What can I do about a debt to the government from 2018 and nobody is still in the unit for me to contact?

CPL Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 23 Jan 2022 18:17:53 -0500

So I got out of the National guard in 2018, my gear was left at my unit. And just recently like a month ago I get a bill for 4500 for the gear I left at my unit, nobody is still in the unit for me to contact and I live across the country now

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 23 at 2022 7:47 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 23 Jan 2022 19:47:48 -0500

Usually you would've had to clear CIF to outprocess. Is that different in the guard?

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 23 at 2022 8:04 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 23 Jan 2022 20:04:50 -0500

Unless you have a hand receipt showing a name and signature of someone taking possession of your gear....yea, you're on the hook for that $4,500

Response by SFC Ralph E Kelley made Jan 23 at 2022 8:38 PM

SFC Ralph E Kelley — Sun, 23 Jan 2022 20:38:17 -0500

What state? Criminal investigations special agents are primarily responsible for investigating any criminal allegations/offenses related to the Army National Guard. They handle felony-level crimes that involve Army National Guard property and Army National Guard personnel. The Guard is overseen at the federal level by the National Guard Bureau - that would be where you submit your complaint provided you have departed the Guard.
Also be aware there are active scam mails out there that try to take money from discharged military by demanding they pay bogus 'debts'.
If you signed a DA Form 2062. They have to be renewed every 30 days. In the case of change of unit, with any missing equipment, the burden of proof is on the unit to prove that the soldier ensconced with the property, in which case CID would be contacting you, not a bean counter.
AR 735-5 shows the property accountability/responsibility.
AR 710-2 directs commanders to sub hand receipt equipment down to the user level.
Another thing is the unit policy. If the unit policy says inventory and hand receipt renewals are every 30 days and if you have been gone for 3 years then the chain of custody for the equipment has been broken. Thereby the unit Commander is responsible for the lost equipment. This is per AR 710-2.
However if you just handed over individual equipment and ran for the bushes then you mayhap be accountable. If you gave the equipment to a member of your chain of command I would recommend you talk to JAG. They may have turned it into supply/S4 and not forwarded a hand receipt to you. If you gave it to supply/S4 the same reason applies to your issue.
At any rate, lost equipment, hand receipt/no hand receipt, bogus bill,, stolen or simply error,
- I recommend you talk to MPI or an Army JAG.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 24 at 2022 9:10 AM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 24 Jan 2022 09:10:55 -0500

When you say your gear was "left at your unit", do you mean you signed it over to a unit Supply NCO, or you just left it there?
If you signed it over, and kept the hand receipt, you can provide a copy of that.
If you simply "left it there", then you made a poor decision that costs about $4,500.

Response by SSgt Christophe Murphy made Jan 24 at 2022 9:14 AM

SSgt Christophe Murphy — Mon, 24 Jan 2022 09:14:30 -0500

I would reach out to the current supply rep for the Unit to figure out what's going on. Considering this is potentially 4 years after the fact you may need to get a lawyer.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 24 at 2022 10:32 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 24 Jan 2022 10:32:05 -0500

Hand receipt or it didn't happen... Hopefully you have it, if not I would bet you are gonna have to pay the 4500. Best of luck getting ahold of someone!

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Jan 24 at 2022 12:00 PM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Mon, 24 Jan 2022 12:00:42 -0500

So you knowingly didn't clear CIF before leaving? Yeah, that's on you.

Response by SFC Kelly Fuerhoff made Jan 24 at 2022 1:50 PM

SFC Kelly Fuerhoff — Mon, 24 Jan 2022 13:50:52 -0500

Looks like you're paying $4500...unless you have proof that you signed it over to someone else but that doesn't sound likely. If there's no one in the unit, then that gear is probably gone; divided up between those who were there most likely.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 24 at 2022 5:43 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 24 Jan 2022 17:43:06 -0500

It appears that $4,500 of accountability = a priority.

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Response by MAJ Geiter Dunn made Jan 26 at 2022 10:24 PM

MAJ Geiter Dunn — Wed, 26 Jan 2022 22:24:09 -0500

Do you have unit/post clearance papers? Did unit supply sign off?
Did they do a Report of Survey?
Is there an official Cash Collection Voucher?
Check all your paperwork. If it's signed, make copies, send them to the unit.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 28 at 2022 2:52 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 28 Jan 2022 14:52:10 -0500

I wen through a scenario very similar to this with a Soldiet who transferred to my Guard company from the Reserves. The Reserves tried to FLIPL him for an entire set of gear that he turned into his previous Supply SGT, but the Soldier was smart enough to keep the turn in document years later. I contacted that Supply SGT, sent him the signed 3645, he shit his pants, and the Soldier ended up being fine.

If you have 0 paperwork on from your unit, there is very little that Supply SGT is going to be able do for you. You’re on the financial hook until 6 years after your ETS.

Response by SFC Barbara Layman made Mar 8 at 2022 8:47 AM

SFC Barbara Layman — Tue, 08 Mar 2022 08:47:39 -0500

First question - HOW were you notified and by whom?

IF you received notice by snail mail from the US Dept of Treasurey (IRS) that you have a debt to the government the amount of which is being withheld from any Federal Tax Return, you can be sure that the issue was forwarded by the state in which you served.

My suggestion is to contact the State SPFO for copies of the pertinent records. They should have copies of all transactions reported by the unit.

It is not necessary for you to contact the unit. The necessary documents are in the State Archives.

Response by Maj David J Carter made Mar 14 at 2022 12:42 PM

Maj David J Carter — Mon, 14 Mar 2022 12:42:36 -0400

Do you have any out processing paperwork, every unit , I've ever been in you can out process without getting a sign off from supply, even if you never got anything from them. As others have mentioned always keep your hand receipts....also make 100%vsure it's legit....there are scams out there

Response by SGT Reginald Tyler made Mar 26 at 2022 7:53 AM

SGT Reginald Tyler — Sat, 26 Mar 2022 07:53:22 -0400

Find the main HQ of the unit you left and have them do a Report of Survey, the unit you left were responsible for your gear and if they did not have you sign it over then they are at fault for the miss placement of the gear. IE: My guard unit was activated, I was assigned to Med hold company, I ended going to Walter Reed and having cancer surgery. Med hold moved while I was in the hospital and my gear was still in the locker I was assigned. I never returned to the base and they tried to charge me for the missing gear. All of that is on the supply sgt to insure when you out process to clear your hand receipt or in act a ROS,SOC or any type of loss to the master hand receipt.

Response by SPC Bob Mesna made Mar 26 at 2022 1:26 PM

SPC Bob Mesna — Sat, 26 Mar 2022 13:26:42 -0400

It is like the Bob Dylan song: Everybody has to serve somebody. It is on record you have to pay and somebody has a record you owe. Unfortunate this is happening, but it is your error. It is like having a mortgage payment. Over the years, they sell your debt again and again to different financial organizations, but you still owe until paid.

Response by SFC Larry Jones made Apr 11 at 2022 1:21 AM

SFC Larry Jones — Mon, 11 Apr 2022 01:21:10 -0400

As SFC Ralph E. Kelly states, you need to consult with JAG, who will be available to you at the nearest military installation, no matter how far away you are. I had a similar problem back in 1982, when I left the NTC to go on recruiting duty. I get a call one day saying I was going to have to pay for so much missing equipment. I immediately sat down and wrote a letter saying why that wouldn't fly. I knew I needed to talk to a lawyer and I needed permission from my CO to go to Ft. Polk, Louisiana from the little town where I was to see JAG. When I showed the lawyer what I had written, he said it was like I had taken the regulation and answered it step by step. I told him I had just been mad. He made some suggestions, which I used, and what I wound up signing a statement of charges for was considerably less than what had initially been proposed. I don't know how it works for officers, but for enlisted, you cannot be charged more than one month's base pay, unless that has changed. Even so, there are still ways to apply for relief, which you will need to ask JAG about.