Do we need the DIVARTY again?

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 23 Jul 2014 11:58:31 -0400

So, while the Infantry and Armor branches continue their age old struggle for supremacy, and while they were distracted, the true winner is the Field Artillery. The DIVARTY is back!! The question is, do we need it back. This 1980-1990's construct is the helm of all Artillery under a division, responsible for the training and professional excellence of our King of Battle. Is it necessary though? Have we lost the ability to train these formations at the Brigade Combat Team level so they are effective on the battlefield? Is "branch-ism" on the rise in the Army?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 23 at 2014 2:40 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 23 Jul 2014 14:40:20 -0400

I beg your pardon, I'm responding to the visible part of paragraph one. May I re-phrase? 'Struggle for survival". Yes. Also, self sustaining Heavy Cavalry. All of those "1980's, 90's" pain in the neck countries have ours, and the Russian's Armor/Arty capabilities. Using "DIVISION" "ARMY GRP" instead of "BRIGADE" would help too. (semantics). Verbiage, and syntax are psy-weapons. Mr. Putin uses them well, we should too.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 19 at 2014 12:02 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 19 Aug 2014 12:02:45 -0400

"Necessary" is a strong word, sir. The only things necessary to train the artillery is the freedom to get the guns in the field, an open impact area, and good lots of fuses and propellant. A BCT command team is nearly as well equipped as a Division command team to provide these implements, but perhaps the willingness to provide the freedom to train has decreased as the artillery diffused into the BCT.

Training fire support may be the most difficult goal since FISTers often reside in HHCs and HHTs, or even in the line-Companies and Troops. For the 13Bs, FDOs, and PLs, a Battalion commander should be sufficient to protect the Batteries' training time. For the 13Fs and FSOs, however, the question obviously becomes "What is more important; training and living as part of the maneuver team, or being a proficient FO team?" 1-319th seemed to have struck a balance when I was there in 2008; 13Fs and FSOs live with the maneuver, but visit home for a few months of every year to re-blue (re-red??).

My somewhat removed analysis is that BCTs are still *capable* of training FA Battalions to be effective in the fight, but the empirical evidence may show that they accomplish the opposite. As for "branch-sim," what do I know? I'm just a Loggie now...

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 11 at 2015 6:31 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 11 Nov 2015 18:31:03 -0500

This is an old topic, but I'm going to join in anyway. I've been in since 1991 and I've been at every FA level from platoon to Corps Artillery. Yes, we need the DIVARTY back and it isn't just to train the FA BNs and FISTers. Since the DIVARTYs went away I've seen a degradation not just in basic FA skills, but in overall Fires Mission Command capabilities. Examples include FA BNs not being integrated into the combined arms plan unit after deployment or arrival at CTC, poor sensor to shooter links, no ammo management at BDE level and above causing a huge mismatch of lots, no calibration plan other than to just shoot whatever units feels like, and lopsided maintenance programs in theater. FA BNs need an advocate at the Division level to help them perform, as well as a guiding hand to keep them focused. Also, the COIN fight is going away. Even if we go back into Iraq to fight ISIS we won't be doing it the same way we fought from 2003-2010. Division needs a Fires centric HQ that can do things like provide the G2 and FSE/FSC with Artillery focused IPB, as well as other perspectives.

Response by SGT James Lipscomb made May 2 at 2017 6:20 PM

SGT James Lipscomb — Tue, 02 May 2017 18:20:21 -0400

It seems like the issue is one of perspective of brigade commanders. Most of the brigades in the army are traditional in the they have a battalion of infantry, battalion of armor, and a battalion artillery I believe. If the Army would look at all of their traditional brigades and see if the commanders were evenly distributed among the three branches, then the 05, 04, 03, and Senior enlisted from the other branches would learn perspective of that for which is not their specialty. Losing their commands in am untimely manner due to an ineffective use of the branches for which they are less familiar would clear up any misunderstanding about what is expected. By the time they reach 06 they need to be thinking they are no longer Branch designated. If an 05 from one branch could not operate at least at the 04 b staff level for the other two branches if he had to, then he is not ready to be promoted to 06 and a brigade command position.

Response by MAJ R. Andrew Hoskinson made Sep 17 at 2017 11:15 AM

MAJ R. Andrew Hoskinson — Sun, 17 Sep 2017 11:15:39 -0400

Do you need a Division FSCOORD? Should that person also have the authority to exercise command and control of and mass all artillery assets in the division? Then yes, you need a DIVARTY.