Do we need more ethics training? And do we need to evaluate its effectiveness?

LTC Paul Mullins — Mon, 14 Sep 2015 13:35:44 -0400

Link to the GAO findings: http://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-15-711 and a link to the MOAA article: http://www.moaa.org/Content/Take-Action/Top-Issues/Currently-Serving/Military-Ethics-Called-Into-Question.aspx.

Military Personnel: Additional Steps Are Needed to Strengthen DOD's Oversight of Ethics and...

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Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Sep 14 at 2015 1:50 PM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Mon, 14 Sep 2015 13:50:28 -0400

The major problem I've always seen with out "ethics training" has been one of approach.

We tend to approach it from a "bottom up" philosophy rather than incorporating a "top down" philosophy as well.

By that I mean we focus on the individual, and stress the importance of ethical behavior. That is essential. However, we never address the "leader's" or "manager's" duty not to place his people into ethical quandaries.

In essence, isn't putting someone into an ethical dilemma (situation) a risky behavior? Isn't it playing the odds over the long run. Shouldn't we train our leaders/managers to avoid this behavior, and reduce said risk, in addition to teaching ethics to the individuals themselves?

Response by CSM Charles Hayden made Sep 14 at 2015 2:06 PM

CSM Charles Hayden — Mon, 14 Sep 2015 14:06:40 -0400

LTC Paul Mullins, Considering the rapidity with which US Navy ship's captains are being relieved; either more training on ethics or a faster intake system for potential vessel commanders is needed.

Response by SSgt Alex Robinson made Sep 14 at 2015 2:52 PM

SSgt Alex Robinson — Mon, 14 Sep 2015 14:52:31 -0400

Ethics are the foundation of any leader. But sometimes common senses needs to be used

Response by SGT Bryon Sergent made Sep 14 at 2015 3:13 PM

SGT Bryon Sergent — Mon, 14 Sep 2015 15:13:20 -0400

Well I have read a couple of the comments here and agree with most. You can't bust the Staff Sergeant for sleeping with a lower enlisted female, or visa versa, and give the book to him, loss of rank and bad conduct ........... whatever and then the 4 star get off with retirement and all of their benefits and a slap on the wrist and thank you for your service. If we are going to teach the ethics and ENFORCE them it should be the same at all RANK level. If the officer in the National guard used to be enlisted and he or she is in a commented relationship and is promoted to the officer and they get busted and relieved of duty and the enlisted busted down. Then why does the Field grade or general staff not! Just a double standard. Everyone should be treated the same regardless of the rank. The regs are clear. UCMJ is clear. Unless there is a different set of rules for one and not the other.
I think that yes, we as the lower enlisted need the class but to what extent. We already have so many power points that we have to do through out the year that it is ridiculous. why cant the leaders have the training and then teach there Joe's? Don't get me wrong I DON"T want more classes to do that we already have but damn it it is time we enforce the standard and quit all of this PC crap and just do it. So little johnny gets his feel bads hurt. I can remember getting the crap smoked out of me when I screwed up! I learned not to do it again. Paper to some doesn't mean crap! its just paper, cool is that all I'm getting OK! Lets do paper. Next day same attitude, if not worse, and same thing is wrong!

Sorry, not meant as a rant or personal attack to anyone.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 15 at 2015 4:32 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 15 Sep 2015 04:32:32 -0400

Yes on Reviewing the effectiveness and possibly looking into its presentation. Please no more mandatory training. I'm ethics, MRT, SHARP, EEO, PII, and 50 others 350-1'd to death. No need to stop this fine training but my good multiple times a year. SHEESH and OH My FRIGGEN God, ENOUGH ALREADY! Yup, Guess I need to head back to Sensitivity training. Darn it!