Do any of you consider renewables as a good source of energy? What are your thoughts on ethanol blending?

2016-09-27T16:57:07-04:00

The Ethanol Boondoggle
We are bombarded with quoted statistics sponsored by the corn/ethanol lobby that represent a biased opinion as part of that industry. I quote real common sense statistics as a non-biased consumer who is tired of being ripped-off by the industry and the people lining their pockets at the expense of the American consumer.
Let us start with production.
Growing corn requires fertilizer an energy intensive process using natural gas to supply much of the required energy. A better use of the natural gas would be to power our transportation needs directly eliminating this wasteful process. Let us discount for a minute the energy required to produce the fertilizer and consider the additional land use and the additional runoff of the fertilizer into out lakes and streams and the subsequent pollution of our ground water from additional land use. Our lakes are being decimated with toxic algae as a direct result of using additional land growing corn to produce fuel. Our state governments are forced to spend millions on clean-up efforts. While we are on the subject of water large amounts are required to both grow the corn and produce the ethanol. This is just another waste of a precious resource. Farming is a labor intensive process requiring diesel powered tractors and equipment consuming energy in the process. The land would be better used if reforested to improve our environment or to grow food for national consumption or export for profit. Corn is a major staple for the hungry third world and using food to produce fuel is just wrong and immoral.
Next to consider is transportation.
Our country has a built in infrastructure of literally thousands upon thousands of miles of both oil and gas pipelines capable of transporting energy both efficiently and safely anywhere in the country. Corrosive ethanol on the other hand cannot use the existing transport infrastructure and must be transported in small inefficient quantities by diesel burning tankers to the end distribution point for final blending before delivery to local stations.
Now let us consider use.
The industry may quote all the energy statistics they wish but we cannot deny the simple FACT that ethanol does not have the same energy content of diesel, gasoline or natural gas. There is no free lunch when it comes to converting energy from one form to another. We can design internal or external combustion engines to capture some of the wasted heat from converting fuel to mechanical energy but in the end ethanol is an inferior product from an energy standpoint when compared to natural gas, gasoline or diesel.
As a pilot and general aviation aircraft owner I am forbidden by our government to use ethanol laced gasoline in my aircraft. The reasons are similar to automobile use but worse for aircraft. Since ethanol laced gasoline does not have the same energy content as ethanol free gasoline performance is reduced on takeoff and could result in a failure to clear an obstacle and a crash. We can optimize an engine to burn ethanol but that presents another problem with the range of the aircraft. Since ethanol has lower energy content we must burn more of it to equal the same mechanical output if powered by gasoline. The end result is reduced range that may result in the aircraft not reaching its intended destination before depleting its fuel supply. To make matters worse I am forced to unnecessarily burn leaded gasoline in a low compression engine that both causes damage to my engine and spews poison into our atmosphere. This is a direct result of the government forcing every station in my area to lace the gasoline with ethanol making ethanol free gasoline unavailable.
Automobile use of ethanol affects every driving American by stealing dollars from our pockets with reduced fuel mileage. And yes the fuel injection system of a modern engine will adjust to the ethanol by increasing the fuel to air ratio to accommodate the lower energy content of ethanol. But consider if you will that ethanol free gasoline will allow that same fuel injection system to adjust the air to fuel ratio back to 14.7:1 resulting in increased mileage for the consumer. I have personally seen the damage done to fuel systems by the corrosive properties of ethanol resulting in the destruction of both carburetors and fuel pumps. Ethanol has two very destructive propertied. First it conducts electricity and causes electrolysis to occur between dissimilar metals destroying them and second it has an affinity to water and attracts it to the fuel system. Many small engine powered devices are destroyed when stored over the winter with ethanol left in the fuel system.
Last but not least consider the environment.
As outlined above we are poisoning our lakes and streams including drinking water with unnecessary runoff from additional farm land growing corn for the production of ethanol.
The production and transportation of ethanol spews unhealthy diesel exhaust including carbon particulate into out atmosphere. To make matters worse the burning of ethanol as a fuel further pollutes our atmosphere with ozone increasing smog by 20 percent. Here are links to Stanford, Northwestern and Scientific American. The first link to Forbes presents the bottom line on ethanol.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesconca/2014/04/20/its-final-corn-ethanol-is-of-no-use/#433abf9b2ca2
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/ethanol-fuels-ozone-pollution/
http://news.stanford.edu/news/2009/december14/ozone-ethanol-health-121409.html
http://www.northwestern.edu/newscenter/stories/2014/04/ozone-levels-drop-20-percent-with-switch-from-ethanol-to-gasoline.html
In summary, the practice of producing ethanol for blending with gasoline hurts the environment and the American consumer and only benefits investors, lobbyists and politicians promoting the boondoggle called ethanol.

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Response by CPT Pedro Meza made Sep 27 at 2016 5:00 PM

2016-09-27T17:00:39-04:00

Lobbyist are the ones that push ethanol.. and we fall for it because of energy blah blah blah.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 27 at 2016 5:00 PM

2016-09-27T17:00:58-04:00

SGM Barry Kindred Alcohol as a fuel is a result of special interest groups. Fact is that alcohol is a very inefficient fuel.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 27 at 2016 5:09 PM

2016-09-27T17:09:00-04:00

My car can run on 85 ethanol . Rarely have I done it because there is no ethanol in Florida.

Response by SPC James Harsh made Sep 27 at 2016 5:11 PM

2016-09-27T17:11:58-04:00

I agree it's a waste of space, octane>ethanol. Serious effects are though that limited farming space and the demand for ethanol take away from national produce. I tried beef from australia at a cheap price and never again, never again.

Response by SGT Beau Thomas made Sep 27 at 2016 5:50 PM

2016-09-27T17:50:41-04:00

Just a little left of the conversion, but during the debate last night, Hillary was talking up clean, renewable energy....all I could think about was that I have never seen or heard of a factory that produces wind mills run off wind mill power...or a solar panel factory run off solar panel energy. I don't think the mining equipment runs off of batteries at lithium mines. I always found that amusing.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 27 at 2016 6:28 PM

2016-09-27T18:28:52-04:00

Ethanol is a joke. I live in the Midwest (Iowa) where there are quite a few plants. It's cheap gas...literally. I can get it for 1.45 a gallon. Problem is I lose 2-4 MPG.

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Sep 27 at 2016 6:53 PM

2016-09-27T18:53:24-04:00

No renewable energy source has ever been economically viable without massive government subsidies. Isn't it time that someone figures out that government subsidies are not renewable?

Response by LTC David Brown made Sep 27 at 2016 7:20 PM

2016-09-27T19:20:09-04:00

I have lost a couple of chain saws, leaf blowers, and several lawn mower repare bills because of ethanol. I would love to shove up Al Gores tuckus. Al Gore cast the deciding vote for ethanol to break a tie vote in the Senate as VP. Then a few years later he said it was a mistake. Now we are stuck with the garbage. Gee Al, care to pay for my equipment ? Solendra became a toxic waste site. Cost Americans millions for that screwed up piece of work. Of course Obama wasn't investing his money in Solendra so I guess it is OK. https://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/11/22/gore-admits-the-obvious-us-corn-ethanol-was-not-a-good-policy/

Gore admits the obvious: US corn ethanol was not a good policy

Do not expect to read much about this in the NY Times — and definitely don’t expect any follow up questions about his motivation for climate policy ($$$). Former Vice President Al Gore…

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 27 at 2016 8:14 PM

2016-09-27T20:14:03-04:00

More BTUs to make corn ethanol than you get out of it. If it weren't so, the government wouldn't have to subsidize it.

Response by SGM Mikel Dawson made Sep 27 at 2016 8:31 PM

2016-09-27T20:31:09-04:00

The only corn extract I know of that's worth beans is

Response by 1SG Al Brown made Sep 27 at 2016 9:02 PM

2016-09-27T21:02:03-04:00

I don't use ethanol, but I use methanol, potassium and soy bean oil to make bio-diesel. The plant is easy to operate. It runs my tractors and trucks on the farm. The bio-diesel production costs about 50% of what diesel currently costs, so it's worth the effort. However, it only works well in certain applications, as some tractor and automotive engines work better than others. Vehicles with exhaust fluids can't use bio-diesel. Taxes are very minimal, as they are only required for road use mileage and paid on the 1040F. My tractors drink the lions share of my fuel. So far, gasoline with ethanol has only been good for melting my boat fuel lines and running up the cost of feed corn for my cattle.

Response by SFC James Asbill made Sep 27 at 2016 11:56 PM

2016-09-27T23:56:44-04:00

I don't see where it is ever a good idea to use a food source for a wholesale use as fuel ..

Response by MSgt Michael Smith made Sep 28 at 2016 8:00 AM

2016-09-28T08:00:36-04:00

Every bit, every tiny morsel of energy on the earth either comes from the sun, or came from the sun at some point in time. And we should ignore that and instead concentrate on a dirty, unhealthy, and rapidly declining source of energy because right now it is easier? Sounds very stupid to me. We need to do everything we can to advance innovations in renewable energy sources.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 28 at 2016 8:27 AM

2016-09-28T08:27:37-04:00

If we are going to get serious about ethanol, it needs to come from other sources than corn, switch grasses, cane etc are much better sources and can be grown on much poorer soils.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 28 at 2016 5:52 PM

2016-09-28T17:52:40-04:00

I think renewable energy is great, lets save mother earth from being sucked out dry !!!!