Courtesy Patrol in the PX

2014-06-11T20:59:54-04:00

On Camp Casey, KS we have a new Duty on the weekend. Courtesy Patrol to ensure Soldiers are shaving, and staying within the 2ID civilian clothing standards. Everyone is briefed on unauthorized clothing when going through WRC, and they even have posters that give examples of unauthorized clothing. Why can Soldiers, NCO's, and Officers not get right. This just blows my mind.

Response by SSgt Gregory Guina made Jun 11 at 2014 9:20 PM

2014-06-11T21:20:14-04:00

It's not that they can't get it right it's they don't care enough to get it right.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 11 at 2014 9:50 PM

2014-06-11T21:50:55-04:00

When I was stationed in Camp Casey, KS back in 2004 as a young Soldier we had Staff Sergeants and above one Courtesy Patrol not just at the PX but also walking around the Vill. Here in Fort Campbell we have Courtesy Patrol, to ensure standards are being upheld. If Courtesy Patrol confronts a Soldier with a gig, that Soldiers entire NCO Channel from Team Leader to 1SG will report to the DCSM to discuss the gig and also be placed on Courtesy Patrol themselves.

Response by CMSgt James Nolan made Jun 11 at 2014 9:59 PM

2014-06-11T21:59:40-04:00

All due respect SSG, that is not a Courtesy Patrol, that is a Regulation Patrol. A Courtesy Patrol makes sure that the little old ladies who are shopping in the rain make it out to their cars safely.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 25 at 2014 10:52 PM

2014-07-25T22:52:00-04:00

Well the hell do you need a courtesy patrol when you have NCOs?

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 26 at 2014 11:38 AM

2014-07-26T11:38:35-04:00

Last week I drove out to a qual range to see how it was going. I have 22 new Soldiers out there, straight from OSUT. The range is being run by a sister company. I find 3 Soldiers right off the bat with rolled sleeves. I correct them, and all my 1SG to plan out a quick class when we get back in. I walk over to the range OIC just to check in and see him, a 1LT, with rolled sleeves. Then I look around and see his SSGs and SGTs with sleeves rolled 2-3 times (now up to the forearm). Right before I get in that LT's ass, his company 1SG comes up with rolled sleeves. I take the LT behind the woodshed for a second with the 1SG.

Wondering why we end up needing CPs? Because too many people have accepted their interpretation as the standard.

My 1SG and I had an eye opening experience about how hard they enforce te standard at Ft Bliss. We were talking to his old CSM from the 101st at the main PX while waiting for Longhorns to open. It was hard to keep a conversation because of how many times the CSM stopped to make a correction on everyone from privates to majors. Right then my 1SG decided to jot only enforce the known standards, but to research the rest. We are mobilizing through there and last thing we need is to deal with basic uniform issues. What happened within a week was that you could see how much more professional the Joes looked. Even our BDE CDR mentioned it.

Response by 1SG Steven Stankovich made Jul 26 at 2014 1:27 PM

2014-07-26T13:27:07-04:00

I was stationed at Camp Casey back in 1997-98. We had CPs both in TDC and on post.

Nice to see that we've come a long way in the past 16 years...

Response by PO1 G. Leslie /Stiltner made Jul 26 at 2014 8:53 PM

2014-07-26T20:53:27-04:00

More Briefs, Some live examples!! Maybe we need to invest some $ to do a study as to why people cant follow simple dress codes!!
Really the Army is requiring people to shave on their off days!! They are telling them what civilian clothes they can and cannot wear? Maybe I need a brief, can you Brief me on what 2ID and WRC are maybe then I can better grasp this discussion!!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 1 at 2014 11:35 AM

2014-08-01T11:35:55-04:00

The Army formula for addressing perceived shortcomings has become nearly rote at this point: identify the infraction, chapter the offender, develop a large program to address the small issue.

This is a classic example. A Courtesy Patrol to enforce clothing and shaving standards is offensive and insulting to the Non-Commissioned Officer corps. Policing those issues is our job at all times and should not require an additional duty.

Another example is the Annual Training outlined in 350-1. Rather than trust squad leaders and platoon sergeants to provide the required training, it is tracked at INSCOM level (for personnel under INSCOM) and trained via PowerPoint that Soldiers speed through without reading and guess at answers until they achieve a passing grade.

To answer your question, SSG Osborne- there is a percentage of Soldiers who will always do what they want instead of what they should. The Army has required leaders to promote them against the leaders' judgment, which means they become NCOs who don't enforce standards. Officers are paired with NCOs at every level to help guide their military decision making, but because we have so many NCOs who do "earn their respect and confidence", many officers do not trust their NCOs. This leads to further reduction of authority held by NCOs, and the cycle begins again.

Response by SGT Kristin Wiley made Dec 12 at 2014 6:34 PM

2014-12-12T18:34:43-05:00

Because everyone inteprets the regulations differently. For instance, torn clothing is not allowed. I do not considered jeans that are brought with frayed patches (not see through) as torn. Would This would be an example of torn jeans, should these jeans be authorized on post?

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 12 at 2014 7:10 PM

2014-12-12T19:10:19-05:00

I have an novel idea. How about personal self accountability. Learn and follow the rules yourself and there should be no problem. If there is a slip up, for instance sometimes my pants comes unbloused, thank the person making the correction, fix this problem and move on...without taking it personally. If you know that you do your best to conform, then you know that any slip ups are just that, slip ups.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 14 at 2014 9:48 PM

2014-12-14T21:48:00-05:00

I think it's one big BS

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 14 at 2014 9:46 PM

2014-12-14T21:46:20-05:00

I feel that big brother from The boik 1984 is watching.
sucking the remaining of fun left in the army

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 27 at 2019 6:18 PM

2019-07-27T18:18:28-04:00

It's needed because too many NCOs and officers lack the knowledge, will, and intestinal fortitude to make on the spot corrections and enforce standards, in general.

Response by Maj John Bell made Jul 27 at 2019 8:35 PM

2019-07-27T20:35:38-04:00

I am shocked that it requires a courtesy patrol. Any and every NCO, SNCO, and Officer should be enforcing the standard whether they are on duty or off. A real and substantial punishment applied a few times (I favor crucifixion on the road to Rome) should serve notice quite effectively. all without sacrificing training time or liberty time for those that would have to serve on courtesy patrol. But if it is necessary, I suggest that field grade officers and senior SNCO's pull the duty. It will definitely send the message that the command means it.

Response by MAJ James Woods made Jul 27 at 2019 11:54 PM

2019-07-27T23:54:57-04:00

Hahaha! That’s not new. 2ID always had Warrior Standards and had Courtesy Patrols that enforced it when I was stationed in Warrior country 97-99 and 01-03. Brigade SDO would post at the front gate on what was called “Turnaround duty” and ensure those leaving Camp were within standards. I’ll never forget a female Soldier who I informed her skirt that was too short. Her defense, “the girls in the bars wear short skirts.” My reply, “are you really comparing your attire to that of a ‘drinky girl’?”
Yeah. CPs have always been needed to ensure standards are met on and off post.

Response by MAJ Rene De La Rosa made Jul 28 at 2019 1:02 AM

2019-07-28T01:02:24-04:00

This is a continuing issue, obviously.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 18 at 2022 9:43 AM

2022-11-18T09:43:00-05:00

They do the same at Schofield Barracks, and is one SFC and one Officer...