Did basic training got easier over the years?

2014-05-04T18:55:11-04:00

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made May 4 at 2014 7:00 PM

2014-05-04T19:00:19-04:00

I think so. I joined in 2008 and went to an all male basic at FT Sill. It was challenging. Now I hear IET Soldiers get 8hrs of sleep daily and have their cell phones. I also see them on pass a lot.

Response by MAJ Bryan Zeski made May 4 at 2014 7:02 PM

2014-05-04T19:02:32-04:00

The perceived difficulty of your basic training is exponentially and positively proportionate to how long its been since you went to basic training. The further back you went to basic training, the easier today's basic training seems to you in comparison. For example, if you went to basic training in the 1980s, today's basic training seems like a Disneyland Vacation. If you went in the 1990s, today's basic seems more like a Boy Scout Jamboree. If you went in the 2000s, today's (Army) basic seems like Air Force Basic.

Except for Marines - they just like to suffer all the time.

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made May 4 at 2014 7:52 PM

2014-05-04T19:52:24-04:00

I don't know about easier but probably more high tech more user friendly, I would love to try the new General Quarters/War Simulator they have at Great Mistakes.

Response by CPT Jacob Swartout made May 4 at 2014 9:16 PM

2014-05-04T21:16:39-04:00

SFC Regis,
I will let you know here soon enough. I am taking command in a few weeks. Can't give you an honest answer yet, but will once I'm settled in as CDR. A lot has changed since the mid 90s and I know basic training is different from when I went at Ft. Knox.

Response by SGM Matthew Quick made May 4 at 2014 11:22 PM

2014-05-04T23:22:56-04:00

How can you even gauge this without going through over the years?

Response by 1SG Mike Case made May 5 at 2014 10:34 AM

2014-05-05T10:34:55-04:00

It has and it is partly because of us who have went through before. When I went through basic, there were still times a Drill Sergeant would put hands on you or you wouldn't eat because you did something wrong. Sure Soldiers want discipline and don't want things given to them, but when we had our "sensing session" we complained about the things we thought could be better. Those changes didn't happen immediately, but they did, so in part, my "bitches, gripes, and complaints" made Basic Training easier. Soldiers probably bitched saying it was easier to use their cellphones to call home instead of using the payphone and voila, changes happened. Each generation made it easier in some way, shape, or form for the ones who follwed them.

Response by Cpl Christopher Allen-Shinn made May 5 at 2014 3:07 PM

2014-05-05T15:07:40-04:00

Marine Corps Recruit Training lasts 13 weeks, so we can claim to suffer the longest relative to the other services. I went through it in 1997, when they were still introducing the Crucible as the cumulative exercise that all Marines had to pass in order to earn the title of U.S. Marine and the right to wear the Eagle, Globe, and Anchor. The Crucible was controversial when first implemented, as was the shift from boxing to pugil sticks and the implementation of Marine Corps Martial Arts, but I think that all of these shifts have worked out reasonably well.

The main controversy (friendly rivalry among boots) among male Marines is whether one suffered at Paris Island, SC (all men east of the Mississippi R. & all women) or at MCRD San Diego (all men west of the Mississippi R.). Clearly, if that's the only issue, then we're producing a sound product, right? Our performance in OEF/OIF would seem to argue that the answer is "yes!"

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made May 5 at 2014 3:18 PM

2014-05-05T15:18:14-04:00

Has TRADOC ever put out any form of study or graph that illustrates the amount of attrition in Basic Training throughout the decades?

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 5 at 2014 6:52 PM

2014-05-05T18:52:58-04:00

Easier.. I don't know what you mean by that term. You still have to Qualify on a Rifle, throw 2 hand grenades, and pass your PT Test. So I would say Academically nothing in my opinion has changed. However everything else has.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 8 at 2015 1:15 PM

2015-01-08T13:15:22-05:00

It has changed, but I do not believe it has gotten easier. More training requirements and drill sergeants are tasked to train with more strictness of following Tradoc Regulation 350-6. Privates enjoy more liberties like using cell phones during the off duty hours.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 8 at 2015 2:25 PM

2015-01-08T14:25:51-05:00

Basic (for the Navy) has definitely become a lot easier. I went through it in a stride, and definitely did not feel challenged one bit.

Every time I talk to someone that went through basic a long time ago, they are surprised at how easy it is. They'll ask me a question about how I enjoyed this or that (sarcastically) and when I mention that we don't do that anymore, they look at me round eyed and shocked. I mean c'mon, no physical contact? If a recruit has a temper tantrum nowadays in boot camp, they just get escorted out of the compartment, and it's dealt with there. With the way things are now, what can the RDCs at Great Lakes do if someone decided to say, "No. Go F@$% yourself." Nothing, really. Maybe call it in and wait for someone to escort this recruit away.

I was wondering the other day, what would happen if they took volunteers for recruits to go through an old styled basic training with the physical contact and all that and pushed a whole division like that through. I personally believe we would have some amazing leaders from that division.

Response by SFC Kelly Fuerhoff made Aug 9 at 2017 10:01 AM

2017-08-09T10:01:29-04:00

Did it *get easier? From what I've heard from two friends who have been drill sergeants in the last several years - they have told me that they have had their hands tied as drill sergeants. I tagged a friend in a video of a shark attack that was from a few years ago I assume. I asked her "Can you still do this?" She said "Barely." She said they can't swear at the trainees but around them. She said it's horrible. The other one told me about the same thing. It sounds like there is a lot of bs going on.

Response by MSgt Richard Randall made Aug 9 at 2017 10:14 AM

2017-08-09T10:14:33-04:00

I wouldn’t know how hard basic is today. Having gone through basic in 1970 all I can say is it was very physical, very hot, very intense and never ending. Except for the food poisoning from the chow hall, I enjoyed every minute of it. Unlike today, we didn’t have to suffer through smart phone withdrawal or waiting to see the next episode of Game of Thrones.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 14 at 2017 9:03 AM

2017-08-14T09:03:40-04:00

YES !!! its unfortunate but it did.

Response by SFC William Stephens made Aug 14 at 2017 2:33 PM

2017-08-14T14:33:20-04:00

It don't mater what kind of leader you are It's what comes from higher and what I see how the ARMY has changed do to women going to combat arms Basics and AIT standards had to drop to ensure the we had the right amount of soldiers coming through the ranks. No more 4 hours of Sleep and no more sand pits and more MF'er this MF'er that, Please and thank you ARMY.
REALLY!

Response by PVT Raymond Lopez made Aug 15 at 2017 1:05 AM

2017-08-15T01:05:49-04:00

From what I have been told the United States Army has been going to Hell since Valley Forge. Honestly though I think every generation seems to get a little better than the last one.

Response by SGT Charles Ludwigsen made Aug 21 at 2017 1:37 PM

2017-08-21T13:37:51-04:00

Well, I went through BCT in 1983 - Ft Knox. It was hard. It was 8 weeks. Airborne school was harder in many ways.
My son is at Ft Sill as I write this. Just finished week 5 of 10. So at a minimum, it is longer. I'll let you know when I meet him at graduation. I would say some things may seem easier, some harder. But the gas chamber sucks for all generations. As to those speculating about the cell phones, yes, they get to use them WHEN they get to make a call because no pay phones anymore. He called the first day - and I will tell you that was not an easy call to receive as a dad. They were certainly doing their jobs as Drill Sergeants. He called again after week four phase completion to "white" phase from "red" phase. You would think he is having a blast. He has been up-beat and positive in his letters and making the most of every bit of his training.
Basic training, like most worthwhile and difficult tasks, depends on the mental attitude you go in with and how well you keep it. If the goal matters, it sucks for a while but gets better. If fear is where your head lives, prepare for the worst ten weeks of your life. Maybe you should have chosen a different task.
Is it easier? I doubt it. But my hope is that it is the training he needs to thrive and survive regardless of where he is stationed and/or deployed.

Response by LtCol George Carlson made Aug 21 at 2017 4:40 PM

2017-08-21T16:40:22-04:00

While things have changed, even in the USMC, since I went through in '64 (No, not 1864, 1964) I have always observed that if Boot Camp got as much easier as we all perceive as fast as we all perceive, then it would now be a kindergarten birthday party. Boot camp for me now (at 72) would be a real physical challenge that probably exceeds what my body can do, but mentally it would be easy. You see, I am just not scared or as impressed by a Corporal in the Marine Corps as I was as a recruit -- certainly not in the same way.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 21 at 2017 4:57 PM

2017-08-21T16:57:10-04:00

Lack of sleep and not being able to use your cell phone doesn't equate to better training. You can have creature comforts and still accomplish the mission or have amazing training.

Response by SN Sean Willson made Aug 22 at 2017 8:35 AM

2017-08-22T08:35:35-04:00

I was Navy, second only to Airforce in ease, yet still way tougher than AF. I joined in 88, separated in 92. I don't think I've slept eight straight since 6/6/88.

Response by SGT Christopher Lachcik made Aug 22 at 2017 1:20 PM

2017-08-22T13:20:05-04:00

Yes. It has.

Response by SGT John Pearson made Jan 3 at 2018 1:03 PM

2018-01-03T13:03:59-05:00

Did basic/AIT in '81, then did Infantry training at Benning in '88. Biggest difference was DIs couldn't cuss you anymore. I think Army training is lesser because of the lack of colorful profanity. Didn't think I would miss it, but I did!

Response by SPC David Willis made Jan 3 at 2018 1:14 PM

2018-01-03T13:14:01-05:00

I mean we had a guy die in our BCT class and that was in 07 so I guess "easier" is all relative.

Response by SGT Robert Mcfadden made Aug 17 at 2018 5:21 PM

2018-08-17T17:21:36-04:00

June 83, Ft Leonard wood. I lived in quansut hut with concrete floors, the latrine was across the gravel lot. I didn't see a pass until AIT. Lotsa boot shining and area maintenance. Standing in line for the phone booth if you had any time to call home.

Response by SGT Larry Reed made Aug 18 at 2018 9:43 AM

2018-08-18T09:43:01-04:00

No cell phones in basic training!

Response by SPC Patricia K. (Williams) Elliott made Aug 18 at 2018 1:40 PM

2018-08-18T13:40:19-04:00

Back in 1974 there were no cell phones, just land lines and 8 hours of sleep never happened. We were lucky to get 4 or 5 hours and sometimes not even that much. Couldn't make a phone call until the 4th week and even that wasn't guaranteed. I will admit, when I went through Basic we did not have the weapons training but we did a lot of running and PT!! I suppose you could say it was easier in 1974 but it was hard then!!

Response by SSG Lyle O'Rorke made May 9 at 2019 6:41 PM

2019-05-09T18:41:23-04:00

I would say basic in general is definitely different today than when I went thru. But that is due to 9/11 happening just as we hit White phase. So we had to stand down for a day or two while everything was figured out. We had to pull entry control points and roving guard duty along with CQ and fire watch. We lost supplies due to them be taken for units that were rolling out. It was a different experience. We did get an extra call on The night of Sept. 11 to check on family members but we still did training just were in the FPCON D and C until graduation.

Response by SFC Don Ward made May 9 at 2019 7:50 PM

2019-05-09T19:50:56-04:00

No more end of cycle test or “infantry” tasks.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 10 at 2019 12:02 AM

2019-05-10T00:02:23-04:00

I graduated basic as a non-infantry BCT class at Ft. Benning in Feb, 2017, and was a part of the last all-male graduating class (we saw the first females going through OSUT in reception when we were fitting ASU’s). I can’t speak to how Basic was back in the day, but my experience may be helpful for this thread. Yes, all DS cursed at us, all the time, relentlessly. Yes, they woke us up in the middle of the night and put us on the line or in the company area and smoked us for someone failing on fire watch. Yes, we even “earned” the privilege of using our cell phones a few times for a designated period of time under supervision. It’s probably very similar to the experience of the previous generations in some ways, and in others (phone usage sometimes, “designated sleep time”, and such) seems foreign. But I posit this, remember the current generation. As flawed and dumb as we are, this is the crop from which the Army can pull. The standards don’t change. But the battlefield does. When the battlefield changes, and the Soldier changes, so do the conditions of warfare and of training.

P.s. stress cards aren’t a thing.

Response by 2LT Private RallyPoint Member made May 10 at 2019 12:29 AM

2019-05-10T00:29:17-04:00

I was at MRT on Fort Jackson last week. A trainee saluted me with her cellphone in her right hand. Three others behind her didn't render customs and courtesies.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made May 10 at 2019 10:19 AM

2019-05-10T10:19:29-04:00

I have no frame of reference to answer this question. I only went to basic training once. ;-)

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made May 10 at 2019 10:54 AM

2019-05-10T10:54:29-04:00

When I went to Infantry OSUT at Valley Forge, Baron Von Stueben made us into real men.
The rest of you that came afterwards are a bunch of Marys.

Response by PVT Raymond Lopez made May 11 at 2019 6:09 AM

2019-05-11T06:09:39-04:00

At my age I wquld not do it again!!!!!

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made May 11 at 2019 12:10 PM

2019-05-11T12:10:33-04:00

The Spartans would think so.