Do I meet the requirements for a PME waiver?

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 06 Dec 2015 13:48:45 -0500

***UPDATE*** My Shirt has reached out to me and we're going to meet on Friday to discuss all of my options. I want to thank everyone who has replied so far, you've all been very helpful!

***ORIGINAL POST***
I've done the research with one of my TSgts, look at the AFIs, etc. Here's my situation: I have a line number for Staff and should be putting on in March (if the increments stay about the same). I will be unable to attend the local ALS classes in January AND February due to my retraining conflicting with the dates. On top of that, I have already received my PCS notification and my RNLTD is the end of May. If I was able to make the ALS class in April, I would not graduate until 10 days before my RNLTD, not giving me a lot of time to out-process and take care of all my Household Goods. My husband will also be deployed during this time period, adding that much more stress about doing all this by myself. I've already routed the request to push up my Projected Departure Date to the beginning of April so I can soley focus on out-processing and moving after I graduate tech school. When I posed the waiver question to someone in my leadership, she was extremely standoffish and questioning what my reasoning was in the first place, even after explaining what I had going on. All she had to say was "I don't believe SrA should put on Staff before attending ALS." My TSgt even told her she was going to try to get in touch with my gaining First Shirt to see if there was any availability at my new base so I can attend class as soon as I get there. I'm not trying to be some whiny airman, I'm just hoping someone else can give me some more insight. Best case scenario if my waiver doesn't get Wing CC approval, I have to wait a couple months to put on. Worst case scenario, it may be up to 6 months. It's just disheartening when someone in my leadership tries to shoot me down before the waiver is even being routed. I personally don't see the harm in trying to see what the Wing CC says. I apologize that this is so long, I appreciate any advice anyone has to offer.

Response by SrA David Steyer made Dec 6 at 2015 1:55 PM

SrA David Steyer — Sun, 06 Dec 2015 13:55:48 -0500

I don't know the exact answer, and the whole "I don't believe SrA should put SSgt on before ALS" is garbage. I had a couple of Staff's in my ALS class. Just be aware if you are a SSgt in ALS you may be a class leader, and don't think that it will help you win awards, because some of the SrA (who were not SSgt selects or put on during the class) were sharp and won awards and if they didn't, some of the people who didn't win awards were better students and leaders than those that did. I'm a year removed from ALS and a few weeks from the military so my memory is hazy. In the end you all get DG - Done Graduated. I do think one of the SSgt's in my class put it on while deployed (or right when he came home) and went to the next class.

If you don't get assistance from your leadership, is there an ALS at your base? They may know a bit more.

Response by COL Mikel J. Burroughs made Dec 6 at 2015 2:00 PM

COL Mikel J. Burroughs — Sun, 06 Dec 2015 14:00:08 -0500

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member Sorry I can't help you - just an Old Army Dog - Try TSgt Hunter Logan She may be able to answer your question! Good Luck

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 6 at 2015 2:44 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 06 Dec 2015 14:44:34 -0500

You should be able to process the waiver request at the very least. I would be interested to know who the person in leadership was that was being negative toward it. I understand that under most situations, those waivers aren't just "handed out" (had a PJ in my ALS class who was deployed when he was to put on/attend ALS, but his CC wouldn't approve the waiver since he felt that an NCO should complete PME prior to pin-on), but you do have some extenuating circumstances... Retraining dates, and PCS leaving you unable to attend PME... Unfortunately, this may also not be waiverable criteria, and the approving authority may have the same outlook on allowing such a waiver to be approved as my old buddy. I would say definitely apply for the waiver and see where it goes, but you could be unlucky and get stuck with having to wait. If you do have to wait to pin-on, I believe you get back-paid to the date that you were supposed to originally put on SSgt. Hope this info help co at the very least clarify. And please tell me it wasn't the Shirt that was acting that way...

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 6 at 2015 2:45 PM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 06 Dec 2015 14:45:15 -0500

I am also of the belief that required PME should be complete prior to assuming the next grade. However, I am more realistic and know that is not always possible. The worst that could happen, is you don't put on SSgt until you meet all the requirements (PME included). However, if Big Blue holds your stripe until you complete PME, you would get back-pay to the date you should have pinned on. That could come in handy when moving to a new base. Your best option may be to push your RNLTD to the right. Try getting a hold of your gaining unit. You, not your TSgt. This is your career. You should have a sponsor already that could provide contact information. Good Luck!

Response by TSgt Gwen Walcott made Dec 6 at 2015 3:14 PM

TSgt Gwen Walcott — Sun, 06 Dec 2015 15:14:36 -0500

Unless things have changed, I'm sure that you can get the course delay waived. Putting on the stripe, however, might also be delayed (get your number bumped).
RNTLD: I don't know about that one. They have ALWAYS been touchy about that (which is why my stripes stopped at 5 instead of the 6 my line number said I should have). That one could present a problem.

Response by TSgt Joshua Copeland made Dec 6 at 2015 4:16 PM

TSgt Joshua Copeland — Sun, 06 Dec 2015 16:16:46 -0500

Sounds like you have a strong case for a PME waiver. You will have to convince your Shirt and Sq Commander who in turn will request the approval of the Wing/CC. They are harder to get now then they were just a few years ago. As long as you haven't defered for another reason before it should easy enough to get your Unit CC on board. That said, if they don't allow a waiver, you will get back pay to your actual date of rank.

Response by MSgt John Taylor made Dec 6 at 2015 7:41 PM

MSgt John Taylor — Sun, 06 Dec 2015 19:41:42 -0500

It used to be that you would hold off on sewing on until yop graduated, then it would all be retro'd (assuming that your were not at fault) Why were you not able to get an earlier spot?

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 7 at 2015 12:26 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 07 Dec 2015 00:26:21 -0500

I am just going to say this feels like you all are specking another language, silly AF speck. I would just as my favorite Airman, or Airperson, CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member would know. She knows far more about this than I.

Response by SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 7 at 2015 2:01 AM

SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 07 Dec 2015 02:01:41 -0500

Two different issues need to be addressed here. If you are scheduled to attend ALS in April, unless the procedures have changed in the last two years, the only way you can be deferred to a different class is to submit a deferment request through your unit chain of command up to your respective Wing CC.
If you are granted a deferment and are going to attend at a later date then you could submit a waiver to your squadron commander to sew SSgt on without attending ALS. If you are denied the waiver I am pretty sure your date of promotion is back dated and you are back payed as soon as you complete ALS and sew on SSgt.

Response by SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 7 at 2015 3:40 AM

SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 07 Dec 2015 03:40:22 -0500

I hear some mixing of programs in the comments. There is a deferment and then there's the promotion waiver. To defer going to ALS does take a WG/CC signed letter. The only three reasons for deferring are a) mission related: the mission would FAIL without you, and b) humanitarian: similar to the criteria in 36-2110, and c) medical: APDAPT, MEB, etc. I say this not for you SrA Brown, because you've looked this up already, but for everyone else. Hopefully the "other deferments" paragraph will help even though the examples are for poor behavior.
As far as the "disheartening" you feel, it is understandable. NCOs unfortunately would rather say no because a yes is more difficult. Some may be scared to push something up to the WG/CC. I would stress the stress you'll be in and how that will impact your successful completion of the course.

I hope it all works out for you!

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 7 at 2015 7:05 AM

Maj Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 07 Dec 2015 07:05:50 -0500

I don't know why your leadership is making such a big deal of it. We had 5 SSgts in my ALS class. Waivers are a normal thing.

Response by CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 8 at 2015 6:39 AM

CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 08 Dec 2015 06:39:37 -0500

As a former first sergeant, I can tell you that a waiver is normally a bad idea for a couple of reasons. 1) The waiver is only good for 179 days so if for some reason you do not complete ALS in that time period, you would have to go back to SrA. 2) If for some reason you do fail out of the course or are dismissed, you would automatically lose your stripe and line number and have to start over with the promotion process. I've only personally dealt with #2 and it was a traumatic event for that young man when he could have kept his line number and received back pay had he not been put in for a waiver. I too believe it would be a rare case to allow someone to pin on SSgt without the required PME. Why would I allow someone to put on a stripe they are not qualified for? You can't supervise and also the Air Force says you have to complete ALS prior to sew on. Congratulations on your promotion and best of luck in your new AFSC.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 8 at 2015 12:25 PM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 08 Dec 2015 12:25:56 -0500

While it sounds like you have a strong case, it will come down to your commander's decision. I don't want to scaremonger or anything, but I know of at least three people that had SSgt withheld until completion of ALS due to them being deployed at the time. I also know that if manning dictates, they will send you to ALS regardless, but again this is depending on your command. My previous base sent me to ALS at such time that I graduated 7 days before my fly-out date, my wife had already left for CONUS, and I had to separate my TMO and prepare for an unaccompanied tour to Korea, while relocating her and our dog to our HOR under self-procure travel orders. It's unfortunate and unfair, but sometimes you'll just have to shoulder through. You can manage. It may not seem like it, but you can manage.

Response by SrA Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 8 at 2015 5:46 PM

SrA Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 08 Dec 2015 17:46:46 -0500

You will not sew on until after ALS. I have a similar situation(deploying from January to July) and will not go to ALS until after, I will officially sew on graduation day and be back payed for when I was supposed to sew on

Response by CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 9 at 2015 11:19 AM

CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 09 Dec 2015 11:19:39 -0500

In my five years as an ALS instructor, the promotion deferment waivers were only granted for members who were deployed at the time of their promotion, prior to attending PME. You commander may see it differently. You'll probably wear SrA until you complete school and PCS, attend ALS, then you should get back pay and the DOR will be corrected.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 10 at 2015 2:09 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 10 Dec 2015 14:09:44 -0500

Back in 2000 when I had a line for SSgt and needed to attend ALS but also had orders they push my RNLTD back 30 days so I could graduate ALS and out-process. ALS is that important that they will push back a RNLTD.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 12 at 2016 9:17 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 12 May 2016 09:17:10 -0400

I was in the same position but I did not get the waiver. I completed ALS and put on over a year ago and am yet to receive my back pay. I have talked to both finace and MPF. Finace will not process the back pay unless the DOR and effective DOR match in virtual, but MPF will not change the effective date since per regulation the effective date has to match the PME graduation date. How do I go about getting my 6 months of back pay? I have heard multiple people including my leadership tell me I would receive it but no one seems to know how I can actually get it. An help would be greatly appreciated!