Do we need a different Oath when it comes to officers and enlisted supporting the Constitution at the time we join the service?

CMDCM Gene Treants — Sun, 17 Sep 2017 18:01:45 -0400

Since we just celebrated Constitution Day, it raised a question that I have often pondered, “Why are there difference in the Officer's Oath and Enlisted oath when we join the military?”
Officer's Oath: “I, (state your name), having been appointed a (rank) in the United States (branch of service), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the office upon which I am about to enter. So help me God.”
And the Enlisted Oath: “I, (state your name), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.”
One of the reasons given, as I read many different references and source materials is that this keeps officers from having to swear allegiance to any individual or to obey any orders that might be illegal. It also makes sure that Enlisted people know that they must obey orders from superiors. I must ask, are our Enlisted troops so unintelligent today that they must take an oath to obey orders from “officers” and only “officers” appointed over them.
Look at the oath for Enlisted again, there is no provision for any Enlisted person to ever obey the orders of another Enlisted person. Do any of the other Enlisted people remember having classes in boot camp that explained the oath of enlistment? I do. The class then went on to explain part of the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ). Article 90 of the UCMJ covers obeying orders from Superior Officers and that such orders MUST be LEGAL. Article 91 of the UCMJ covers Orders from Warrant Officers, Noncommissioned Officers, or Petty Officers.
SO, here is the real reason for my rambling, in today’s Military do we need a different oath for Officers and Enlisted of would one suffice? I respectfully submit that one would and it sould read like this – very much like the Officer’s Oath of today:

“I, (state your name), having been appointed a Member of the United States (branch of service), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the position upon which I am about to enter. (So help me God. optional)”

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Sep 17 at 2017 6:31 PM

CPT Jack Durish — Sun, 17 Sep 2017 18:31:09 -0400

I administered the oath to enlisted personnel countless times in Vietnam. (The Division Enlistment Officer and I shared a hooch and he was always out and about when his "clients" showed up to reup) I remember the oath then included the words "...lawful orders..." but seem to have disappeared. However, if you read various legal opinions, it is assumed that no one, officer or enlisted, is obligated to obey unlawful orders. As to why the oaths are different, it is primarily because their "agreements" are different. Enlisted personnel sign a contract for services. Warrant officers are issued a warrant and commissioned officers... well they are "commissioned" by Congress and the President to represent the government. They have innumerable rights and responsibilities that enlisted personnel don't have. Commissioned officers are agents of the US government. They may administer oaths, certify documents (like a notary public) and more. Even more, commissioned officers, like the President, take responsibility (or the good ones do) for the acts of the agencies/units they lead.

Response by CPO Glenn Moss made Sep 17 at 2017 6:46 PM

CPO Glenn Moss — Sun, 17 Sep 2017 18:46:11 -0400

The officer and enlisted oaths are different because there is a difference in the onus between them.

Officers are appointed, they're not enlisted...and they're appointed OVER the enlisted. And whereas enlisted have a duty to follow the lawful orders of the officers appointed over them, officers have a duty to ensure their orders are, in fact lawful in the first place.

This is because, contrary to popular belief among many, not every situation is covered under the laws, rules, and regulation. But the onus is nonetheless upon the officers to make sure their orders ARE lawful.

I submit that there is no need for a "different oath", officer or enlisted. Rather, there is a need for people to UPHOLD the oath they swear in the first place.

This is really a matter of honor because regardless of the words of the oath, it's only as good as those who are taking it.

A person's honor is bound up in their freely given word. If one cannot be true to one's freely given word, then that person has no honor...and no amount of words in any oath will change that.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 17 at 2017 7:11 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 17 Sep 2017 19:11:33 -0400

Do we need a different oath...No...is this an issue...No. We have always had a different oath for officers and enlisted. I don't see this changing any time soon there is no need.

Response by LTJG Richard Bruce made Sep 18 at 2017 12:00 AM

LTJG Richard Bruce — Mon, 18 Sep 2017 00:00:20 -0400

Yes, Oaths need to be different. I have taken both. Officers hold an "office" whereas enlisted fulfill a contract of service. A commissioned officer's "office" comes with a lot of legal baggage that enlisted do not have. Because of the power of this "office" not succumbing to political or civilian pressures is vital to serving the public. That is the main reason officers do not swear obeisance to the President. That's not saying that there will be negative consequences, but an honest officer can go home with a clean sword.

Response by MSgt Neil Greenfield made May 10 at 2019 11:52 AM

MSgt Neil Greenfield — Fri, 10 May 2019 11:52:30 -0400

Have you ever noticed how the Naturalized Citizen Oath of the US is written as well? Very closely (imho) follows the oaths that we take. That’s one of the reasons that I feel that non-citizens enlisting and serve honorably should be granted citizenship.

https://www.uscis.gov/us-citizenship/naturalization-test/naturalization-oath-allegiance-united-states-america

"I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God."

Naturalization Oath of Allegiance to the United States of America

Oath"I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty, of whom or which I have her

Response by SSG Phil Miller made May 10 at 2019 6:20 PM

SSG Phil Miller — Fri, 10 May 2019 18:20:54 -0400

I find it odd that many who take those oaths have never read the constitution. When I was a police officer I was debating another officer about freedom of religion while he claimed separation of church and state was in the constitution. This shocked me since he was not only an officer, but an investigator and an Air Force veteran.
I asked him if he had even, read the constitution he had sworn an oath to.
He had not.

Response by PO3 Richard Endress made Jul 24 at 2020 11:04 PM

PO3 Richard Endress — Fri, 24 Jul 2020 23:04:22 -0400

I agree that the newer version of the Oath more palatable than the traditional one. We were instructed in "Legal" orders and expected to guide our conduct according to UCMJ. I dislike the reference to "the President," even though he is Commander in Chief. It smacks of "Personality Cult.". We are a nation of laws, not personalities.