Do the ends ever justify the means?

PO1 John Meyer, CPC — Sat, 25 Apr 2015 15:43:14 -0400

In a professional setting, do the ends justify the means?

While I know the answer to this question, I'm having an ethical dilemma.

I ask because I'm being asked to withhold negative information about a prospective employee. I'm also being asked to tell how good of an employee this person will make, even though I know for a fact, this person would not make a good employee due to some past and more recent issues.

I'm having an ethical dilemma because the individuals in question are members of my family (in-laws).

If I say nothing but good things, I make the in-laws and the wife happy, but run the risk of having my reputation tarnished when this individual doesn't work out.

On the other hand, if I tell the truth, I will make the wife and her family mad at me as it might mean this person doesn't get the job.

For the moment (as far as I know), no one here where I work knows that I'm related to this prospective employee because no one has mentioned it.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 25 at 2015 3:47 PM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 25 Apr 2015 15:47:36 -0400

What would you expect if the situation was reversed?

Sometimes it may be better to not answer.

Response by 1LT Nick Kidwell made Apr 25 at 2015 4:01 PM

1LT Nick Kidwell — Sat, 25 Apr 2015 16:01:01 -0400

Easy wrong always looks better than the hard right.

Do the right thing, and if the missus and her family can't appreciate your integrity, then I would question theirs.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 25 at 2015 4:09 PM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 25 Apr 2015 16:09:38 -0400

One of the very few things no one can take from you is your integrity. But, if you give it away it is very hard to get back.

Response by Cpl Christopher Bishop made Apr 25 at 2015 4:43 PM

Cpl Christopher Bishop — Sat, 25 Apr 2015 16:43:44 -0400

You have no responsibilities regarding the possible fact your in-laws may not make great employees. None.

If you get canned for having integrity, then you weren't in the right place to begin with.

Response by Sgt Charles A Vroman Jr made Apr 25 at 2015 4:44 PM

Sgt Charles A Vroman Jr — Sat, 25 Apr 2015 16:44:31 -0400

In my humble opinion, the truth is always the best path to follow. Family may get mad, but usually they'll get over it. If they don't, well then that's their loss. Your reputation in the working civilian world and your work ethic are usually the only things that keep you employed these days. I see no sense in putting your family's livelihood in jeapardy for any reason. Do the right thing, tell your employer what you really think about the situation and go from there. Just do not hide the fact that this potential employee is related by marriage or that he/she would not be a good candidate for employment at your company. Your integrity is who you are. Maintain it with dignity.

Response by MCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 25 at 2015 5:08 PM

MCPO Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 25 Apr 2015 17:08:58 -0400

I'm going to have to say that, in this case (as in most), telling the truth is best. When the time comes that the family calls you out - turn it on them.

"Okay, let's say that (person in question) wants to go to work for YOU. Will YOU want them working for you? Will YOU accept their behavior?"

When they say, "But we can put them in a spot where they can do no harm," you can just say, "Great, if you have SO much money and are SO successful that you can waste money for a position like that, then _I_ want that job. Give me that paycheck, and I won't cause a problem - I'll just sit at home and collect my pay and use my benefits."

That should shut them up.

HOWEVER... the question arises: _WILL_ the family find out? You could backdoor the situation and go to the company personally - and tell them face to face. Tell them WHY you want to do it this way. That way the family will see you be "nice" to the loser, and the best thing for everyone will be done.

Response by 1SG Steven Stankovich made Apr 25 at 2015 5:10 PM

1SG Steven Stankovich — Sat, 25 Apr 2015 17:10:08 -0400

PO1 John Meyer, CPC, that is a very tough ethical dilemma that you have before you. I have read the comments already listed, and I don't think that I can add anything new to what has already been given. I can reiterate some though. At the end of the day, your integrity is what you have. Yes, family ranks right up there, and I may get chided for saying this, but family can be either an extenuating or a mitigating factor in any decision you make, but at the end of the day, regardless if your family stands by you or not, you are the one who has to look into the mirror and answer whether or not you did right today. The decision is yours. What can you live with?

Response by PO2 Kevin LaCroix made Apr 25 at 2015 5:10 PM

PO2 Kevin LaCroix — Sat, 25 Apr 2015 17:10:32 -0400

I believe that you know the answer for yourself. I believe it is wrong for you wife and her family to pressure you into compromising your reputation.

Response by CW5 Jim Steddum made Apr 25 at 2015 5:19 PM

CW5 Jim Steddum — Sat, 25 Apr 2015 17:19:13 -0400

Not sure how to answer the question as asked; honesty may be painful, but will never come back to bite you.

Response by CW5 Jim Steddum made Apr 25 at 2015 5:21 PM

CW5 Jim Steddum — Sat, 25 Apr 2015 17:21:13 -0400

If you do withhold the negative, s/he still might not get hired.

Response by SPC David Shaffer made Apr 25 at 2015 5:51 PM

SPC David Shaffer — Sat, 25 Apr 2015 17:51:53 -0400

Honest is always the best policy.

Response by Sgt Jay Jones made Apr 25 at 2015 5:56 PM

Sgt Jay Jones — Sat, 25 Apr 2015 17:56:38 -0400

I say tell the truth. A lie doesn't care who tells it. You have to look at yourself in the mirror. If you can't look at yourself in the mirror and respect what you see. How do you expect your wife to look at you and respect you. It boils down to if you want your wife and family questioning if everything you tell them is the truth or not.

Don't forget, you never have to try and remember what you said, when you told the truth. If you tell one lie, you have to tell another to cover up that lie!

Response by SGT Michael Touchet made Apr 25 at 2015 7:23 PM

SGT Michael Touchet — Sat, 25 Apr 2015 19:23:47 -0400

Be assured that if you give a good recommendation and the person doesn't perform well then it will surely be a reflection on you, thus you stand to lose creditability and your integrity.

Response by SrA Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 25 at 2015 7:33 PM

SrA Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 25 Apr 2015 19:33:55 -0400

I believe your job could be at stake here. How would you provide for your family if you get terminated in the future or lose your credibility for referring an employee whom was not worthy?

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Apr 25 at 2015 8:09 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Sat, 25 Apr 2015 20:09:45 -0400

If you partake in this scheme it means you are corrupt as well. When I promise something or say something, I want my word to be gold. What you are facing is moral courage in a situation where both outcomes are unsavory. Let the truth set you free. Maybe you can make a deal with the hiring authority to not divulge anything about your feelings. Moral courage!

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Apr 25 at 2015 8:46 PM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Sat, 25 Apr 2015 20:46:39 -0400

You can always claim conflict of interest, which is true. "I'm related to him. I cannot give an unbiased opinion." End of discussion. End of ethical dilemma.

Response by CPT Aaron Kletzing made Apr 25 at 2015 8:52 PM

CPT Aaron Kletzing — Sat, 25 Apr 2015 20:52:01 -0400

You should tell the truth.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 25 at 2015 9:02 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 25 Apr 2015 21:02:11 -0400

Man, the dreaded in law referral. I feel for you. i would tell the truth. He is a family member and you dont want to influence the decision to hire him. If you must give an opinion, the game is up. Tell the truth. Your life will be uncomfortable at home for a while, but word will spread through the family that when it comes to work, you dont cut any slack. And three or four jobs later most of the family will be over any slight they thinktou did. Good luck

Response by COL Ted Mc made Apr 26 at 2015 12:58 PM

COL Ted Mc — Sun, 26 Apr 2015 12:58:18 -0400

In your case it would appear that you might be justified in saying "I would not hire this person again but I cannot release any more information because of privacy issues.".

Response by SPC David S. made Apr 26 at 2015 1:06 PM

SPC David S. — Sun, 26 Apr 2015 13:06:09 -0400

Be honest but don't divulge answers to questions that weren't asked. Best I can think of to tell you. You will still be able to hold on to, at least, most of your integrity and shouldn't make the miss' family, too, upset either.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 26 at 2015 1:12 PM

Maj Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 26 Apr 2015 13:12:27 -0400

Tell your employer that you have a conflict of interest due to your relation to the person.

Response by SSG Eric Trace made Apr 26 at 2015 1:21 PM

SSG Eric Trace — Sun, 26 Apr 2015 13:21:05 -0400

No one is worth losing your credibility over and I mean NO ONE! Respect is a two way street, someone's not giving you the Respect you deserve in your family if they are asking you to withhold information, two as a former Business owner and Head of HR, I know for a fact that when that person does not work out, you and I would have a conversation and you both would be carpooling together to the Unemployment Office.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 26 at 2015 2:01 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 26 Apr 2015 14:01:42 -0400

To answer the overall question, ends should never justify means. If ends justified means that would mean that nuking the entire world in effort to bring about the extinction of humanity would be a justifiable act to bring about "world peace." The end of war forever, but at what price? It's obviously an extreme example, but the logic follows to any scenario.

To provide advice for your specific scenario, if you're not being called as a personal reference (as opposed to a professional reference) then you could use your family connection as an excuse to recuse yourself. Just be up front that you don't feel comfortable and mention that there's a conflict of interest for you. If you're only being called as a personal reference then you have more leeway to dance around any negative aspects and only focus on the positive personal aspects of the individual. Some may consider this "lying by omission," but in my opinion it's simply doing what needs to be done to keep your integrity intact while simultaneously appeasing your family.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 26 at 2015 2:41 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 26 Apr 2015 14:41:08 -0400

If you do this, sure your wife and her family will temporarily be happy but your professional credibility will be shot. As was said before, the only person who can take your integrity fro you is you

Response by PO1 John Meyer, CPC made May 3 at 2015 6:00 AM

PO1 John Meyer, CPC — Sun, 03 May 2015 06:00:20 -0400

Thank you all for the responses that you have given.

The job opening has been filled and I wasn't asked about the in-law.

I didn't think I would have been asked since I am related to this person and I know most employers won't ask family about family.

Response by PO1 John Miller made May 3 at 2015 6:10 AM

PO1 John Miller — Sun, 03 May 2015 06:10:59 -0400

TSgt Hunter Logan makes a very valid point. Your family shouldn't even know if your in-law doesn't get the job because of your say-so. It's been my experience that employers do not have to give a reason why a candidate wasn't selected for a job.

Let me ask you this though. Are you in a position to hire this person or recommend they be hired? If you did divulge the negative information, would the people who you tell it to want or need to know how you got that information?

At the end of the day though, your integrity and reputation are at stake, not to mention possibly your own job. Would your wife be happy if you withheld the information, but it somehow came out anyway and you lost your job as a result of not giving it up?

There's a lot of bad juju that I can see coming from this situation. Whatever decision you make, good luck!

Response by SFC Stephen King made May 3 at 2015 6:47 AM

SFC Stephen King — Sun, 03 May 2015 06:47:18 -0400

Although I have not been in your situation I believe it is matter of being true to yourself. Do what you feel is right and be prepared for the cconsequence's of your action. Now if your conundrum is with a value of family first and truth of a person's character you have to choose.

Response by LTC Kevin B. made Jun 14 at 2015 10:08 PM

LTC Kevin B. — Sun, 14 Jun 2015 22:08:09 -0400

Comments removed. Please ignore.

Response by LTC Bink Romanick made Jun 14 at 2015 10:16 PM

LTC Bink Romanick — Sun, 14 Jun 2015 22:16:27 -0400

Do the right thing, even when no one Is looking.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 14 at 2015 10:35 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 14 Jun 2015 22:35:47 -0400

The ends justifying the means can be abused, but in this specific situation, if no one where you work knows you're related to the prospective employee, then say nothing.

Response by SPC Thomas Baldwin made Jun 15 at 2015 12:19 AM

SPC Thomas Baldwin — Mon, 15 Jun 2015 00:19:18 -0400

This is hard one as in the case above if they do find out your related you loss of integrity in the work place can not be earned back.

Response by MSgt Curtis Ellis made Aug 21 at 2015 5:45 PM

MSgt Curtis Ellis — Fri, 21 Aug 2015 17:45:43 -0400

Insist to "whomever" this is a conflict of interest for you and they will have to get someone else to pass on this information. Anyone should understand this. And once you know you are off the hook, let the perspective employer know whats up with (?). That way you didn't lie in either case, your integrity remains in tact, and all is right again with the world.
As far as your survey question, as it pertains to this, the answer is "No", however, depending on the circumstances surrounding an issue, that answer could just as easily be "Yes". It sucks, and it's one you have to live/be comfortable with.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Aug 21 at 2015 6:10 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Fri, 21 Aug 2015 18:10:08 -0400

The choice is simple and should already decide your COA. You need to have integrity, and your word should be gold, because sometimes integrity is all you have left. Watch from that family because they don't sound like scruples people.

Response by LCDR Rabbah Rona Matlow made Aug 21 at 2015 6:27 PM

LCDR Rabbah Rona Matlow — Fri, 21 Aug 2015 18:27:44 -0400

Being told to lie about a prospective employee, who is the boss's favorite, is a bad deal for you. No matter what you do, you will get hurt.

I would start updating my resume if I were you...

Response by PO1 John Meyer, CPC made Aug 22 at 2015 12:27 PM

PO1 John Meyer, CPC — Sat, 22 Aug 2015 12:27:00 -0400

It's been a while since I originally posted this question and I was never ask, yet.... it's coming up again for the same person. I'm not going to say anything in support nor against this person. I'm just going to say I have a conflict of interest because I'm related to him and leave it at that, in case I'm asked.

Response by SSgt Boyd Herrst made Jun 5 at 2018 8:50 PM

SSgt Boyd Herrst — Tue, 05 Jun 2018 20:50:22 -0400

It’s the ol’ “between a rock and a hard place”.... I had a cousin about 3x removed.. that I was asked by some relatives to vouch for also... I just couldn’t subnormal perjury and let me ruin me and my rep. And neither should you because you may never be able to repair your Reputation, PO1 John Meyer.. you know the rest of the story... even though they don’t know your connnected.. that chance could happen...