Damning Internal VA Report; what should be done?

2015-07-17T10:08:16-04:00

The Veterans Affairs Department's system for verifying whether a veteran is alive or dead contributes to costly or embarrassing errors, including compensation being paid to veterans who have passed away and records indicating they had visited doctors after they died, according to an internal VA report.

The report, a review of the VA's death records sources, found the department's medical records system lists as active patients 2.7 million veterans who are, in fact, dead.

But the VA can't expunge them from their rolls because the death notices came from sources such as the Social Security Administration, Medicare, the Defense Department and other government entities that the VA does not accept as proof of death.

The VA accepts only actual death certificates, a record of a death at a VA facility or a notification from the National Cemetery Administration as sufficient verification to remove a veteran from the system, according to department officials.

This method of record-keeping creates confusion over who is receiving care and benefits, and has prompted charges that nearly 30 percent of the 847,882 veterans waiting to hear whether they are eligible for VA health care died before they ever received word of a decision, as was reported Monday in the Huffington Post.

According to VA, the veterans are on the "pending eligibility" list because they must furnish either additional proof that they served or verify that their income meets the required threshold for care.

But whistleblower and VA employee Scott Davis told Military Times on Tuesday that the VA is failing its veterans by not keeping decent records and not following up to ensure that veterans are still in need of care.

"Every year, thousands of veterans lose their eligibility for VA health care due to the agency's inactions and some are dying while they wait," he said.

Another problem with the poor record keeping: dead patients making and keeping doctor's appointments, receiving checks and filling prescriptions.

According to the internal VA report published April 1 by the department's Date of Death Workgroup, the records of 10 percent of veterans in the VA system indicated "activity" — they received compensation payments, visited a doctor, made an appointment or had a prescription filled — after their actual date of death.

The discrepancy is likely the result of a gap between the actual date of death, as determined by a source outside VA such as Social Security, and the date when the department receives notice through one of its accepted official channels.

In one case, however, such a miscommunication allowed 76 prescriptions to be filled at one pharmacy for controlled substances such as oxycodone, hydromorphone and Valium.

And, according to the report, some prescriptions have been filled years after the date of death — "on average, almost 12 years after the date of death."

In addition to reviewing "activity" by patients after their deaths, the internal working group analyzed the list of pending applications to enroll in the VA health care system dating to 1996. Nearly 900,000 veterans are pending eligibility.

But the list is actually much shorter, according to outside government sources. The report found that 2.3 million veterans with applications for VA enrollment actually are deceased.

A VA spokeswoman said the report points to the need for the VA to improve its methodology for verifying deaths.

"The reason for this report was to figure out the lay of the land and be able to ask these questions" about how to improve record-keeping," the spokeswoman said.

The working group recommended that VA develop an algorithm to identify individuals whose dates of death could be updated from other sources.

Response by SSgt Alex Robinson made Jul 17 at 2015 10:10 AM

2015-07-17T10:10:37-04:00

The VA needs a complete reboot. This nonsense must end!

Response by LTC John Shaw made Jul 17 at 2015 10:11 AM

2015-07-17T10:11:33-04:00

CPL(P) Bret Farritor When I read this article, I realize we really need to be against government run healthcare...

Response by PO1 John Miller made Jul 17 at 2015 10:12 AM

2015-07-17T10:12:29-04:00

And on the other end of the spectrum you've got vets who are quite alive being declared dead and the VA stopping their Disability Compensation (without any of these "official" notifications) and it is then upon the vet to "prove" they're still alive but the VA won't accept you showing up in person with photo ID saying "I'm me, I'm still alive, give me my money."

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Jul 17 at 2015 10:59 AM

2015-07-17T10:59:52-04:00

Why mess with progress, let's keep doing nothing at the expense of our veterans and hope the problem goes away or fixes itself on it's own. We only elect our officials, we can't force them to actually, what's that 4 letter word, WORK? to earn their next vote.

I guess taking them out behind the building and shooting them or hanging them with piano wire is also out of the questions? The Nazis did have one thing going for them, they knew how to discourage failure and treason.

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Jul 17 at 2015 11:07 AM

2015-07-17T11:07:11-04:00

Do like every a lot of other companies have done during major reorgs, lay everyone off and make them re-interview for their jobs so we can actually see who is qualified to hold their jobs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StIcRH_e6zQ

Office Space - What would you say you do here?

Office Space clip

Response by SGM Steve Wettstein made Jul 17 at 2015 11:09 AM

2015-07-17T11:09:12-04:00

This probably will get deleted but whatever.......Fucking Idiots.

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Jul 17 at 2015 11:14 AM

2015-07-17T11:14:22-04:00

Inasmuch as the same discussion transcends several threads on RallyPoint I often find myself repeating the same thing. However, some things bear repeating. It's easy to blame Administration failures on the sitting President, but problems persist regardless of who occupies the White House. Doesn't that make you stop and think? Maybe these problems aren't political or ideological. Maybe there's an overriding issue that we're ignoring. Maybe, just maybe, bureaucracies don't work regardless of who is managing them. There is a mass of evidence proving the truth of this assertion.

We're all familiar with these failures in recent times, the ones that have been publicized by opposition parties to gain political advantage. However, if you look closely enough, you'll discover that no bureaucracy in all of history has ever performed well. Oh, there are some few established to deal with a short term issue that succeeded (at great expense) and then loitered long after their purpose had been fulfilled (think NASA and EPA - there are even more ridiculous examples). The history of bureaucratic failure extends even into the Administration of George Washington. His fur trading companies were established to placate the Indians, but only served to enrich the bureaucrats of the Bureau of Indian Affairs that Washington established to run the fur trading enterprise. Leap forward in history past countless other failures and you arrive at the granddaddy of them all, The Transcontinental Railroad which fell apart soon after the "Golden Spike" was driven and replaced by far better rail lines built by private enterprise.

Despite all this evidence, We the People have been cursed now with the Affordable Care Act which is the most mis-named legislation in history. It is not "affordable" and imperils health "care".

What chance then has the VA?

Response by LCDR Rabbah Rona Matlow made Jul 17 at 2015 12:21 PM

2015-07-17T12:21:38-04:00

Change in the VA comes from Congress. DO NOT FORGET THAT. The VA is not allowed to change such policies absent legislation...

#NoIncumbentsIn2016

Response by Sgt Spencer Sikder made Jul 20 at 2015 3:03 PM

2015-07-20T15:03:50-04:00

At two of my duty stations with VA, I managed the mail center. It would drive my staff crazy to spend the $.40+/- to mail something to a veteran only to have it returned as undeliverable. The problem exists on both sides of that fence. Some veterans like to BS the VA and give an address that is further away than where they are actually residing so they can collect (fraudulently) more on travel pay. Some move away and don't think to let key organizations, like the VA, their bank, etc. know of the new address.

When VA initiated confirming insurance and contact information ( if I recall correctly as a result of the AARP insurance fraud VA got caught perpetuating), veterans got angry having to provide address, contact and insurance information at each visit. Then you have those clerks or doctors at VA who don't even bother to ask. A funny little sidebar on this issue, we had a veteran who was pissed that the clerk asked for his address. He refused indicating what you have is right, "damn it!" The clerk explained it was a new process and she would be in trouble if she didn't ask. He said he didn't give a shit. As he waited to be called in to see his doctor, he saw the clerk speaking with a male who happened into her office. The vet approached the window and the man, who turned out to be the supervisor explained the necessity. So instead of providing the address, the clerk recited what was on file, low and behold, it was his ex-wife's address who he divorced a couple of years before. No wonder he wasn't getting the VA information. So while there is some culpability upon VA to clean up their records and to play nice with other government agencies, it is also up to us to keep up with our business as well. When VA asks for your information or asks if your information current, you want to ask, what do you have on file or recite your information so that they can update the record.