Did we give up free speech when we joined?

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 31 Oct 2014 21:29:28 -0400

Once again there is a debate of whether an article should have been pulled because it mentioned God and faith. Did we give up freedom of speech when we joined the military?

http://www.christiantoday.com/article/colonels.column.encouraging.officers.to.trust.in.jesus.is.pulled.from.us.air.force.newsletter/42435.htm

Colonel's column encouraging officers to trust in Jesus is pulled from US Air Force newsletter

A colonel who wrote encouraging words about trusting in Jesus in times of stress has had his column pulled from an Air National Guard newsletter.

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Oct 31 at 2014 9:43 PM

SFC Mark Merino — Fri, 31 Oct 2014 21:43:40 -0400

When you are in a position of power, it is very inappropriate to share your personal views on your subordinates. It is not the right forum to say the least.

Response by PO1 Steven Kuhn made Oct 31 at 2014 10:17 PM

PO1 Steven Kuhn — Fri, 31 Oct 2014 22:17:28 -0400

I do not believe we ever give up free speech because we are on active duty or retired from the military. Freedom of speech does not mean we have to agree on everything or anything except for the fact that we will respect one another regardless of our differences. If we maintain respect, we can maintain intelligent communication and learn things from sources we may not have thought of before. Freedom of speech is at its best when both or all involved maintain attitudes of respect regardless of our differences.

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Nov 1 at 2014 7:30 AM

MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca — Sat, 01 Nov 2014 07:30:05 -0400

Good question Brian! Unfortunately to some degree yes, we do. We can't be openly critical of the CofC, we can't promote individual beliefs, etc. That being said, it has gotten much worse in recent years due to the uber-political correctness trend in this country. This article bumps it up yet another level.

Response by MSgt Dennis Dudley made Nov 1 at 2014 9:29 AM

MSgt Dennis Dudley — Sat, 01 Nov 2014 09:29:36 -0400

That loss of freedom of speech is mainly brought about by social liberals. When a person can not express their views and beliefs because of offending someone (meanwhile the opposing view is shoved down our throats without retribution) we have a problem.

Response by CMSgt James Nolan made Nov 1 at 2014 10:41 AM

CMSgt James Nolan — Sat, 01 Nov 2014 10:41:43 -0400

To some degree, yes. I am a part of something bigger than myself. My statements represent that larger unit. I cannot make disparaging posts about my chain of command...and that goes all the way up. That does not mean that I blindly agree with every statement or policy.

If I openly disparage the chain of command, or for example the office of the President, what are my troops to think?

As a leader, I must temper my opinions and be an example for my troops. The failure of leaders to do this will result in the erosion of confidence by our Nation of her military, and of our troops in their leadership.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 1 at 2014 10:51 AM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 01 Nov 2014 10:51:04 -0400

Freedom of speech is protected speech to criticize the government not a person/institution or otherwise. While the service is government it is also a place of employment and a private institution. Those that say we lose free speech also may not understand that you cannot criticize your boss in the civilian world either, if you want to stay employed. The only thing that I can see is the threat of jail time within the service, which is rarely used, but more than likely you would more than likely discharged and shown the door much like in the civilian world if you did the same thing.

As a private citizen (not using position of uniformed service) I can still protest, write to editors, share my opinion to others. It is when I take on the mantle of rank and service that I have crossed the line, which if I never served my words would have no less meaning. It is individuals or the media that try to associate the military to an idea and not the person when a SM makes a statement under the mantle of service. Who cares what John Baker says about war, but an AF SNCO making a comment about war that is something.

Response by PV2 Abbott Shaull made Jan 4 at 2015 6:25 PM

PV2 Abbott Shaull — Sun, 04 Jan 2015 18:25:10 -0500

We gave up a lot of Rights that if we were civilians we would enjoy. Now with that said, I would hate to see what some of the historical speeches that have been passed down through the generations would look like today if Commanders back in the day had to deal Regulations that Commanders today deal with on the daily basis. Such as the speech that General Eisenhower had drafted and distributed to the troop, before D-Day. Would it pass the muster of the Regulation today? Every General from Washington in 1776 to Tommy Franks in Bahgdad have given speeches in one form or another, and how many of them would have to been rejected for not passing the current Standards.

It is sad when it seems almost every other Religious faith has one standard applied to it, and Christians have another applied to it. So if the good Colonel has used the world Allah, would anyone have objected for the same reason? Or would the objection would of been for pushing Muslim faith? When we live in world that it seem alright suppress Christianity, but allow other faiths to be openly express and used in class to teach Humanity classes, can you tell me what is wrong with this seemly double standard.

There is a time when you have to say enough is enough, when you have to step up and take a stand, and make sure that if they are going ban one, they ban all equally. It is just insulting when someone is just expressing a simple believe, he wasn't pushing no one to rush out and find a Christian church and join it now. Wasn't quoting scripture. Just saying what he personally believes, and that your milage may vary. Get over it people, people all the time while writing similar papers put in passages like this, and I don't see every wise cracker objecting to them because you don't believe as the person who wrote it. Next thing people will telling us that during the next Presidential Election we can vote for anyone we want to, as long as we vote for this one candidate.

Response by Maj Chris Nelson made Jan 4 at 2015 7:56 PM

Maj Chris Nelson — Sun, 04 Jan 2015 19:56:53 -0500

Of course we lost freedom of speech. If we had not lost it, then people in the service could make political statements without retribution, be involved in political causes/marches/etc. It is in the best interest of maintaining good order an conduct.

Response by SGT Michael Glenn made Jan 4 at 2015 11:42 PM

SGT Michael Glenn — Sun, 04 Jan 2015 23:42:43 -0500

I voted Yes to some degree because we did, but it should never stop anyone at voicing their opinions concerns and beliefs, just have to learn how to do it tactfully.

Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 5 at 2015 5:40 PM

SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 05 Jan 2015 17:40:47 -0500

When we signed our contract to serve it is with the inherent knowledge that we are choosing to join an organization that is built on unity. We give up many things to continue in that service and a small part of is some of the freedom of speech. Not all of it and the part we retain is governed by the uniform you put on. You are allowed to say and express what you want but there is always a consequence to any action wether it is verbal or written. It can be negative or positive consequences depending on how the said action is perceived by others.

Response by Capt Richard I P. made Jan 8 at 2015 5:12 PM

Capt Richard I P. — Thu, 08 Jan 2015 17:12:44 -0500

We opted in to limited freedoms, for increased efficiency in protecting the freed of others.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 26 at 2015 9:56 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 26 Jan 2015 09:56:04 -0500

Free Speech vs Public Speech e.g. type; "I'm going to kill the old man", see how fast I notify Federal Authorities of a threat. I see it all the time outside the RP community. Online typed activities by active SM's which violate UCMJ codes, or Title 18 USC law should be punishable in real-time.

Response by LTC Ray B. (Ret) made Jan 28 at 2015 10:11 AM

LTC Ray B. (Ret) — Wed, 28 Jan 2015 10:11:21 -0500

Our chain of command goes from the team leader all the way up to the POTUS and includes all in between. We can voice a concern but in no way can we slander or cast dispersions on our superiors.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 7 at 2015 12:42 PM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 07 Jul 2015 12:42:42 -0400

I have learnt that the army is not a democracy!

Response by SFC Jeremy Stocker made Jul 7 at 2015 12:52 PM

SFC Jeremy Stocker — Tue, 07 Jul 2015 12:52:10 -0400

There are thing that we cannot say as active duty members of the military. Like bad mouthing the Commander and Chief. (Thank God I am Retired) You can however talk about religion, and even politics to a degree. Having your own thoughts is different than expressing them to the world. That being said as service member things that we say can be construed by the general public as how our specific branch or even the Military in general feels. Some time you have to bite your tongue, but that comes with the territory.

Response by SPC Jan Allbright, M.Sc., R.S. made Jul 7 at 2015 1:07 PM

SPC Jan Allbright, M.Sc., R.S. — Tue, 07 Jul 2015 13:07:13 -0400

I think your Civil Rights are in abeyance while you are in. You are fully protected by the User Friendly UCMJ.
Also, a Military Base in not "Public" and it is only in the public space that your rights are protected. You have no Freedom of Speech or any other right while on private property (as in your local mall).

Response by SSgt Terry P. made Aug 17 at 2015 5:01 PM

SSgt Terry P. — Mon, 17 Aug 2015 17:01:27 -0400

I believe we did to some degree. A civilian has more freedom to say what he wants in many areas that a person in the military does not,