Did you know that Scientists have identiified a new ancient ancestor?

COL Mikel J. Burroughs — Tue, 15 Sep 2015 13:09:17 -0400

http://cudenvertoday.org/scientists-identify-new-species-of-hominin-in-south-africa/
Did you know that Scientists identify a new ancient ancestor? (Click on Link above for the full story)

Again, I'm off my normal posting discussions, but I found this article to be very interesting and for some controversial as to the evolution of man.

RP Members what do you think? Did man evolve or was he created in the Garden of Eden? I'm looking for both perspectives in a professional dialogue.

1SG Randy Book SSG Eduardo Ybarra Jr. MS Psyc PO2 Richard C.Richard VisconteSGT Michael Harbison SGT David Lacks SSgt James Cottrell SP5 Rod Bernsen TSgt Robert Allen Steve Newsom SSgt Craig DanielsonPre-CommissionCPO Private RallyPoint Member SPC Rikk Hillicoss LCpl Douglas Landrith Jr SFC Private RallyPoint Member[~401551:CPO Tony Hatzenbuehler

Scientists identify new species of hominin in South Africa - CU Denver Today

An international team of scientists, including one from the University of Colorado Denver and another from the University of Colorado Anschutz Medical Campus in Aurora, announced the discovery Thursday of a new species of hominin, a small creature with a tiny brain that opens the door to a new way of thinking about our ancient …

Response by SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL made Sep 15 at 2015 1:20 PM

SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL — Tue, 15 Sep 2015 13:20:11 -0400

COL Mikel J. Burroughs wow you want to talk about a breakthrough,(this is one of them). Scientist discovering Homo Naledi is a major breakthrough. I am at the crossroads when it comes to evolution of mankind, because I believe in Adam/Eve and the biblical existence of mankind. Scientist are forever evolving the existence of humans and with this discovery, it makes me wonder the evolution of Mankind.

Response by Sgt Kelli Mays made Sep 15 at 2015 1:22 PM

Sgt Kelli Mays — Tue, 15 Sep 2015 13:22:36 -0400

Stories like this with evidence of some sort of proof really throw a wrench into my beliefs. That being said...I believe in GOD, but I do believe in evolution to an extent.

Response by CMSgt Mark Schubert made Sep 15 at 2015 1:25 PM

CMSgt Mark Schubert — Tue, 15 Sep 2015 13:25:15 -0400

I'm with Ben Carson on this one - I believe there's no better explanation than the bible.

Response by SSG Warren Swan made Sep 15 at 2015 1:27 PM

SSG Warren Swan — Tue, 15 Sep 2015 13:27:30 -0400

Great Job!! Goes to show that just when you thought you knew it all, there's bound to be something news to pique your interest. Good post Sir.

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made Sep 15 at 2015 1:27 PM

PO1 William "Chip" Nagel — Tue, 15 Sep 2015 13:27:44 -0400

Like the Bumper Sticker on my Odyssey (USS Wisconsin) says "I believe Evolution is one of Gods Greatest Inventions". Genesis is a wonderful attempt by our early ancestors to try and explain our existence. Great Story Telling. Well Written. Romantic Folklore. Legend nothing more. We will always search for "Eve" though.

Response by LTC Stephen F. made Sep 15 at 2015 1:36 PM

LTC Stephen F. — Tue, 15 Sep 2015 13:36:30 -0400

Man was created COL Mikel J. Burroughs sovereignly by God. Human beings are the only creatures created in the image of God - we are not replicas of God but we share some of His communicable attributes - love, complex thought, joy, compassion, creative design, ability to pass on useful information to successive generations, etc.
DNA uniquely defines man. The external structural design of man shares similarities with the great apes because the designer knew what He was doing :-) The DNA of each of the mammals has common components but they are each unique. While dogs can mate with wolves and produce living offspring because of common ancestry as humans had captured wolves millennia and domesticated had bred the fogs for unique capabilities.
However humans cannot successfully mate with great apes. Hopefully no RallyPoint members will try :-)
[Update] God is the author of all life. Macro-evolution is a fable.
Micro-evolution which is the adaptation of species to changes in their environment is a name we have applied to a God-ordained "process." "Microevolution is simply a change in gene frequency within a population. Evolution at this scale can be observed over short periods of time — for example, between one generation and the next, the frequency of a gene for pesticide resistance in a population of crop pests increases."

Response by Cpl Jeff N. made Sep 15 at 2015 1:38 PM

Cpl Jeff N. — Tue, 15 Sep 2015 13:38:51 -0400

This is what happens when you start with a conclusion (evolution) and then work the evidence (bones/fossils) to fit the conclusion. They don't really know that it is a relative of any specific creature. They find bones of a small ape/human type creature and it must be a relative of mankind. There is just as good a chance that it was some creature that existed on earth for many years and then went extinct.

The article even admits they don't know where it would "fit" in the human tree if it fit there at all. There are potentially thousands of creatures that have come and gone from the face of the planet.

Anthropologists all want to be the guy/gal to find the missing link. Nothing wrong with the desire just don't let the desire outrun the facts/evidence.

Response by MCPO Roger Collins made Sep 15 at 2015 1:41 PM

MCPO Roger Collins — Tue, 15 Sep 2015 13:41:19 -0400

As much as I love a good debate, this one I will sit out of.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 15 at 2015 1:54 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 15 Sep 2015 13:54:04 -0400

If you want to look at this from the perspective of the Bible stories let’s first take a look at Genesis 4:16 “So Cain went out from the LORD’s presence and lived in the land of Nod, east of Eden.” We know he got married, had children and founded a city. It’s important to note that this story is from the perspective of one people or tribe, not all people. I am not Jewish, so this is not the creation story of my ancestors… it is the creation story of another people. In the creation story of my ancestors Odin created Man and Women from Ash and Elm, they were given thought and feeling from Vili and the ability to hear, speak and see from Ve. Of course this story is allegory, however it is the story of my ancestors… not those of another people.

Given that the creation story of my people is allegory, I have no problem with scientific evidence which points to an evolutionary process that continues to unfold as science continues to advance.

Response by MSgt Manuel Diaz made Sep 15 at 2015 1:54 PM

MSgt Manuel Diaz — Tue, 15 Sep 2015 13:54:32 -0400

Col Mike Burroughs it seems to me that our planet has always had little people. The Congo Pygmy groups were regarded as a sub-race of the Negroid race by European anthropologists in the late 19th through to the first half of the 20th century.[5] The Congo Pygmy speak languages of the Niger–Congo and Central Sudanic language families. There has been significant intermixing between the Bantu and Pygmies.
The current racial or ethnic designation was conceived by European anthropologists to describe the various small-framed groups of the Congo rain forests that appeared to be related. Now I'm not sure how small a hobbit is; however all thru history you do hear of little people. In Hawaiian mythology, the Menehune are said to be a people, sometimes described as dwarfs in size, who live in the deep forests and hidden valleys of the forrests... the Irish have their elves, and fairies, there are dwarfs and midgets so it is plausible that they to were at one time inhabitants of the planet and being human nature to conquer and kill the men and rape the women, children go into slavery for whatever purpose the victor choses. So today we call that DNA defective traits or throwbacks to previous inbreeding whether through love or conquest. Just my thoughts on your question. In looking up pygmy I found this

Marauding rebels are massacring and eating pygmies in the dense forests of north-east Congo, according to UN officials who are investigating allegations of cannibalism in Ituri province, where fighting between several rebel groups has displaced about 150,000 people in the past month.
Many of the displaced tell of rebel fighters capturing and butchering pygmies, Manoddje Mounoubai, spokesman for the UN ceasefire monitoring mission in Congo, said yesterday.
The UN had sent six officials to investigate the accusation as well as other human rights abuses, he said.
Other UN officials in the capital, Kinshasa, and the eastern city of Goma said that widespread cannibalism had already been established.
"Ituri is completely out of control and cannibalism is just the latest atrocity taking place," said one, who asked not to be named until the investigators deliver their report. "Perhaps this will finally alert the world to what's going on."

Response by MSgt Manuel Diaz made Sep 15 at 2015 1:54 PM

MSgt Manuel Diaz — Tue, 15 Sep 2015 13:54:47 -0400

Response by MSgt Manuel Diaz made Sep 15 at 2015 1:55 PM

MSgt Manuel Diaz — Tue, 15 Sep 2015 13:55:26 -0400

Response by MSgt Manuel Diaz made Sep 15 at 2015 1:58 PM

MSgt Manuel Diaz — Tue, 15 Sep 2015 13:58:37 -0400

Response by SN Greg Wright made Sep 15 at 2015 2:02 PM

SN Greg Wright — Tue, 15 Sep 2015 14:02:54 -0400

COL Mikel J. Burroughs Colonel, there is clear and undeniable scientific evidence that the Big Bang occurred. So, for me, the discussion of God MUST include the possibility that that was His method of creation. And if I have to accept that, then I have to accept that evolution was part of His method. It baffles me (as I told Sgt Kelli Mays below) why religious leaders the world over dismiss evolution as one of God's tools.

Response by MSgt Manuel Diaz made Sep 15 at 2015 2:04 PM

MSgt Manuel Diaz — Tue, 15 Sep 2015 14:04:50 -0400

Response by SPC David S. made Sep 15 at 2015 2:11 PM

SPC David S. — Tue, 15 Sep 2015 14:11:31 -0400

Yes sir I did read about this. Its very interesting as the date of the findings may reshape are understanding of what "human" means. Legends of the Menehune and the Giants of the mid-west may be closer to the truth.

Response by SSgt Alex Robinson made Sep 15 at 2015 2:32 PM

SSgt Alex Robinson — Tue, 15 Sep 2015 14:32:57 -0400

Great post

Response by SGT David T. made Sep 15 at 2015 2:39 PM

SGT David T. — Tue, 15 Sep 2015 14:39:56 -0400

After reading a few of the comments here is what I came up with. Science and religion are not the same nor do they serve the same function. Adopting one does not by default exclude the other. In simple terms: science attempts to tell us HOW the universe works whereas religion tells us WHY. One other thing I will add just to think about. Genesis never once said what tools God used...

Response by MSgt Manuel Diaz made Sep 15 at 2015 2:41 PM

MSgt Manuel Diaz — Tue, 15 Sep 2015 14:41:12 -0400

Col Mike Burroughs it seems to me that our planet has always had little people. The Congo Pygmy groups were regarded as a sub-race of the Negroid race by European anthropologists in the late 19th through to the first half of the 20th century.[5] The Congo Pygmy speak languages of the Niger–Congo and Central Sudanic language families. There has been significant intermixing between the Bantu and Pygmies.
The current racial or ethnic designation was conceived by European anthropologists to describe the various small-framed groups of the Congo rain forests that appeared to be related. Now I'm not sure how small a hobbit is; however all thru history you do hear of little people. In Hawaiian mythology, the Menehune are said to be a people, sometimes described as dwarfs in size, who live in the deep forests and hidden valleys of the forrests... the Irish have their elves, and fairies, there are dwarfs and midgets so it is plausible that they to were at one time inhabitants of the planet and being human nature to conquer and kill the men and rape the women, children go into slavery for whatever purpose the victor choses. So today we call that DNA defective traits or throwbacks to previous inbreeding whether through love or conquest. Just my thoughts on your question. In looking up pygmy I found this:

Marauding rebels are massacring and eating pygmies in the dense forests of north-east Congo, according to UN officials who are investigating allegations of cannibalism in Ituri province, where fighting between several rebel groups has displaced about 150,000 people in the past month.
Many of the displaced tell of rebel fighters capturing and butchering pygmies, Manoddje Mounoubai, spokesman for the UN ceasefire monitoring mission in Congo, said yesterday.
The UN had sent six officials to investigate the accusation as well as other human rights abuses, he said.
Other UN officials in the capital, Kinshasa, and the eastern city of Goma said that widespread cannibalism had already been established.
"Ituri is completely out of control and cannibalism is just the latest atrocity taking place," said one, who asked not to be named until the investigators deliver their report. "Perhaps this will finally alert the world to what's going on."

Response by Cpl Robert Clark made Sep 15 at 2015 3:04 PM

Cpl Robert Clark — Tue, 15 Sep 2015 15:04:58 -0400

I know my ancient ancestor... his name was Adam.

Response by PO3 Steven Sherrill made Sep 15 at 2015 3:14 PM

PO3 Steven Sherrill — Tue, 15 Sep 2015 15:14:04 -0400

COL Mikel J. Burroughs it is a great article.

From a faith perspective, evolution is the hardest concept to reconcile. I personally believe that it is a combination. I believe that we strive to be the best that we can, then evolve into something greater. Though right now I would say we are marking time at best, devolving at worst.

I have seen a discovery channel documentary about our ancestral roots. They had an interview with an anthropologist who said that a neanderthal man would be virtually indistinguishable from a modern man. He went on to state that modern humans may be up to five percent neanderthal. I laughed thinking some are a lot more than five percent.

Response by SGT John Rauch made Sep 15 at 2015 5:53 PM

SGT John Rauch — Tue, 15 Sep 2015 17:53:20 -0400

ok, so what do we actually know here? the species discovered displays human traits in burying their dead, they walked upright, they were smaller than a normal human,. sounds like a nutrition issue to me. has nobody ever thought of this? curved fingers? sounds a bit like scurvy to me. a lack of nutrition will do weird things to a person. or perhaps these were just lepers who were outcasts from society, which would explain the skeletal structure and the fact that they seemed to be hiding away. why is everyone so quick to try and prove the evolutionary religion? God is sovereign. he created in 6 literal 24 hour days. to me there are many more gaps in logic for evolution than for creation. evolution is just a way to say that God has no authority over mankind.

Response by SGT John W Lugo made Sep 15 at 2015 6:15 PM

SGT John W Lugo — Tue, 15 Sep 2015 18:15:52 -0400

I will continue to rely on the Bibles version of how God created Man. I'm sure that there are many things that evolved over the years, but I've always question some of the things scientist claimed to have discovered.

Response by COL Ted Mc made Sep 15 at 2015 8:36 PM

COL Ted Mc — Tue, 15 Sep 2015 20:36:17 -0400

COL Mikel J. Burroughs - Mikel; Since I haven't yet been able to get a definitive answer to the question "Which one of the three different versions of creation set out in Genesis is the only correct one and why are the other two included in the infallible Bible?", I'm going to have to pass on deciding whether man was "created in the Garden of Eden" as "The Bible" tells us or if man was created in some other place like some of the older versions of "Creation" do in their versions of "The Bible" (which are remarkably similar in major theological points with "only the names being changed to protect the innocent") or even if "God" decided that the really amusing way to "create" mankind was to set evolution in motion by pushing one single electron in a "steady state" universe with precisely the right force and in precisely the right direction so that 300,000,000,000,000,000 years later we would be where we are today.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 15 at 2015 8:59 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 15 Sep 2015 20:59:38 -0400

COL Mikel J. Burroughs I had not heard this story. Thank you for posting it, I find anthropologic discoveries interesting.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 15 at 2015 9:18 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 15 Sep 2015 21:18:50 -0400

I believe God and the bible. Who's to say maybe Adam and Eve were short people who over time, evolved to the size we are now? That's all I am writing because I don't want to get into a religious discussion.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 16 at 2015 8:31 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 16 Sep 2015 08:31:05 -0400

Well, the whole "Garden of Eden" and "Adam and Eve" thing is just a metaphor for early human civilization, so as long as you consider it in those terms, nothing stands in the way of comprehending scientific wonders.

Remember, on one hand the Bible states that Adam and Eve were the first people, but later it says that their sons "took brides from the other tribes". So clearly when Adam and Eve are said to be the first people, what is meant, perhaps, was they represent the first people who comprehended the one God, and so therefore they were the first people that matter for the purposes of the book.

Before that? Homo Naledi and others, eh?

Response by Cpl Isaac Park made Sep 16 at 2015 2:42 PM

Cpl Isaac Park — Wed, 16 Sep 2015 14:42:48 -0400

This is what I think. People need to be more understanding to the science and logic behind evolution before they dismiss it.

Firstly: The Theory of the Evolution of Life is supported by fossil evidence that can be traced all the way back to Archan eon (which ended 2.51 giga anums).

Secondly: Just because a fossil of a hypothetical ancestor hasn't been discovered, doesn't mean an ancestor didn't exist. Less than 1% of all living species end up in the fossil record. (Just because you can't produce the physical remains of your grandfather's father doesn't mean your grandfather was polymerized from the void.)

Thirdly: People have been digging whole fossils out of the ground for hundreds of years without any explanation as to how or why they were there. Upon observing the fact that fossil organisms have traceable changes and differences over time led to the conclusion that organisms changed over time. Then a conclusion was drawn that changes in an organism's environment is what facilitates observable changes to an entire species by means of extinction of those members with less favorable traits.

Okay, now. We've established that life changes over time and leads to the advent of new species when enough variations of phenotypes and thus genes cause two related organisms to be incompatible with each other for sexual reproduction. This was proven by laboratory experiments with fruit flies.

Fourthly: Humans, bacteria, plants, animals-all living things-are made of the same 4 nucleotides and 20 amino acids. The fact that humans share the same complex subunits as plants, bacteria, and animals, support the idea that humans appeared on this earth through the same mechanisms that new species of plants, animals, and bacteria emerge from their own ancestors.

Everything I said above is why scientists can say with 100% certainty that the H. sapiens species descended from an ancestor.

Reiteration: Just because we haven't found a fossil of our anceator doesn't mean it didn't exist in the past. It could simply mean humans evolved from a very small group of ancestors (our mitochondrial DNA can only be traced to 700 females by the way) who lived in a relatively recent geologic time in an environment where fossils didn't form.

Why do Christians believe God is telling them to deny conclusions derived from unbiased analyses and tests of hypotheses formed from sound reasoning and good observation?

Response by SGT Anthony Rossi made Sep 17 at 2015 5:25 AM

SGT Anthony Rossi — Thu, 17 Sep 2015 05:25:22 -0400

I see no conflict here at all. The scripture speaks of giants, so the thought of extremely small people seems very plausible as well. The Bible is the information God thought nessasarily to impart to us. The scriptures never imply to explained every discovery we may come across. This find just establishes that God will continue to astonish us.

Jer 33:3 Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and shew thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not.

Response by PO1 John Miller made Sep 17 at 2015 11:16 AM

PO1 John Miller — Thu, 17 Sep 2015 11:16:24 -0400

I remember reading about this not too long ago. In fact it was here on RP that I saw it. I'll be following this story as I am interested in evolution.

Response by SSG Leo Bell made Feb 25 at 2016 11:58 AM

SSG Leo Bell — Thu, 25 Feb 2016 11:58:53 -0500

Everyone here know I'm a true believer of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ. I believe what the bible say and not what scientists say. The evolution of man has came a very long way. We know today that every creature will adapt to there surrounding. If a monkey is in a very flooded jungle, they will learn to swim and adapt to there surroundings. Animals and man has done tgis for years. A good example is people who live in Florida are more adapted to warm weather and you will find there skin n is not as thick and someone who my live in Alaska where and Alaskan is use to extremely cold weather and living in villages with just the essentials they need. Where people in a warmer climate couldn't handle the cold and conditions that Alaska brings. It another example of you have an animal living in a wet environment and the same animal living in a dry environment. The one in the wet watery environment might develop web footing so they could move thru the water, where the one in the desert might develop more of a foot that would resemble and camels type of footing where they could walk on the sand without having difficulty walking.

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made Feb 26 at 2016 9:22 AM

PO1 William "Chip" Nagel — Fri, 26 Feb 2016 09:22:33 -0500

Did a tour at COMSPAWARSYSCOM with the Ubber Scientist of the Naval Community, I was always grateful for the patience and tolerance they showed to this Village Idiot from Kansas. They always talked me up and I would just look at their "I love me wall" and shake my head. Bloody Geniuses and for some strange reason they thought well of me. Damn If I Know Why!

Response by LCpl Cody Collins made Mar 4 at 2016 8:27 PM

LCpl Cody Collins — Fri, 04 Mar 2016 20:27:26 -0500

Man was created, and ever since Everyone and Adam disobey an eighth of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil man has been devolving not evolving ever since. Caine was the first to devolve by murdering his younger brother Able. God cursed Caine for killing his brother and sentenced him to be a wondered and a vagabond for the rest of his life. The Bible says Cain married one of his sisters, so if scientists have found another kind of human is just another lie to try to shore up the failing Big Bang evolution theory. The difference between a theory and truth call a theory is just a guess for some Asian of what might have happened not what did happen. The Word of God is truth because God is truth and no lie is in him, everything the Bible says did happen and what hasn't happened yet will happen because God cannot lie. Cain and Abel are perfect examples of what happened when Adam and Eve eat that fruit off the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, only for people on the earth yet K knew how to kill his brother, who taught him to kill his brother? Adam and Eve did not teach and surely able did not teach his brother how to kill him. Even today you have those that want to silence and kill those who believe the Word of God over science and the political climate of the day. Is that good and evil that has infected man that knowledge of how to kill and hate and destroy. Even though we are as individuals know what the right thing is.

Response by LTC Terrence Farrier, PhD made May 16 at 2017 9:41 AM

LTC Terrence Farrier, PhD — Tue, 16 May 2017 09:41:42 -0400

I believe man was created by God, but not in the usual black and white context many do. Here is why? Our time is NOT God's time 2 Peter 3:8 and there were indications that others existed outside the garden occupied by Adam and Eve Genesis 4. Evolution, as we understand it with human minds may not coincide with a limitless mind with an unlimited time frame - God's. Almost everywhere the bible has been proven true...scientifically, but there remains pieces not yet understood. Why not accept that our time and our minds are not the same as God's? It is in the bible that it is NOT. What do you think?

Response by SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth made May 16 at 2017 9:59 AM

SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth — Tue, 16 May 2017 09:59:49 -0400

I'm a follower of the creation side. Interesting read though.

Response by SPC Kevin Ford made May 16 at 2017 10:27 AM

SPC Kevin Ford — Tue, 16 May 2017 10:27:13 -0400

The evidence for evolution is substantial. Most Christian religions don't have an issue having it exist side by side with their belief in God. It tends only to be the literalists that run into conflict with evolution.

Response by LCpl Donald Faucett made May 16 at 2017 11:59 AM

LCpl Donald Faucett — Tue, 16 May 2017 11:59:15 -0400

Man evolved from the Garden of Eden. They had to because a snake messed up a perfect world, so they had to adjust/evolve.

Response by MAJ Dick Farnsworth made May 16 at 2017 12:08 PM

MAJ Dick Farnsworth — Tue, 16 May 2017 12:08:40 -0400

This is the classically ridiculous. Some "scientist" claims to have found some indication that a being existed some millions of years ago (first question: how was age determined?) that was an ancestor (second question: By what evidentiary marker?) of humans? The third question is was that being sentient? (If the being isn't sentient, it cannot be an ancestor of man.) And finally, was that being a true separate specie or some kind of mutation? And if a true separate being, where is evidence of any mate or offspring (see challenges to the existence of "Big Foot.") Remember, most of the "evidence" of time passage based on geological layering was flushed where it belongs when Mt. St. Helens blew and they dug into its layering. If man "evolved" where is the evidence of that evolution--the "Missing links"? As I said, ridiculous. (Note: Neanderthal is explained in Genesis Chapter 6, Nephilim.) Theories of evolution are based on the fear of facing The Angry God, and hopes by those who fear such that if they deny that God exists, they would not need to face Him. Bottom line: If you choose to believe that there is no God; no heaven or hell, you'd better be right.

Response by PO2 Jerri Jackson made May 16 at 2017 12:09 PM

PO2 Jerri Jackson — Tue, 16 May 2017 12:09:21 -0400

Yes, how cool is that? Read the article last week elsewhere.

Response by PFC Jim Mills made May 16 at 2017 12:31 PM

PFC Jim Mills — Tue, 16 May 2017 12:31:29 -0400

I'll say this one thing ! God put the thought of eveloution into the mix to create a fascination for man and give them something to do and study ! Did god create this ? Off course he did " but what scientists should be very careful not to do is confuse fascination with FAITH! Faith that our father in heaven gave us breath of life and free will !

Response by PO3 John Wagner made May 16 at 2017 12:45 PM

PO3 John Wagner — Tue, 16 May 2017 12:45:06 -0400

Man has NOT evolved yet. That fact renders any discussion of our evolvedness moot. But we are a work in progress it is to be hoped. We evolve every day or we die. A comment made by a farmer friend of mine illustrates evolution and natural selection in a perfect way.
I commented that though I see far more deer than I used too that there are far fewer deer strikes.
His short but quite accurate comment was.. "They're getting smarter." Natural selection..what we like to refer to as evolution when talking about major structural changes in animals.. has reduced the populations of deer that are more prone to being unobservant about their surroundings, or the ones who have failed to adapt to the fact that enormous machines which will destroy them instantaneously are a constant now.
Exactly how long has this factor been a part of their environment? A snap of the finger in terms of evolutionary time. But in the 60 or 70 years that high speed vehicular traffic has become part of the environment natural selection is weeding out those deer which don't adapt as quickly. In all likelyhood large animal strikes will become very rare in the future. The problem is resolving itself within our own lifetimes.
Amazing!

Response by SPC Douglas Bolton made May 16 at 2017 12:45 PM

SPC Douglas Bolton — Tue, 16 May 2017 12:45:18 -0400

COL Mikel J. Burroughs If you believe the Bible. End of conversation. I believe in the Bible.

Response by SSgt Boyd Herrst made May 16 at 2017 1:05 PM

SSgt Boyd Herrst — Tue, 16 May 2017 13:05:34 -0400

There's always room for the benefit of
another idea.. that's what's so great about
Living in a country like the United States..
we're all permitted to believe in our
Own way and not be held accoutable...

Response by 1stSgt Nelson Kerr made May 16 at 2017 1:29 PM

1stSgt Nelson Kerr — Tue, 16 May 2017 13:29:34 -0400

For most believers of any faith believing and god and believing in evolution ate totally compatible, The Pope and The Dalai Lama MOST FAITHS can agree on that at least, Some extremist fundamentalist in some faiths disagree, but the are pretty concentrate in the middle east and the US.

Response by SSG Michael Eastes made May 16 at 2017 1:39 PM

SSG Michael Eastes — Tue, 16 May 2017 13:39:31 -0400

I'm sticking with the Bible on this.

Response by Capt Dwayne Conyers made May 16 at 2017 1:58 PM

Capt Dwayne Conyers — Tue, 16 May 2017 13:58:25 -0400

The two are not mutually exclusive.

DNA shows life originating in Africa. Eden? The human genome contains variety (or the capability thereof). Some are born with albinism and migrate. You have the Europeans (more evolution among related grips). In Asia you see people with a variety of bone structures and percentages of melanin ranging from pale to dark. More evolution.

Response by Sgt David G Duchesneau made May 16 at 2017 1:58 PM

Sgt David G Duchesneau — Tue, 16 May 2017 13:58:50 -0400

I believe that God made man!!!!! I'll hold on to that belief ! Thanks Colonel for your POST!

Response by Gary Henson made May 16 at 2017 2:03 PM

Gary Henson — Tue, 16 May 2017 14:03:46 -0400

I don't disagree with either side, humans adapt very quickly. Don't believe me? Go stand outside in the sun for five hours and tell me you don't look different the next day. People that don't believe in a God or something more complex than science and what it has discovered, won't believe until they see it for themselves. I used to be the same way. But there is one thing that science cannot explain that humans have seen, and that is ghosts, demonic possessions, and other strange phenomenon. once you see this with your own very eyes, you will see just how incomplete scientific information is.

Response by SPC Brian Stephens made May 16 at 2017 2:38 PM

SPC Brian Stephens — Tue, 16 May 2017 14:38:32 -0400

My vote is Created. I am not going to deny that scientists find these skulls, but the link from monkey to human is pure speculation and cannot be proven adequately.

Response by SGT Anna Kleinschmidt made May 16 at 2017 2:49 PM

SGT Anna Kleinschmidt — Tue, 16 May 2017 14:49:39 -0400

Interesting but I actually believe that God works through science. I believe in both Adam and Eve and evolution. I also believe in the Big Bang Theory. The Bible actually confirms all of this. But here is one of Dr Shroder's articles. He is very interesting to read. [http://geraldschroeder.com/wordpress/?page_id=60] make sure to read even more of his articles. This article is my favorite about the age of the universe. It answered so many questions I was not able to reconcile about the validity of the Bible [http://geraldschroeder.com/wordpress/?page_id=53] COL Mikel J. Burroughs CMSgt Mark Schubert SSG Leo Bell LTC Stephen F. PO1 William "Chip" Nagel PO1 John Miller,COL Ted Mc SFC Shirley Whitfield

Evolution Bible Style | Gerald Schroeder

What about dinosaurs? Why doesn’t the Bible mention dinosaurs? It’s a question posed by believers and skeptics alike. The former in an attempt to better understand the God’s role in the world; The latter to challenge the Bible’s authority. It is also the opening question I raise in The Science Of God. Extensive beds of fossils record the rise and demise of these amazing animals. There were swimming dinosaurs, running dinosaurs, even a form of...

Response by MSgt Stephen Council made May 16 at 2017 3:03 PM

MSgt Stephen Council — Tue, 16 May 2017 15:03:55 -0400

COL Mikel J. Burroughs Sorry, I aint touchin this one. Too hot "potato" for me.

Response by PO3 Christopher Jonah Nelson made May 16 at 2017 4:12 PM

PO3 Christopher Jonah Nelson — Tue, 16 May 2017 16:12:38 -0400

I find it amusing sometimes, frustrating other times, that people are so polarised about this issue. It seems that the only thing that everybody agrees upon is that God and the theory of evolution are mutually exclusive, which is something that I have a hard time wrapping my head around because if God created the universe, then he would have created the laws of the universe, which means evolution is something that God used to create the species which exist in the current age of the planet and prior. I don't honestly see how any kind of physical law could either prove or disprove the existence of a being who is said to have created all of the physical laws in the first place. I just can't comprehend any situation where the two could be mutually exclusive.

Response by Sgt John H. made May 16 at 2017 4:57 PM

Sgt John H. — Tue, 16 May 2017 16:57:33 -0400

Even if our creation was an accidental combination of amino acids in a pool of sludge, it was a Divine accident. And I mean IF...
I am a believer of the Bible. I have no problem reconciling science with God. God gave us a brain to think and make choices. Men have the choice to believe in the Big Bang or String theory and to stand above God and explain our creation as evolution from lower life forms... The truth has been written. I stand with Ben.

Response by SSgt Robert Marx made May 16 at 2017 5:22 PM

SSgt Robert Marx — Tue, 16 May 2017 17:22:43 -0400

I do appreciate the link COL Mikel J. Burroughs for I do try to keep up with the flow of archaeological discoveries. Paleontology is not my field; however, I believe in the God of Abraham, of Isaac, and of Israel. He did not create using evolutionary methods; rather, He spoke the word and they were all created. All of the species of earth came into instant existence. Adaption does enable animals to adjust to a changing environment.

Response by CPO Robert (Mac) McGovern made May 16 at 2017 5:28 PM

CPO Robert (Mac) McGovern — Tue, 16 May 2017 17:28:12 -0400

Since we have no idea how long a day was to God, I wonder if he created man to evolve through time to what he is today and wonder what he will be tomorrow.
(I use he to include both genders.)

Response by Private RallyPoint Member made May 16 at 2017 5:35 PM

Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 May 2017 17:35:12 -0400

I had read of this 'new' discovery awhile back. I do not accept the 'theory of evolution', as it has Not been proven to date. I did not ascend from monkeys.
My observations of modern mankind, lead me to believe that If evolution does occur it is more along the lines of devolving downward but never upward.
Dr. Louis Leakey, renowned anthropologist who dug in Africa for the better part of 40 years said that in his search for the origins of the human species, he Never found a 'missing link' but his discoveries led him further & further away from such a link.

Response by SPC Greg Carr made May 16 at 2017 7:09 PM

SPC Greg Carr — Tue, 16 May 2017 19:09:18 -0400

Many Muslim scientists wrote about evolution centuries before Darwin, for example:
Al-Jahiz (781-869 CE), a Muslim scholar based in present day Iraq, states in 'The Book of Animals':
"Animals engage in a struggle for existence; for resources, to avoid being eaten and to breed. Environmental factors influence organisms to develop new characteristics to ensure survival, thus transforming into new species. Animals that survive to breed can pass on their successful characteristics to offspring."

Ibn Khaldun, perhaps one of the most famous Muslim Polymaths of all time, published a book called 'The Muqadimmah' in 1377 CE. In it he states:
"One should then take a look at the world of creation. It started out from the minerals and progressed, in an ingenious, gradual manner, to plants and animals. The last stage of minerals is connected with the first stage of plants, such as herbs and seedless plants. The last stage of plants, such as palms and vines, is connected with the first stage of animals, such as snails and shellfish...
The animal world then widens, its species become numerous, and, in a gradual process of creation, it finally leads to man, who is able to think and reflect. The higher stage of man is reached from the world of monkeys, in which both sagacity and perception are found..."
There were also many other Muslim scholars, writing between the 9th and the 14th century, that expressed ideas similar to those of al-Jahiz and Ibn Khaldun. Persian scholar, Ibn Miskawahy (932-1030) provided perhaps the most vivid account of evolution from that period, seeking to harmonise it with the Quranic description of creation in the process.

^ from: http://www.thecommentator.com/article/2440/the_muslim_theory_of_evolution

One of God's names in the Qur'an is al-Khaliq, the Creator.
"He is Allah, al-Khaliq (the Creator), al-Bari' (the Evolver), al-Musawwir (the Former); to Him belong the best names. Whatever is in the heavens and earth is exalting Him. And He is the Exalted in Might, the Wise."
quran.com/59/24
What's peculiar in this ayah (verse) is the order of these names: Al-Khaliq, al-Bari', al-Musawwir.
Khāliq denotes the One who continues to plan, measure out and create, and who has the power to change things from non-existing to existing.
Bāri' denotes the way the One works with substances, often creating from existing matter, making and evolving that which is free and clear of any other thing, free and clear of imperfections.
Musawwir denotes the One who arranges forms and colors, and who is the shaper of beauty.

Why are the names stated in this order? The Creator [from nothing], the Evolver, the Former.
It's like the Qur'an is stating the method of creation: He created from nothing, then shaped and evolved His creation, then formed us into our different colors and forms. Incredibly accurate with evolutionary theories.

Read about the names here:
https://wahiduddin.net/words/99_pages/khaliq_11.htm

The Muslim theory of evolution - The Commentator

Denying evolution not only puts Muslims out of touch with established science, it puts them out of touch with their own scientific heritage

Response by LCpl Donald Faucett made May 16 at 2017 10:05 PM

LCpl Donald Faucett — Tue, 16 May 2017 22:05:50 -0400

The fact that people have vestigial organs from the digestive tract, changed, leaving an appenditcs(an organ which serves no purpose) for example. Tits on a male-vestigial organs, may implicate a use at one time. As we refined during evolution, the use of these organs became obsolete, and serve no purpose today. Thusly, so evidence does support fact that our bodies change with the times. Obesity, Americans set a fine example that life got too easy.

Response by PO3 John Wagner made May 16 at 2017 10:23 PM

PO3 John Wagner — Tue, 16 May 2017 22:23:08 -0400

Deipomorphism is sooooooo stupid. "Man limiting God's ability by attributing human characteristics to the creator." I am a man of great faith. I believe in a higher power that wants us to grow and evolve. Creationists don't believe in creation. They believe in an idea put forth 1000's of years ago by writers who though that the earth was flat, at the center of the universe, amongst myriad other ideas popular to the uneducated. Why are there so many people out here typing away on their computers... computers created by man using his God given intelligence..AND desire to learn and explore... who want to stick to these foolish old fairy tales? Anyone who wants to limit the abilities of God by what they themselves are able to understand is just as guilty of ignorance as the socialists who think they know what the universe wants man and mans society to become. Ignorance and arrogance are twins in that way. God isn't limited by mans imagination. What a horribly dreary world that would be.

Response by PO3 John Wagner made May 16 at 2017 10:55 PM

PO3 John Wagner — Tue, 16 May 2017 22:55:27 -0400

On a further note. I honestly never even bothered to look at the article. Don't need to. I'll have to now that I said so. My mind picks this stuff up and absorbs every bit of it so my storehouse is vast. I ceased to be amazed at evolution forever ago. Once it is accepted as fact then it is only interesting when something really unusual is found. But the concept once grasped is childishly simple and can be seen everywhere in everything we do. Everyl living and thinking creature evolves continuously or they die. As something of an aside, one of the few "innate" abilities we are born with... at least from an interesting perspective..is the visual cliff effect. If a very small baby is placed on a transparent surface, it will naturally move away from a "see through" area. Modern humans have primarily lost the natural abilities or instincts which we see exhibited in all manner of other creatures. We pretty much have to be taught almost everything from scratch. This however, is a trait shared by other more evolved primates and mammals. Large mammals in nature are more prone to supervising their young as opposed to outright force marching them through everything. This type of supervisory parenting, acting only when necessary to achieve a goal, is a higher trait. It is also a trait which successful predators share. The ability to be a successful hunter is dependent on adaptive strategy. When supplies of food are abundant then the parents have more time to allow the young to learn the skills for hunting. Nobody teaches birds how to build nests... they just do. Lions spend large amounts of time teaching the cubs to hunt. In a way it is a survival skill for their own old age. Only more advanced species prepare this way. Man however is the only animal I know of that is in the habit of destroying their own habitat. Perhaps we may evolve past tha point. After all are we not striving for that very goal at all times. We have public health and safety organizations to help avoid death by disease, poisoning or unsafe work environments. Beautification of our surroundings and attempts to reduce visual ugliness in all ways have been a pastime which goes back to our very roots. Look at the beauty of Ancient Rome, Babylon, ect. Personal appearance upgrades in the form of adapting the beauty of nature to ourselves from earliest times is also a sign of our evolution. God gave us the ability to create.. which of course includes by proxy the ability to destroy for selfish ends. Yet misguided as they may be, even the Socialists attempt to create a world of their own making. Once again the unfortunate fact of the Leftists rejection of moral and biblical guidance has to date doomed every one of their attempts to do so to dismal failure in short...though always tragic.. order. And on that subject, why do we seem so bent on reinventing that particular broken wheel so often, never seeming to learn even the most basic lessons from doing so.
It is common knowledge that repeating the same actions over and over again and expecting different results is an excellent definition of insanity. Yet the insidiousness of these repeated attempt leads to the conclusion that the Petri dish should be thoroughly sanitized. Alas that way leads also to destruction of creativity and the potential stagnation of human evolution as described in so many tales where it became illegal to innovate. What a disgusting knives edge all of civilization is balanced upon.

Response by PO1 Kevin Dougherty made May 17 at 2017 12:19 AM

PO1 Kevin Dougherty — Wed, 17 May 2017 00:19:21 -0400

Gotta come down on the side of the bible on this one. Evolution, not a chance. Not when you contemplate the complexity of even a single cell. Consider, Japanese scientists have recently measured the efficiencies of some of the molecular machines that operate inside of single cell organisms. They found that these molecular machines which perform such tasks as moving flagella, and transporting materials inside the cell operate at efficiencies of 100% or so close to it that any inefficiency can not be measured. We have not even come close with our best machines.

Further, statistically speaking, the odds of even a single cell organism forming out of "primordial soup" with all the mechanisms in place to enable survival and reproduction are so infinitesimal as to approach impossibility. The odds of a complex multi-cellular organism evolving in the same way far exceeds that limit. Plus keep in mind that with relatively few exceptions, those complex organisms would have to evolve in twos in the same time and the same place, male and female. We're talking tornado passing through a junk yard and leaving an intact and functioning Buff behind.

The very theory of evolution contradicts the law of entropy. Simply put entropy stipulates that there is a progressive move from order to disorder, while evolution states rather the opposite. Before someone says it, yes I know that modern theory has unified these two disparate things, but I find their reasoning rather convoluted and unconvincing at best.

Last but not least, my wife who majored in anthropology would be quick to point out that most of these "skeletons" are made from a ridiculously few fragments that may, or may not belong to the same creature. At least some, Lucy for one if I remember right, have since been found to be composed of different species. It would seem unlikely in this case, but I personally am not related to a chimpanzee sized primate.

Response by CW3 Harvey K. made May 17 at 2017 7:46 AM

CW3 Harvey K. — Wed, 17 May 2017 07:46:51 -0400

The best synthesis I've ever heard is "Science tells us HOW. Faith tells us WHO".

Response by PO3 John Wagner made May 17 at 2017 11:04 AM

PO3 John Wagner — Wed, 17 May 2017 11:04:05 -0400

"Thank you for this instructive day Sir."
'Cuthbert Allgood, "The Gunslinger."'
(I have striven for professional dialogue throughout this thread and have maintained any strong opinions for my own comments so as not to directly offend any one individual.)

Response by PO2 Dan Shulla made May 17 at 2017 11:14 AM

PO2 Dan Shulla — Wed, 17 May 2017 11:14:56 -0400

Perhaps neither but man was created. In the Mohawk language "Sanguiadisan" translates to "The one who created me"

Response by CMDCM John F. "Doc" Bradshaw made May 17 at 2017 11:48 PM

CMDCM John F. "Doc" Bradshaw — Wed, 17 May 2017 23:48:13 -0400

COL., I Believe God Created The Heaven and The Earth and ALL Things Therein including Man and Woman in HIS On Image!!! Also, I Believe Humans Have Evolved To What We Are Today But Not As The Darwin Theory Suggests! Each Person Has To Decide If They Believe In The Scientific Approach or The Word Of God in Living Words Of The Holy Bible!!! Merely My Opinion Sir! Doc Bradshaw

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 18 at 2017 7:40 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 18 May 2017 07:40:42 -0400

COL Mikel Burroughs, I believe in a Supreme Being (God) and creation but not the biblical account. I think evolution exist but not in the ape to man theory. I know am going to ruffle some feathers but every race came from the black race and ancient Egyptians and Ethiopians pre-date the biblical account of the world. So the bible to me is just one groups' account of their history. It is not mine. Humans have evolved in our intellectual abilities to survive but not in our shape.

Response by SP5 Jeannie Carle made May 19 at 2017 1:12 AM

SP5 Jeannie Carle — Fri, 19 May 2017 01:12:35 -0400

Personally, as a Christian, I believe we were created, BUT the Bible says we were created in His image - He is a Spirit. I don't think our physical body has a lot to do with much. And I also firmly believe that all living things on this planet are evolving. Too much proof of that to NOT believe. But do I believe we evolved from apes? Nope. I do not. If that were true, there wouldn't be apes. Now I need to go read the article and see how much of an idiot I've made of myself LOL

Response by MAJ Keira Brennan made May 21 at 2017 11:48 AM

MAJ Keira Brennan — Sun, 21 May 2017 11:48:20 -0400

I love this stuff~~~~~~~~~~

Response by SFC Charles Temm made May 26 at 2017 1:23 PM

SFC Charles Temm — Fri, 26 May 2017 13:23:33 -0400

Now I remember when "Lucy" from south central Africa was considered the furthest back common ancestor...sometimes I do think though anthropologists are guilty of wishful thinking though to get ancestral connections at times.

Response by Cpl Lawrence Lavictoire made Jun 14 at 2017 11:22 AM

Cpl Lawrence Lavictoire — Wed, 14 Jun 2017 11:22:35 -0400

MIKEL:
Lets keep it simple: if your walking in the Spirit daily, you already have your answer.
The answer is, "FAITH"! Kind of a simple term because it takes in "so very much". But its very profound.

Response by SP5 Dennis Loberger made Jun 9 at 2018 6:15 AM

SP5 Dennis Loberger — Sat, 09 Jun 2018 06:15:22 -0400

I believe evolution is a tool of God. Genesis has a simplified version of evolution spoken to man at his level of understanding at the time. I do not believe they are mutually exclusive but rather evidence of a powerful and understanding God

Response by SP5 Dennis Loberger made Aug 7 at 2019 9:01 PM

SP5 Dennis Loberger — Wed, 07 Aug 2019 21:01:28 -0400

I believe evolution was God's tool. I believe the first day, second day and so on was communication to man at his level at the time, not unlike our explanation to a child about something we think deserves an answer but know the full details are too much for understanding

Response by SPC Angela Burnham made Aug 7 at 2019 9:22 PM

SPC Angela Burnham — Wed, 07 Aug 2019 21:22:06 -0400

Heresy. Everyone knows that the Flying Spaghetti Monster produced the seas and land, along with Heaven and Man 5,000 years ago. Man and woman lived happily in the Olive Garden of Eden until the Flying Spaghetti Monster caused a global flood in a cooking accident. This is established historical fact, because my holy book says so.

Response by MSG Stan Hutchison made Aug 8 at 2019 10:48 AM

MSG Stan Hutchison — Thu, 08 Aug 2019 10:48:47 -0400

A never-ending argument. One side presents evidence, the other presents fictive thought.

I made my choice long ago.