Customs and Courtesies - Calling "Attention" or "At Ease" in the workplace/office

SSG Daniel Deiler — Mon, 23 Jun 2014 21:15:37 -0400

I work in a BDE level section that formerly fell under control of "BN X." Since our BDE HQ deployed, we now fall under another BDE HQ and consequently a different BN. Today the CSM from our old BN walked in and chewed us up and down for not calling "At Ease." First off, he was not even two steps into our office when he started his tirade and to make matters worse, we could not even see who he was or know who he was for that matter. We have customers coming in all the time and he has a) never been in our office even once before and b) we do not belong to his BN any longer.

As a BDE element, in my experience, we have only called "Attention" and "At Ease" for our BDE CDR and CSM but not BN level CDR or CSM unless in the BN HQ or lower controlled buildings (Subordinate Company's, BN Staff Duty, etc) Doing so would be like a 1SG walking into BN HQ and expecting "At Ease.

This particular CSM (whose BN we do not fall under) chewed two CPT's in my office for not calling "At Ease" and going to parade rest and even went through the trouble of alerting the BN Commander of their faux paux, told them to come see him in his office AND printed off the page of FM 7-21.13 highlighting the portion of the text that states, "When an NCO of superior rank enters the room, the first soldier to recognize the NCO calls the room to “At ease.”

Enough story time...based on the facts above, I have two questions.

#1 - Is it correct protocol to ALWAYS call "Attention" or "At Ease" for a CDR, 1SG or CSM from a different unit in YOUR workplace? (Keep in mind there is normally one of the aforementioned personnel in said workplace)

#2 - If an officer sees a CSM, should they call "At Ease" and go to parade rest?

Response by CWO4 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 23 at 2014 10:00 PM

CWO4 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 23 Jun 2014 22:00:04 -0400

#1-yes, #2-no

Response by CMSgt James Nolan made Jun 23 at 2014 10:40 PM

CMSgt James Nolan — Mon, 23 Jun 2014 22:40:17 -0400

SSG Deller, the answer is simple:
1: No idea, we (Air Force) do not call buildings to anything for enlisted personnel. (But I would stand up and greet them, that is simple courtesy)
2: Officers do not stand to for enlisted, period.

Now, my question to you would be this-Was there a 2ndLt in the room going to attention?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 24 at 2014 2:33 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 24 Jun 2014 02:33:29 -0400

Brother, I say a resounding NO to questions #2. As for the first question, it depends on the unit as well as who is already in the building. Coming from a TRADOC environment, I'd say a definite yes. In a normal AD unit, I'd say probably no.

Just my 3.57 cents worth.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 24 at 2014 6:23 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 24 Jun 2014 06:23:51 -0400

So after reading the word "customers" it's a 100% no in this situation. That's like calling "At Ease" every time a 1SG or above walks into a PX.

Other work place situations are a lot different. Maybe not everyone that walks in the door but defiantly the BN leadership. If you get chew out that's part of being in the military and you just have to brush that off and move on. Take a knee, drink water, and change your socks.

Response by SFC William Swartz Jr made Jun 24 at 2014 10:03 AM

SFC William Swartz Jr — Tue, 24 Jun 2014 10:03:42 -0400

As the BN CSM doesn't have control over your unit any longer, I would say no to his "desiring" that the unit call "At Ease" for him, unless he is the first Sr NCO to have entered your workplace. As for the 2 CPTs, yeah, had I been one I would have "politely" reminded the CSM that while he is the SR Enlisted person for said unit, he does not out rank myself and therefor I will not ever go to "Parade Rest" when speaking to him, and would have reminded him that he should be speaking to me from the position of attention until told to "At Ease"!!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 24 at 2014 10:29 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 24 Jun 2014 10:29:26 -0400

#1 - yes it is correct only if the one of the above out ranks or is of "higher office".
For example, a BDE CSM/CDR, Division CSM/CDR. For a 1SG probably not.

#2 - I would pay a dollar to see that and would ask the dear CPT if he had a bad flashback or something

Response by COL Vincent Stoneking made Jun 24 at 2014 12:05 PM

COL Vincent Stoneking — Tue, 24 Jun 2014 12:05:09 -0400

#2, No. Never.
#1 I would answer this way: If an NCO who is of superior rank to all the occupants of the room/bldg enters, I would say that At Ease should be called. Not just because (s)he is a MSG, but because (s)he is the ONLY MSG present. I suppose you could argue that the room should be called for the BDE CSM because (s)he "outranks" the BN CSM - but I have limited use for such people.

As far as Officers, I would use the following rule: Yes, when the unit CDR enters the room/bldg for the first time of the day (or leaves at the end). Yes for Officers senior to the CDR. No for the rest of them.

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Jun 24 at 2014 12:05 PM

LTC Paul Labrador — Tue, 24 Jun 2014 12:05:24 -0400

#1, only if said person is of superior rank or station (ie DIV CSM) to your command team. If I was at BDE and the BN team entered, I would not call the room to attention or at ease.

#2 - as said by others, officers are not required to stand or go to at ease for ANY enlisted soldier. I would have pointed to that self-same line that the CSM pointed out and asked him since when does a CSM outrank a CPT???

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 24 at 2014 12:41 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 24 Jun 2014 12:41:38 -0400

Sounds like someone is in a power trip and doesn't know the regulations, a normal BDE has probably 4-5 BN's, you will not call the BDE to attention or at ease 5 different times, just when the BDE command group comes in or leaves or if someone higher ranking than them comes into the building

Response by SSG Trevor S. made Jun 24 at 2014 1:22 PM

SSG Trevor S. — Tue, 24 Jun 2014 13:22:52 -0400

The two CPTs should have placed him at attention until the BDE CSM arrived to take the CSM aside for counseling.

Response by 1SG Larry Everly made Jun 24 at 2014 1:30 PM

1SG Larry Everly — Tue, 24 Jun 2014 13:30:56 -0400

Unfortunately you're dealing with a CSM with a large ego who desires to force others to respect his rank. I'm all for enforcing appropriate military customs and courtesies, but this senior NCO gives other professional NCO's a bad name. If you're a genuine leader who cares for his/her soldiers, but treats everyone with dignity and respect, you can still be "hard" and will earn true respect of subordinates, peers and superiors. In this particular case, you should not call "At Ease" when he enters since he's a subordinate command/CSM to your Brigade. Commissioned Officers are not required to stand at "Parade Rest" or call the building to "At Ease" when this CSM or any other CSM enters. I'd encourage SSG Deiler to enlighten the 2 Captains. NCO's can and should mentor Commissioned Officer when needed.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 24 at 2014 1:51 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 24 Jun 2014 13:51:19 -0400

1. If im in BDE unless you outrank my BDE CDR or BDE CSM I wouldnt call at ease or attention.
2. No an officer doesnt have to call at ease for a CSM but I hope if they see him they give us enlisted guys a heads up so we can call it, it its needed.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 24 at 2014 4:25 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 24 Jun 2014 16:25:43 -0400

CSM David Hopkins posted this on my comment feed that I asked if I could share.

If we want the technical answers to these questions, then the answer for both is no. Any officer, Commissioned or Warrant, out ranks any enlisted member and by regulations is not required to stand at parade rest or at ease for a CSM. Was that CSM wrong? ABSOLUTELY and many of the comments from everyone spells out some of his potential issues. What should have happened though is whomever the senior enlisted person, or first enlisted soldier, should have stood, greeted him, and assisted him to the best of his/her ability. If this is a work place and is not under the control of that unit, then the command At Ease is not required. As far as the CSM or 1SG entering their unit for the first time of the day, it IS customary to call the building to At Ease, even if an officer is already present. It is not to undermine the authority or rank of the officer, but to show the due respect for the position that individual holds within the unit. It also alerts anyone already in the building (that is within earshot) that the Senior NCO of the unit is present.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 24 at 2014 5:25 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 24 Jun 2014 17:25:00 -0400

We should Call "Attention" and "At Ease" when they (BC CSM, CO 1SG) walk into a room! Why wouldn't you, If the CSM walks into my office and we are the only two in there I am still calling At Ease so that everyone else in my Company area knows he is in the building.

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Jun 24 at 2014 7:14 PM

MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca — Tue, 24 Jun 2014 19:14:14 -0400

I expect the house to be called to attention when I get home but my wife out ranks me. :-) Where's my emoticon!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 25 at 2014 9:57 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 25 Jun 2014 09:57:11 -0400

You have two things going on in your argument. First off a old CSM coming into a different BDE and then you have based on your discussion him entering the room not the building. The Commanders and CSM's of their own assigned organizatons are most definitely due some respect and tact calling AT EASE and ATTN at the beginning and end of the day. Now this may be old school of me but yes even if a NCO or Officer superior in rank to those in an office are enering the area you have stated then yes it is only courtesy to ensure addressing this individual with proper respect. I do believe based on your observation of what happened a few more moments would be necessary to adequately adjust and recognize the title. But remember you have a CSM with X amount of years in he/she is entitled to the At Ease when entering working areas. Where and what these individuals come from is of know concern fo rthe Army it is what they have been pinned that matters and upholding tradions such as this makes us who we are. By doing so you convey discipline and respect to those superior to you at the time.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 25 at 2014 6:38 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 25 Jun 2014 18:38:11 -0400

#1 - If the individual walking in has a higher rank than anyone else present, yes. If not, no.

#2 - No. The text says "When an NCO of superior rank enters the room, the first soldier......."

If the first soldier is an officer, the NCO is not of superior rank to that first soldier, so it does not apply. I would LOVE to know the outcome of the BN Cdr talking to those two CPTs about not coming to parade rest for an NCO.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 26 at 2014 12:26 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 26 Jun 2014 12:26:00 -0400

So this parallels a question I addressed to my BDE CSM as a younger WO1. I asked him politely if I needed to come to parade rest because of the position I was representing at the time. (BDE Staff Duty) His reply was, "No" but stand up and call "At Ease" so others know I'm entering/leaving the building. In short to questions #1 and #2, #1 gets a yes, if and only if, there is not a more senior representative in the building. The CSM represents the Commander of whatever level they are assigned to. Please try and respect that. #2 As I mentioned above unless I'm on duty or I'm the first to see them enter the building for the day I'm not going to call "At Ease" nor snap to that position after calling it.

Response by SN Anthony Parks made Nov 16 at 2014 6:21 PM

SN Anthony Parks — Sun, 16 Nov 2014 18:21:46 -0500

Well since men are no longer allowed to be men in the military and you have an NCO who can't get laid so he needs to get his ego stroked by throwing around that $2.00 piece of stitching on his collar.................. than i'd simply do what he asks long enough to shut him up and then calmly ask him " in what world do you think you have the right to talk down to a commissioned officer". haha I hope the captain fried him. "Discipline" is a matter of perspective and actions like that are the reason people call military intelligence an oxymoron

Response by MAJ Ronnie Reams made Dec 7 at 2014 1:22 PM

MAJ Ronnie Reams — Sun, 07 Dec 2014 13:22:29 -0500

At ease is also used to start a meeting or such when everyone is jibber jabbering. When the speaker is ready to go, the senior NCO should call at ease to get everyone to be quiet and pay attention.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Oct 7 at 2015 12:57 PM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Wed, 07 Oct 2015 12:57:57 -0400

That's one practice that has irked me since day one in the Army. If you want people to go to Parade Rest, why would you call out "At Ease"? That's already a command with movements associated with it, none of which are Parade Rest. Why not just call out Parade Rest? Sigh....

Response by A1C Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 7 at 2015 1:04 PM

A1C Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 07 Oct 2015 13:04:35 -0400

In my work center we only stand at attention when the general comes in once a morning. After that we just do our work day and head home

Response by SFC Harry (Billy) Tison made Apr 3 at 2016 1:42 PM

SFC Harry (Billy) Tison — Sun, 03 Apr 2016 13:42:00 -0400

I have never understood why a CSM feels the need to go on a tirade in a situation such as yours. I wonder how he'd felt if you were in a ammo facility and someone dropped some munitions?

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 3 at 2016 3:12 PM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 03 Apr 2016 15:12:06 -0400

We had a new three star come through our section. We called the place to attention and he went through. On his way out he commented about the lady who was so dedicated that rather than coming to attention she continued to work. We walked back and the lady was sound asleep with her head on the stereoscope and two photos under it.

Response by SSG Dale London made Apr 20 at 2016 7:25 AM

SSG Dale London — Wed, 20 Apr 2016 07:25:29 -0400

The only thing I can think of that would give that CSM the right to the honor he demanded would be if he had been awarded the CMH. Barring that, I think he's in line for a reality check.

Response by SSG Gabriel Galindo made Apr 20 at 2016 10:43 AM

SSG Gabriel Galindo — Wed, 20 Apr 2016 10:43:08 -0400

Question: Did the CSM stand at attention while chewing out the two CPTs? After all, even though protocol states that the room does not get an "At Ease!" since there are those of higher ranking in the office (CPTs) it does state that an enlisted member stand at attention when addressing an officer.

"...told them to come see him in his office AND printed off the page of FM 7-21.13 highlighting the portion of the text that states, "When an NCO of superior rank enters the room, the first soldier to recognize the NCO calls the room to “At ease.”" Since when does a CSM outrank officers?

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 8 at 2016 1:58 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 08 Aug 2016 01:58:56 -0400

i have one question my first sgt just ate up me and my nco up because we didn't call at ease for him but are commander is in the building, was I wrong not to call at ease for him when I'm commander was in the building all righty.

Response by PVT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 29 at 2016 5:58 PM

PVT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 29 Aug 2016 17:58:15 -0400

Can anyone actually give a black and white answer or tell me what para. to find the answer in. You would figure something like this would be drawn in the sand by now

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 25 at 2017 2:50 PM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 25 Oct 2017 14:50:26 -0400

If a commissioned officer is present, we do not call at ease for NCOs because, by right, all commissioned officers outrank even the SMA. We only call the group to attention or at ease if the officer entering the area is of a rank superior to everyone else's in that space.
If an officer sees a CSM, the only thing they should be doing is anticipating the NCO's salute so that they may salute back and return the greeting of the day, if it is within that commissioned officer's wishes.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 23 at 2018 3:35 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 23 Jan 2018 15:35:01 -0500

When in doubt, do it any way. You can can let higher know the situation and have them handle it. As far as this CSM. Since he wasn't in the room to begin with, he was just looking to be authoritarian. (Bully) At your level, just remember him and the way he is. Then, tell your battles to keep an eye out. That way he can't do it again.

Response by SPC James Cooke made Nov 19 at 2018 3:32 PM

SPC James Cooke — Mon, 19 Nov 2018 15:32:58 -0500

Had a similar discussion with a Sergeant First Class a couple of years ago with another private. A private and myself were arguing whether a Sergeant Major or a Command Sergeant Major had to call "Attention!" when a Second Lieutenant walked into a conference room (used as an example) when no other officer was already in the room. The other private said, "No," while I said, "Yes, because the officer out ranks an NCO, needlessly a Senior NCO." We asked the Sergeant First Class and he confirmed that an NCO, regardless of rank, should call "Attention!" for a Second Lieutenant if no other officer is already in the conference room.

No wonder why my senior leadership wanted me to stay in and become an NCO.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 4 at 2019 10:03 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 04 Mar 2019 10:03:25 -0500

#1 - In active duty I was always taught to call the room to attention for the first time during a day an individual senior officer walks into the room. So once for each MAJ and higher in this case. Since there are CPTs in the room there is no calling of "At Ease" unless the CPTs step out and the Soldiers left are of lesser rank. It's all about the rank structure.

#2 - Okay, this is interesting. The quick answer is no. Any officer outranks a CSM and therefore doesn't call the room to "At Ease". CPTs don't go into parade rest for the CSM unless in formation. Sounds like the CPTs need to develop a backbone and stand their ground on this one.