Do we need a fence to stop illegal trespassing into the United States?

2016-05-22T12:07:48-04:00

A relative sent me a copy of an essay claiming the Missouri didn't have any illegal aliens residing in the state because of the foresight of their government in (1) making English the state's official language and (2) precluding illegals from drawing welfare and education benefits. Naturally, I had to check this out and found that it was "Mostly True". Of course, there are different interpretations of "the facts". You should check them out for yourself.

https://www.google.com/#q=are+there+illegals+in+missouri

Generally, it seems that we could save ourselves a lot of trouble if we adopted the Missouri plan. It might even save us the cost of building "The Wall".

BTW, I wanted to tag this discussion as "Illegal Aliens" but no such category exists. I didn't want to tag it "Immigrants" or "Immigration" because illegal aliens aren't immigrants, not by any definition of the word.

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Response by SGT John " Mac " McConnell made May 22 at 2016 12:13 PM

2016-05-22T12:13:30-04:00

No ! Just need to enforce the laws we already have..

Response by MCPO Roger Collins made May 22 at 2016 12:20 PM

2016-05-22T12:20:20-04:00

Does the Vatican have walls? Does the White House have walls? Did the wall work in Berlin for decades? Yes, they work in some instances, but when you are talking about 2200 miles with insurmountable terrain, Native American sovereign lands and the ability to tunnel under any fence, or, as proven, climb over existing fences/walls, it is not feasible. What has to be done is find a way to stop the magnets drawing illegals, by that, I mean all illegal alien/immigrants to our country. Trump made a big mistake focusing on Mexicans. They compromise about 60% of the illegal population. The issue is valid, but the identifying of a single group of people was a major error.

Response by COL Ted Mc made May 22 at 2016 12:48 PM

2016-05-22T12:48:21-04:00

CPT Jack Durish - Captain; I agree that it should be up to a person who is claiming any benefit from the government to establish that they are actually entitled to that benefit.

If a person is illegally in the United States of America and is claiming a government benefit, then the government has the right to mitigation and, in this case, that would involve removing the claimant from a position where they are acting illegally.

Response by MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P made May 22 at 2016 1:02 PM

2016-05-22T13:02:40-04:00

I would rather see us focus on "common sense" solutions to illegal immigration. Such as English as the language of the government, no benefits for non-citizens, eliminate the "anchor baby" rule, etc.

I'm not opposed to LEGAL immigration (my own family is predominately Dutch-German on my father's side and Scots-Irish on my mother's side). I just don't see why we, as a Nation, tolerate someone breaking into our house, taking our hard-earned possessions, and then demand we pay for their livelihood.

Response by SGT Paul Mackay made May 22 at 2016 1:04 PM

2016-05-22T13:04:39-04:00

yes

Response by SN Greg Wright made May 22 at 2016 1:17 PM

2016-05-22T13:17:54-04:00

A Mexican wall is the most inane idea to ever catch on in Big Gubberment. Humans are monkeys. They will climb or dig, or -- get this -- simply take a five-minute boat ride in either pond to circumvent the end of the wall.

Dumb, dumb, dumb idea. Illegal aliens are a problem to be sure, but a wall is not the answer.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made May 22 at 2016 2:15 PM

2016-05-22T14:15:26-04:00

No, just stop the incentives for coming in. Take away automatic citizenship. Enforce taxation at the point of wages or at payment of purchase. Any good paying job should ensure no SSN fraud as well as housing. Thus ensuring that he work that we do want to farm out to other countries is the only work available.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made May 22 at 2016 3:08 PM

2016-05-22T15:08:59-04:00

We need something to ensure that all who enter the US do it through legal means. Assimilation to the extent of learning the language would save a lot of heart ache. We have had many bills presented to congress, why not one for language. I do not see how a wall could hurt, there are obviously places where a wall is not feasible but that is where the Border Patrol comes into play. Our country needs to make a move in many areas before we begin to see the issues in the streets and neighborhoods that Europe is currently experiencing. God Bless The United States!

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made May 22 at 2016 3:17 PM

2016-05-22T15:17:30-04:00

My apologies for a second shot at this! If the many generations who came to the US had not learned english (as did my family) we would never have been able to accomplish the feats that this nation has. Imagine service mebers speaking multiple languages but not the same, imagine the same for polie, fire, community service. A common language would help to solve many issues, we say that we have cultural divides and a lack of understanding of one another, maybe just maybe, it starts with a common language.

Sorry for the chatter.

Response by SGT Larry Michael Bleckler II made May 22 at 2016 6:40 PM

2016-05-22T18:40:12-04:00

I am a Missourian yes the Missouri constitution and law is a good and it is strictly upheld, the state doesn't have illegal aliens they have to obtain a work visa and report frequently to the proper officials and employers must report as well or go out of business. There are very few middle eastern, Asians etc. here and it takes a deep background check and they must work on becoming a citizen of the U.S.A. and pass the exam. No terrorist attacks have happened here and there most likely will not happen almost everyone in Missouri has a C.C.W. and now we have the open carry law which keeps all inline. I wish we could keep the guns out of the felons hands the same way.

Response by SPC George Rudenko made May 22 at 2016 8:21 PM

2016-05-22T20:21:04-04:00

Border/customs guy chiming in. People will go to where the jobs are. And right now, companies from Mom and Pop shops to multi national corporations hire illegal immigrants on purpose because of the cheap labor and no "costs". As America clamps down on the companies, some MOVE to Mexico, China, etc. Keep in mind, the Fed is the ONLY entity that can enforce immigration.

That said. Illegal immigrants, undocumented aliens, use any wording you wish arrive in the USA three ways, ground, sea, and air. Yes, I have dealt with ALL of these. Everyone talks about "reform" but what reform? 17 million illegal immigrants, what do you do with them? America would have to triple CIS and ICE DRO, if you think of deporting MORE than the 1 million a year we average. 300 million Americans, 300 million opinions. We CAN NOT deport 10 million over the next years, the infrastructure does not exist. Can right side, and left side understand this? NO! Illegal immigration is politics, and the politicians in DC do not care one iota about these people. That is why this is drawn out so long. DC caters to votes. That is all.

Some of the illegal immigrants here in the USA must be deported. Violent felonies, ID theft, trafficking, illegal businesses... you can make an exhaustive list can't you?

My spin. As we are deporting the worst we establish that those allowed to stay in the USA who do not qualify for asylum or refugee status can not EVER become citizens, they can only become lawful permanent residents. BUT, their children can become citizens.

Put a wall wherever you want, I see tunnels hundreds of yards long... kinda like what's happening in Israel come to think of it.

Response by PO2 Gm Parada made May 22 at 2016 8:24 PM

2016-05-22T20:24:45-04:00

Yes. This is a huge issue for land owner like Myself on Texas border...

Response by SGM Mikel Dawson made May 22 at 2016 8:33 PM

2016-05-22T20:33:20-04:00

Borders, Language, Culture. These three things help make a country. List English as official language, take away all the freebees would be great starts. But this should have been doing YEARS ago.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made May 22 at 2016 11:51 PM

2016-05-22T23:51:46-04:00

Just a thought on 'walls.' Everyone, including Trump, believes the wall should be physical in nature, built along our southern border. To me, a wall is a barrier and can be physical or a manifestation (like the wall a runner hits during a marathon). So, there should be both types of 'walls.' Physically, we should secure our border with material, men and the means to keep unwanted people, drugs, etc. out of our country. But, we should also have a wall that makes those desiring to illegally enter our country, hit a wall. The metaphysical wall should be made of laws, that are clear, universal and enforced at every level. These laws could include the following:
1. If anyone should enter or remain in our country illegally, they are ineligible for employment by any person, company or government agency. If found to be employed by an individual or company, the employer will lose their license to do business within the borders of the United States, as well as with private or public customers, for a duration of 1 year. If an employer is found to violate this measure more than once, the company will be seized and sold to the highest bidder at a public auction (lock, stock and barrel).
2. If anyone should enter or remain in our country illegally, they are ineligible for any government assistance (foodstamps, welfare, unemployment, housing, education, Social Security, Medicare/Medicaid, etc.). Any illegal immigrant found to be receiving government benefits will be charged with fraud and a bill for reimbursement sent to the country of origin.
3. All countries with citizens illegally residing in our country, will be notified that they must remove their citizens within 90 days or forfeit all current and future US government provided benefits (military aid and assistance, foreign aid, favored trade status, etc.). Additionally, a bill seeking reimbursement for the cost of providing for illegal immigrants will be submitted to these same countries.
4. Any elected or unelected government official found to have violated the above laws will be charged with treason and upon a finding of guilt, will serve no less than 10 years in prison and upon release, loss of citizenship and relocation to a foreign country of the US government's choosing.

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made May 23 at 2016 1:01 AM

2016-05-23T01:01:17-04:00

Not a fence, no. But a thirty-foot, ten-foot thick, concrete wall, topped with twenty feet of concertina wire would do it.

Response by Cpl Mike Belsito made May 23 at 2016 5:56 AM

2016-05-23T05:56:01-04:00

Terrorist illegally crossing the boarder don't care about of the language in Missouri nor do they care about welfare.

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made May 23 at 2016 2:21 PM

2016-05-23T14:21:46-04:00

A wall in and of itself is not the best countermeasure because it is one of the easiest to overcome. Particularly if you are not aggressive about manning and protecting it, which we aren't (imagine the slow down of illegals we would get if we planted land mines and authorized deadly force...but that will never happen). Other countermeasures, to supplement that wall, must also be emplaced. That means aggressively going after employers who use illegals, taking away the support structures that allows illegals to live here, and change the attitude that it's okay for folks to be here without our permission.