Did you experience racism or sexism while serving and if so was it a rare or frequent occurrence?

SGT Alan Martinez — Fri, 20 Jan 2023 01:30:53 -0500

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Jan 20 at 2023 7:58 AM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Fri, 20 Jan 2023 07:58:22 -0500

Yes on both accounts. The military is huge, each base is a city unto itself. While we recruit the best we can screening each candidate for just such issues it is impossible to weed them all out. It will never totally go away.

But unlike the private sector we have tools to better deal with such issues, weeding them out after the fact. So the military is still a better place.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 20 at 2023 3:19 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 20 Jan 2023 15:19:43 -0500

The military is very sensitive to racism. I remember one time at NTC I was a CPL Medic at the time assigned to a new company and we were unloading storage containers. Due to how the containers and the trucks were situated, only one Soldier could move the equipment from the container to the truck at a time. Therefore we took turns being the person to unload it. Our group was very ethnically divers and multiple jokes were made such as: "Sure make the Mexican do all the work..." or "Sure make the Asian do all the work..." or "Sure make the White guy do all the work..." and all of these jokes while of poor taste were taken by the group as just that: jokes. There was no perceived harm and no one was offended (though maybe we should have been). Then after hours of unloading, the joke was made "Sure make the Black guy do all the work...". This caused a huge uproar, several people almost received UCMJ, and we were subjected to EO training for hours along with several other adverse actions. While such adverse action was likely warranted as a result of each of the jokes, it wasn't until a black person was the subject of the joke that it became an issue that almost warranted UCMJ and required all of the adverse action that our group received. This situation, in which the ramifications of the joke went from light hearted to rather grave for only one ethnicity of Soldiers is by definition racism.

This level of racism was not a common occurrence for me, but I did witness several instances of similar situations. I would say that in my experience racism in the Army is rare.

Response by LCpl Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 20 at 2023 4:28 PM

LCpl Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 20 Jan 2023 16:28:58 -0500

Hell yes...Im a Marine of Color. Does that answer your question? Stripped of rank by a Gunny, Same gunny that recommended me for chopper flight school. Go figure. MY FALT though.

Response by SA Donald Nance made Jan 20 at 2023 8:09 PM

SA Donald Nance — Fri, 20 Jan 2023 20:09:15 -0500

Sure did! U.S.S. Pawcatuck had a racist mess deck Chief Petty Officer who gave me so much hell I went from a Rm3 to SR in about 3 months. He wrote me up for getting sick not being able to handle a wall full of roaches after pulling the wood panel off the wall where you returned the dirty food trays. I kid you not. The mess decks were so infested you had you guard your food tray at the table and roaches would even drop from the overhead into your chow. Even when eating you had to pick your food carefully cause you might eat a piece of the bugs. Back to that wall.....it was about 20 feet wide with a window opening in the center to empty throw away food. There was not a place on the wall empty of roaches. We used ap shovel and 30 gallon trash can to scoop the dead bugs up after they were sprayed. On our ship we had no black officers so you can imagine. This was in the early 70's. How did I get to work on the mess hall being a radioman? When I first boarded the ship they told me it was initiation for new sailors for a month.....why did they keep me there for two months ? You guessed it.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 21 at 2023 12:43 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 21 Jan 2023 00:43:50 -0500

Funny story............ there was an E7 I knew when I was an E5.

He saw a female E5 walking though the building entrance as we were behind her going in as well. So he said to the female, what's up buttercup.

Because of the military regulations of hairstyles those with similar hair types end up with similar hear styles, and look very similar to each other, particularly from behind and of the same age, race, gender and height and hair color.

I saw who the person he referred to was because I had a slightly different line of sight.

Before I could stop him because the words "what's up" without even any other intent that follows was not appropriate to the actual person in front of us, the word buttercup slipped out. Who he thought it was what not who it was.

The word Buttercup caused the female soldier to stop in her tracks and turn around.

I in my puny E5 status had to hold immense laughter deep deep inside.

It wasn't the female SGT, it was the female LTC.

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA The female SGT of original intent, myself and the SFC are all great friends and the comment would have been fine, but it was one of the better moments in my life to see him get lit the fuck up out in the open. If was hilarious.

Just one of those early learning moments. Always be professional. It nearly cost him his AGR job. We joke about it now (him being retired and collecting a check).

Response by SFC Kelly Fuerhoff made Jan 21 at 2023 1:01 PM

SFC Kelly Fuerhoff — Sat, 21 Jan 2023 13:01:29 -0500

SFC Bernard Walko
Posted 2 h ago
I must be fortunate that I served with any race/color you can think of in the 80’s and never witnessed and racism. We were all treated like shit! It was a good time to be a soldier.

Based on your profile photo, I think you definitely had some blinders on...

Response by SFC Marc W. made Jan 21 at 2023 1:48 PM

SFC Marc W. — Sat, 21 Jan 2023 13:48:28 -0500

When I was a private myself and another soldier had a run of racism from a staff sergeant. I took it to EO after a few incidents of clear bias, presented those to the EO rep and just said I want it to stop. He was moved to another unit shortly after.

I have seen other incidents not involving me occur the same way, with good results. I saw the system fail soldiers. I even saw people abuse the system in order to protect themselves from their own misconduct.

The system was better than most I've seen, especially being back in the civilian world now.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 21 at 2023 4:23 PM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 21 Jan 2023 16:23:09 -0500

Great question. I have been in for a decade and a half now. I'd prefer to speak on my experience in the current military generation, let's say the past 3-4 years.

I had a great NCO at Campbell recently, we will call her SGT Smith. Our first few training events had me depending on SGT Smith, which was fine because I thought she was great and everyone had told me as much. However, she made some rookie mistakes. Moreover, I saw potential so I usually gave her a lot of feedback. I remember a couple conversations where things quickly turned from me saying, "this is what I saw, tell me what you're thinking" to "however you do something is up to you, but If I tell you that you will do something, you better do it." At the time, I saw it as the natural ebbs and flows of working with someone new, plus the natural shit LTs have to deal with and navigate. No big deal, I figured we were both learning.

Come to find out, she asked the commander if I was racist. She thought I was singling her out and giving her shit she didn't deserve. In the end, me and SGT Smith had no issues and I did everything I could to advance her way to E6, but to this day I don't really know why she felt my actions were racist. 6 months later, I got a high-speed NCO who pushed the envelope when it came to respect. I pulled them to the side the first time believing it a unique situation, but after the second time I brought them into my office and it was put on paper, as my NCO counterpart sitting across from me voiced their agreement. I heard that they thought I might be racist.

For a variety of reasons, Soldiers today jump to race too quickly. The fundamental questions, like the 5 W's and the facts at hand, are not put upfront and looked at through a lense of military character and moral values, but through modern social categories and racial bias. Moreover, racial concerns often seem to be thrown around but never in a way that they can actually be handled. I only found out that these two NCOs thought I was racist because other leaders who I had earned respect from told me what was going on. I wish those Soldiers could have approached me, or my NCO counterpart, so frustrations weren't brewing in the background. The policy we have on EO, to handle things at the lowest level if possible, is there for good reason. I would have loved to have had my perspective challenged as a new LT and be told that when I did A, B, and C it came off as racist. Doing so would have helped me change whatever the hell I was doing, for the good of everybody. But, that never happened. Instead, I got second-hand notifications and never learned exactly why these people thought the way they did. From afar, it seemed liked, "The LT is picking on me, LTs are idiots, the LT must be a racist."

I had a very diverse group of Soldiers with people from 6 countries and all regions of the US. I was thrilled about the diversity and I learned a lot of other people's cultures. As well, I was the EO rep at nearly every level, all the way from company to brigade when our EOA deployed and I covered for him. I saw more of the same in the complaints I handled, and my preference was always to address the issue head-on. I made progress this way and the BDE CSM gave me a seal of approval when he told the commander "I like the way he does business".

So, my experience of racism was technically rare, but indicative of problems the Army has been citing for a while. Racial tension is present in the ranks, but in order to deal with it we need to have difficult conversations with each other about what we see and think. Those conversations won't be easy and they won't go perfectly. Yet, We can't change anything if we don't say anything. The best sections I have been apart of were with people who would always tell me what they were thinking. That's a core tenet of our beloved U.S. military; imbuing a strong bias for action, not only in our missions but in our character.

Response by CMSgt Marcus Falleaf made Jan 22 at 2023 2:55 PM

CMSgt Marcus Falleaf — Sun, 22 Jan 2023 14:55:01 -0500

Never experienced it or witnessed it We were all green.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 22 at 2023 5:14 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 22 Jan 2023 17:14:09 -0500

Racism, YES, through out my 4 years in the army, but I didn't dwell on it, and moved on with my life.

I did in 1972, get blocked at the hotel entrance in San Francisco, because I was told no Orientals allowed.
And in Fayetteville NC 1974, at a Greek restaurant, I was refused to be served my food, but when it did get served, after 1 hour, it was burnt.
And, most of all, in January of 1974, coming back from the DMZ Korea, I got spit on, called a baby killer, and murder, at the San Francisco airport.
Maybe they didn't like the color of my green uniform. Lol

Response by CSM William Everroad made Jan 23 at 2023 8:59 AM

CSM William Everroad — Mon, 23 Jan 2023 08:59:20 -0500

SGT Alan Martinez, I like 1LT Private RallyPoint Member's POV. I will give you my experience from junior NCO to Senior NCO: I have dealt with racism (or even gender based) complaints, been investigated myself a couple times, and participated in UCMJ for those who were charged.

I started out like a few of the commenters here, "not seeing any color but green". I felt like everyone was treated poorly and if someone was getting yelled at, it was because they were a screwup.

As I moved through the ranks, I never witnessed direct discrimination, rather the subtle BS, bias, and racist things that we encounter in the public. But I had to deal with those who had experienced, witnessed, or executed it. I have heard the jokes, the offhand comments of "those people" and their stereotypes, and the disgruntlement about "cliches".

I have met plenty of leaders who choose to believe in the everyone is green philosophy and they tend to be more blind to actual discrimination. I am not saying I haven't had my fair share of minority Soldiers "jumping to conclusions" in their accusations, but I have also had my fair share of those who where genuinely discriminated against. It is enough for me to take every allegation seriously.

I am sometimes feel saddened that there is a subset of our brave, competent Soldiers that are not treated the same as everyone else because of their race (or gender) and try to to my part to level the playing field by leveling those who are toxic.

For anyone that does not believe there is an issue, several congressional investigations beg to differ. It's going on and if it happens under our watch we may be to blame, we set the culture of tolerance/intolerance.