurped our government. Imagine how much more damage the government could do with young adults. Continue the indoctrination. What else would you expect?
Reinstate the draft? Why? We have the best military in the world. We have the most battle-hardened troops in the world. A handful of Marines or Rangers could take down ISIS without any great difficulty. No other nation is mounting main battle forces. So what would you do with all those draftees? Ah yes, indoctrinate them.
Transformation of the military? Haven't we had enough transformation in this country under the current Administration?
Non-partisan re-districting? Where are you going to find a "non-partisan"? I sure don't know any? I'm sure as hell not non-partisan. I'm as partisan as they come. Do you think anyone in the current government would want me drawing lines? Yeah, right.
Change the primary system? I could get behind that one. Remember the system we used to have? Only if you're as old as me and been paying attention. Primaries were advisory only. Candidates were selected by the parties based on their ability to lead, raise funds, organize, etc. Now they're chosen by the people based on sound bites and popularity. Which system worked better? Well, we used to have choices like Eisenhower and Stevenson. Kennedy and Nixon. Johnson and Goldwater. Then we started letting the people pick the candidates and got Carter, Gore, Bush, Obama, et al. We should give the people choices the same way parents give their children choices. Do you tell your child to eat their vegetables or go to their room? (Right. Eat nasty green stuff or go to my room where my toys are) No, eat peas or carrots. I don't care which you choose. They're both good for you. Wouldn't the nation be better off if We the People only had good choices of candidates?
Reinstate the draft? Why? We have the best military in the world. We have the most battle-hardened troops in the world. A handful of Marines or Rangers could take down ISIS without any great difficulty. No other nation is mounting main battle forces. So what would you do with all those draftees? Ah yes, indoctrinate them.
Transformation of the military? Haven't we had enough transformation in this country under the current Administration?
Non-partisan re-districting? Where are you going to find a "non-partisan"? I sure don't know any? I'm sure as hell not non-partisan. I'm as partisan as they come. Do you think anyone in the current government would want me drawing lines? Yeah, right.
Change the primary system? I could get behind that one. Remember the system we used to have? Only if you're as old as me and been paying attention. Primaries were advisory only. Candidates were selected by the parties based on their ability to lead, raise funds, organize, etc. Now they're chosen by the people based on sound bites and popularity. Which system worked better? Well, we used to have choices like Eisenhower and Stevenson. Kennedy and Nixon. Johnson and Goldwater. Then we started letting the people pick the candidates and got Carter, Gore, Bush, Obama, et al. We should give the people choices the same way parents give their children choices. Do you tell your child to eat their vegetables or go to their room? (Right. Eat nasty green stuff or go to my room where my toys are) No, eat peas or carrots. I don't care which you choose. They're both good for you. Wouldn't the nation be better off if We the People only had good choices of candidates?
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