Posted on Dec 9, 2013
SSG C Ied & Irw Instructor
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<p>Multiple times through out my career, I've run into leadership (mostly Officer side of the house) that operates with the understanding that they are the know all/end all of information and rightness (mostly LT's).</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>I've noticed that even politely having a discussion with these types of leaders about how they address NCO's in formation, or talk to enlisted soldiers in general gives no results.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>How do you feel is the best way, as an NCO, to approach a leader who refuses to recognize subordinate leaders as leaders and simply as subordinates?</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Officers, your opinions are welcome as well maybe you can give me/us some insight into the best way to approach you and your peers.</p>
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1SG Steven Stankovich
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Leaders who believe they are the "know all/end all of information and rightness" are almost the worst type of leaders (in my opinion).  The worst type of leaders are the ones who actually day in and day out bring that beliefs to the table and it becomes their style.

 

 

Officers and Noncommissioned Officers have very distinct roles but those roles do "bleed over" which requires cross-talk and mutual respect.  If that does not happen, then the unit as a whole will go into a downward spiral.  Toxic leadership and other buzz words like that are then tossed around.

 

 

I would suggest that if you are experiencing this type of leadership within your organization that you bring it up to your PSG, 1SG and CSM.  Each of those NCOs should have the "ear" of the PL, CO CDR and SQDN/BN CDR.  It is very difficult to address or attempt to fix issues if they are not brought up.

 

 

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MAJ Joseph Parker
MAJ Joseph Parker
11 y
MSG Stankovich: In my opinion you have given the most sound and professional advice to SSG Barin on this thread so far. He would be wise to heed it.  
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SGT Public Affairs Broadcast Specialist
SGT (Join to see)
11 y
My thoughts exactly, MSG Stankovich...

And if the situation gets bad enough, it's always entertaining to see the LT get chewed out by the 1SG...
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SFC Signals Intelligence Analyst
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Most of the company-grade officers I have known, know better than to act like a know-it-all, unless it is widely understood that they had an NCO career before they were commissioned. SSGs and SFCs are the biggest know-it-alls, it seems, followed by MAJs, but over the years I learned that every MAJ goes through a time period when s/he's a jerk and it's usually when s/he's the S-3, so it will pass. ;)

So, to answer your question, whenever you have a bossypants giving you unsolicited advice, thank them politely for their opinion and tell them you will take it into consideration.
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SGT Ben Keen
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Tact was always an interesting thing while I was in the service.  You are right, sometimes you get these leaders, both on the NCO side and the Officer side that feel he/she is the end-all-be-all to the military.  This type of leader is toxic to all of those around and sadly, can get someone hurt or killed based on their refusal to listen to the input of others.  But let's keep in mind, 2LTs and freshly prompted SGTs are facing a huge mountain to climb.  You come into or reenter your unit with this new authority and you have to figure out the best to use it.  Sure, you can come in like an idiot, yelling and throwing things around, making people do push ups and whatever other crazy stuff you think will "earn" you the respect or you can come in, remember where you came from and listen to those around you because they were in your shoes too.  Sometimes the best leaders are those that stop talking and start listening.  
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Dealing With Certain Types of Leadership
CW2 Joseph Evans
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Blanket Party...<br>Seriously though, that sort of narcissistic approach to leadership is what leads to toxic work environments. In most cases, if the "leader" in question doesn't adequately sabotage himself, his subordinates usually provide himself adequate opportunity to stick his foot in his mouth as things go on.<br>That being said, some of them still make it to BN and even BDE command by will of some maleficent angel that sits on their shoulder.<br>As a subordinate, you will never get through to them. So you have two choices, stick around and do your best to alleviate the damage they do, or save your skin and transfer out as quickly as possible.<br>
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CH (CPT) Heather Davis
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MAJ Parker:


I agree, maintaining Military Bearing and being professional is the Military way and should be the standard. I stand on regulation and going through your Chain of Command and keeping circumstances at the lowest level.

However, Soldiers are dealing with unethical, immoral, situations it is imperative that one has personal courage and speaks out. The abuse of power in our ranks has to be stopped, and unfortunately many have come in our Military not to serve but to be served.

Our most precious resource is America's Son's and Daughters and as
Leader's good order and discipline are often under minded due to the lack of mentoring and development of our future.


I admire and highly respect your wise
counsel, I was raised by Vietnam Veterans, and I will strive to be more professional. This is a hot button for me. I was enlisted for 22 years and have came through the ranks.


 

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MAJ Joseph Parker
MAJ Joseph Parker
11 y
Salutations, Chaplain. Dealing with poor leadership or a bad boss is extremely difficult whether in the military or civilian life. Every leader is also a follower, and someone is responsible for that leader's development as well. Thank you for taking a positive attitude, and thank you for your service!
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CH (CPT) Heather Davis
CH (CPT) Heather Davis
11 y

MAJ Parker:


Respectfully Sir, injustice is a hot button for me. I have been through some situations with abuse of power, in a deplorable sense, and I have a love for serving. I am a screaming eagle, and I believe in flying above turbulence. I also am an advocate for being a voice of truth and mentoring the next generation. I believe in God and Country. I thank you MAJ Parker for your dedication and passion and thank you for your service!!

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MAJ Senior Signal Oc
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Being prior enlisted this wasn't an issue because I had seen how the Army operates from the other side. From my side I would bring my grievances up to your PSG and let them know the issue. A good NCO is going to kick the snot out of the LT, like my first one did to me when I got some crazy ideas, and hopefully resolve the problem. If not your PSG can then bring it to the 1SG who has the commander's ear. I saw this method work where the CO gave an "OPD" to a LT who was riding his enlisted troops like servants. Every unit is different so you will have to feel out the right course of action. I hope this advice helps.
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1SG Steven Stankovich
1SG Steven Stankovich
11 y
Spot on sir, spot on...
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SSG C Ied & Irw Instructor
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First off, thanks to everyone for their sound advice and wisdom.

I'm not dealing with this type of leadership right now, just had a run in yesterday that reminded me of it.

I believe whole heartedly in using tact, but at the same time if something is wrong I won't be quiet about it. I refuse to let soldiers be trampled by inexperience and arrogance.


Again thank you everyone, I was just looking to start a discussion, didn't realize it came out looking like I had a problem! Ha ha.
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LTC Program Manager
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I think there is a school on the Hudson River whose goal is producing this kind of officer.
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MAJ Joseph Parker
MAJ Joseph Parker
11 y

MAJ Jason M: Let's assume your comment is a joke. A smiley face emoticon would help the more serious RP readers understand it as a joke and not an unprofessional comment.


If it is a serious and professional opinion, you are entitled to it.


However, for those RP readers who actually believe that kind of opinion: (1) Please read a history book; (2) In all honesty, not all Academy grads are going to be Eisenhower, and a very few go bad; (3) Go to West Point, meet those young cadets, see their training, meet the people who train them for 4 years; (4) Finally, (full disclosure), I am USMA class of 75. Have been through and seen a lot, and so have tens of thousands of other grads, many who have given their lives for Duty, Honor, Country; please don't diss the West Pointers so casually.


Naval and Air Force Academy are okay to diss  :-) (joke- note emoticon)


Thank you, MAJ Jason M. for your service!



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SFC Sniper Oct
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SSG Barin,

Before
I joined 2CR I was at Drum where I had a 1st Lt that was a prior
enlisted and tried to act as a NCO rather than Officer. My fellow NCOs and I took
him aside and talked about things to make sure he remembered where he was
positioned in the PLT. As at the time the senior SL we have to support him as
well as help him with the tactical decisions to keep the men safe and moral
high. When I finally signed into 2CR guess what a CO that was prior enlisted as
well, if your fellow NCO’s feel the same way and with the support of the PSG
you all may want to have a census with said Officer.  Barin let us not forget the CO/XO we had
before I left talking to them was very difficult but with the senior NCO
advising his Officer it should work itself out. Shoot me a message and I will
see what we can do

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SSgt Forensic Meteorological Consultant
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Major Parker has hit the nail squarely because problems happen when respect is lost and it can be as simple as moving a desk or missing some appointment.  First, if you treat as a person as you would want to be treated, you will probably have less hassles.
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CH (CPT) Heather Davis
CH (CPT) Heather Davis
11 y
I concur
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