SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member 4392287 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I felt that my APFT was graded rather harshly. My 1SG was counting my pushups and didn&#39;t count half of them. I have never not passed my pushups so I dont know why I did now. This is technically my second failed pt test and my unit is recommending for my separation. The first APFT I did the run but that should have been a diagnostic. That one i failed the run. However this APFT i didn&#39;t pass my pushups and did the bike and aced it. Can I appeal this. 2019-02-22T18:50:50-05:00 SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member 4392287

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I felt that my APFT was graded rather harshly. My 1SG was counting my pushups and didn&#39;t count half of them. I have never not passed my pushups so I dont know why I did now. This is technically my second failed pt test and my unit is recommending for my separation. The first APFT I did the run but that should have been a diagnostic. That one i failed the run. However this APFT i didn&#39;t pass my pushups and did the bike and aced it. Can I appeal this.

2019-02-22T18:50:50-05:00 2019-02-22T18:50:50-05:00 MSG Private RallyPoint Member 4392298

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Was your 1SG counting the push ups out loud? How do you feel you were graded harshly other than your 1SG not counting half of them. Did you do the first 10 push ups correctly?

2019-02-22T18:54:32-05:00 2019-02-22T18:54:32-05:00 SSG Brian G. 4392368

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>When you don&#39;t perform the exercise correctly, it is not counted. The SM may feel they were doing them correctly but that does not make them valid. <br /><br />According to what you have said you had multiple graders, so no you have no recourse here. You can appeal to your command to maybe get another shot at a record APFT and have that count... IF you pass all events. But with two failed APFT&#39;s this sounds more like a case of a soldier being unfit physically for duty.

2019-02-22T19:29:46-05:00 2019-02-22T19:29:46-05:00 SFC Private RallyPoint Member 4392396

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>That usually means that your previous graders failed grade your push-ups to standard. Just because you&#39;ve never failed them before, doesn&#39;t mean that you were graded to the correct standard previously. Your first sergeant is saving you because if you take those weak push-ups to the test at BLC or any other ncoes course where they grade to standard, you will fail and be kicked out of the course, barred from re-enlistment, and kicked out of the army

2019-02-22T19:43:55-05:00 2019-02-22T19:43:55-05:00 CW2 Private RallyPoint Member 4392421

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>This is tough, it can go either way. Many soldiers will use the &quot;my chest was hitting the ground&quot; excuse, but that is not the measure of performance for a pushup. There are plenty of people who cannot grade pushups correctly, especially in winter with PT jackets on. Pushups are the only subjective part of the test. I would ask for a retest with a different grader of the Commander&#39;s choice, so that he will be confident in the grader&#39;s assessment.<br />Question, and I know from experience the 101 is horrible at doing it properly (even more so for people busting tape). What happened after your first failure? Were you counseled? Were you given extra PT? What action was taken after your first failure? and for that matter, what action was taken after the second one?<br />Why were you on the bike? If you can run, you shouldn&#39;t be taking an alternate event.<br /><br />On another note, you&#39;re in the 101, you shouldn&#39;t be close to passing or failing. That division is probably the most in shape division (suck it 82nd!). Though PT is an issue across the Army....because some genius decided frolicking was more important than actually running. cough:Hertling:cough.

2019-02-22T19:52:41-05:00 2019-02-22T19:52:41-05:00 1SG Private RallyPoint Member 4392675

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>You failed. I doubt the 1SG was there to test you harshly. Rather, to ensure your test was properly graded, considering:<br />You had failed a previous APFT;<br />You had a permanent profile for the event failed on the previous failed test;<br />You were taking an alternate event; and,<br />You were facing a possible chapter.<br /><br />Standard for grading FM 7-22<br />Scorer counts the correct number of repetitions out loud, repeats the last number of the correct repetitions when incorrect repetitions are performed, and verbally corrects push-up and sit-up performances.....During the push-up event, scorers sit or kneel three feet from the Soldier’s left or right shoulder at a 45-degree angle (refer to Figure A-2). A scorer’s head should be even with the Soldier’s shoulder when he is in the front-leaning rest position. <br /><br />You can use the Open Door Policy for the entire COC and NCOSC. <br />I strongly encourage you to consider owning the failures, and pleading for another test. That approach may yield another chance.<br />If you say you were graded too harshly, you will be heard, and most likely separated with the least favorable character of service for that chapter.<br /><br />As a ANCOC (SLC now) SGL, an AGR SSG(P) failed her first APFT for the sit up event (by more than 10).<br />I administered her retest under the direct supervision of the NCOA Commandant (CSM) and RCSM. She failed again. They weren&#39;t there to administer the test, and weren&#39;t there because they believed she was graded too harshly on the first test. They were there to ensure it was administered properly, and so that if complaints were filed upon her return to her unit, they had the ability to say, &quot;I was present, and personally supervised the test was administered properly.&quot;<br />Your 1SG wasn&#39;t there to grade you harshly. He was there to ensure the standard was met.

2019-02-22T21:42:24-05:00 2019-02-22T21:42:24-05:00 1SG Private RallyPoint Member 4392688

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Chest touching the ground is not a requirement. My experience is if a Soldier&#39;s chest was touching the ground they didn&#39;t have their hands properly positioned to permit their upper arms to reach parallel to the ground.<br />That, or the Soldier was trying to bounce off the ground, which isn&#39;t authorized.

2019-02-22T21:50:05-05:00 2019-02-22T21:50:05-05:00 CSM Darieus ZaGara 4392850

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>It is not likely that a 1SG would fail his Soldier on purpose. Your failure also reflects on him, the PLT Sgt and leader as well as the Commander. It is more likely that others failed to grade you properly. The best you can do for yourself is own the failure and implore your 1SG to allow you another opportunity. Thank you for your service.

2019-02-22T23:24:54-05:00 2019-02-22T23:24:54-05:00 SSG Brian G. 4393083

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Here is the thing and this is the way I have seen it done in other commands. An SM fails a record PT test, this one being graded by random training NCO X, the next one is graded by the 1st Sergeant. Why? Because THAT man or woman is the one that will be forwarding a recommendation to the commander for actions good or bad on your behalf. He has to answer to his boss as to the who, what, when, where and why of things and your failure whether it is the first time or the last falls to him. <br /><br />I don&#39;t know you, I don&#39;t know your situation but I do know that in all my years of service I have run across dozens if not more of highly dedicated professionals from all walks of life that fill the shoes of First Sergeant. And not a one of those is out to get a SM. They are there to motivate, guide, lead and mold and insure physical, mental and moral readiness for the troops they command. <br /><br />How is it that you are a PFC that cannot pass a run portion of a APFT on one and then cannot pass the pushup portion on a second?

2019-02-23T05:51:19-05:00 2019-02-23T05:51:19-05:00 SFC Casey O'Mally 4394157

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I would say yes. Ask for the 1SG to grade you or appoint a Senior NCO that (s)he would personally vouch for grading to standard..... But the 1SG graded you. <br /><br />Now, if your first fail was a diagnostic, this makes only one record fail. I recommend you get with your PSG and have him give you an NCO who knows and upholds the PU standard to train up. And get whatever ailment is keeping you from running fixed!<br /><br />When preparing to go to any one of my NCO schools, I always grabbed a peer and did a PT test for them. I had them grade me overly harsh. Make me break the plane, plus one inch, and do an extended pause when returning from rest position. Make me exceed the vertical position, and my WHOLE shoulder blade hit the ground. If I could pass for my peer under those conditions, I could not fail.<br /><br />I am not saying that is how a PT test SHOULD be graded, but if you prepare yourself to that standard, you prepare yourself for success.

2019-02-23T12:11:34-05:00 2019-02-23T12:11:34-05:00 MAJ Raúl Rovira 4394586

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>It is unfortunate that you are in this situation. How we think we did and how someone grades the event are two different expectations. Best case scenario asks for a re-test.<br /><br />In my cadet days, the NCO cadre recorded with a camera (VHS at the time) our pushups to prove a point. First, he asked us how we think we did and then showed the video. Eye opening.<br /><br />Second story, as a cadet I was not happy with an APFT score. I did pass, I thought I could have done better. I asked the cadre if I could re-do it with the makeup folks. I ended up 15 points higher. <br /><br />Last one, I was taught, again as a cadet, to always reach the minimum score of pushups and situps by the time the 1st-minute hits.<br /><br />I tell these stories to highlight how I never allowed myself to be in a position where I was not ready to pass an APFT. NCOs taught me that.<br /><br />Back to you, ask for a retest if they let you and work your ass off to never be on the pass/fail fence again. If not, you may have to come to terms with separation.

2019-02-23T15:17:17-05:00 2019-02-23T15:17:17-05:00 LTC Ken Connolly 4394689

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>If you came that close to passing/failing the AFPT, then perhaps you were not prepared enough to pass it without question. The only appeals, I am aware of, are a medical condition or retake soonest. Have your unit physical trainer give you some pointers on how to do a push up to Army standards. Then perhaps see if you can get a temporary reprieve to work with trainer to improve you physical condition to meet and maintain Army physical standards. However, this was your second chance. So a third one may not be in the books. Good luck.

2019-02-23T16:03:09-05:00 2019-02-23T16:03:09-05:00 SFC Private RallyPoint Member 4395141

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Most likely cause you were never graded properly and he did. When APFT’s are graded harshly it’s generally because they were graded correctly...

2019-02-23T18:53:52-05:00 2019-02-23T18:53:52-05:00 LTC Peter Hartman 4396247

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I don&#39;t think there is an official appeal policy. The new physical fitness test starts up soon. That will be much harder from what I have read about it.

2019-02-24T06:58:26-05:00 2019-02-24T06:58:26-05:00 SSG Private RallyPoint Member 4397035

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>If you fail your first record PT test your are barred and flagged. You have a 180 day assessment period, you will take another PT test in 90 days, if you fail that one you have another 90 days and you will take a third test. After that 180 day period if you haven&#39;t passed a PT test you will be separated from the Army

2019-02-24T12:23:38-05:00 2019-02-24T12:23:38-05:00 1SG Bill Farmerie 4400751

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>The standards are not subjective. Did you ask why the pushups were not being counted? I seriously doubt your 1SG failed you, you failed yourself. You have an excuse for failing your first one and now you have an excuse for failing your second one. I have graded many a PT Test and never have I wanted anyone to fail. I have graded many to the standards and some did not make the minimum standard. I once failed the S3 major. He was ticked, but I would not count head bobs. When they fail the push up, it is usually due to previous graders not holding them to the standard, and when they are held to the standard, they cannot pass.

2019-02-25T18:23:53-05:00 2019-02-25T18:23:53-05:00 1SG Private RallyPoint Member 4403044

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Considering your claim and comments raise questions regarding the integrity of the 1SG, I&#39;ll point something out that I&#39;m certain <a class="dark-link bold-link" role="profile-hover" data-qtip-container="body" data-id="148812" data-source-page-controller="question_response_contents" href="/profiles/148812-79s-career-counselor-usaraf-hq-usaraf-setaf">SFC Private RallyPoint Member</a> observed but elected not to comment on. Others have likely also noted it, but were either advising you in their Barracks Lawyer capacity, or providing you guidance based on regulation and their experience, because it&#39;s not really that big of a deal, unless you consider what your initial and follow up posts would lead a reasonable person to infer:<br />You&#39;re questioning the 1SG&#39;s integrity.<br /><br />Yet, you have yourself listed as PFC(P) in your profile. First, the (P)--promotable--is only used in signature blocks on official Army communications if it benefits the Army. I&#39;ll disregard that because it still isn&#39;t that big of a deal. After all, this is just the Internet, and the (P) is misused daily across the Army. Second, but most importantly, a Soldier who fails an APFT is flagged, so is not promotable. Again, not a big deal, but if you&#39;r going to question the integrity of the 1SG, you may want to ensure your&#39;s is above reproach. Still, this is just the Internet.<br /><br />That said, have you asked the 1SG or CSM to take another APFT?<br />If not, I encourage you to ask your NCOSC/COC today, even if you asked before, and keep us posted on the outcome.

2019-02-26T13:01:40-05:00 2019-02-26T13:01:40-05:00 SGT Private RallyPoint Member 4406992

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>To be separated for APFT failure, you must have failed two RECORD tests in a row WITHIN 90 days. There’s a whole process the unit must go through with legal. If you have a copy of either one that was a diagnostic, then they don’t count against you.

2019-02-27T19:37:13-05:00 2019-02-27T19:37:13-05:00 MSG Private RallyPoint Member 4409352

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>There is no &quot;appeal&quot; to an APFT, you only recourse is a re-test. Given that your 1SG was grading you it is more likely that you were graded correctly for the first time and not &quot;harshly&quot; as you stated. Work on your form, your focus should be knocking out the minimum amount of push-ups PERFECTLY whatever you get after that is a bonus. You should be doing push-ups all the time and having someone (preferably an NCO) make sure your form is correct. Just because you think your doing correct push-ups doesn&#39;t mean you are.<br />P.S. Word of advice, Take the (P) off your rank, your not a &quot;promotable&quot; PFC, your either a PFC or a SPC. With that (P) behind your rank and this question you are really coming off &quot;special&quot; kind of soldier... just saying.

2019-02-28T15:22:37-05:00 2019-02-28T15:22:37-05:00 2019-02-22T18:50:50-05:00