Could I do ROTC after being disqualified medically for OCS?

2019-02-19T16:02:32-05:00

Could I do ROTC after being disqualified medically for OCS? So long story short, I’m prior enlisted and was diagnosed from the VA(during my RE1 delectation) with an adjustment disorder. I didn’t believe I actually struggled with the adjustment disorder once I was diagnosed, so I went through the very long process of being undiagnosed. After I graduated from undergrad I chose to pursue OCS and thought I would make it through no questions asked. However, I was disqualified and needed a waiver to get in. I just found out my waiver was disapproved. I have also been accepted into grad school and already was planning on attending grad school and trying to do ROTC if I could. I don’t agree with my waiver disaproval, and I know it doesn’t matter what I think, but I don’t think I should be disqualified based on the DODI anyways.

Anyways, I understand that the ROTC medical review process is different. Do I have a chance? I’m going to give it a go anyways, but would love some more advice.

Response by COL Dana Hampton made Feb 19 at 2019 4:09 PM

2019-02-19T16:09:12-05:00

You would most likely need the same type of waiver to contract for MSIII and MSIV while pursuing a graduate degree. For a definiative answer it’s always best to seek advice from your school’s Sr ROTC cadre. They will have access to the most current policy and regulations.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 19 at 2019 4:37 PM

2019-02-19T16:37:30-05:00

I'm not sure how the ROTC medical process is any different. It doesn't make sense how a medical condition could keep you from commissioning through OCS but not keep you from commissioning through ROTC. You'd be ending up in the exact same place with the exact same medical condition. I'm not saying you're wrong, it just doesn't seem logical. Then again, the military isn't always the most logical place. Good luck to you.

Response by COL Jon Thompson made Feb 19 at 2019 4:55 PM

2019-02-19T16:55:02-05:00

The Army uses the same standards of medical fitness for entrance. So I doubt that you would make it. However, the waiver review and approval process are probably different. For ROTC, it goes to Cadet Command and the Cadet Command surgeon makes a recommendation to the commander. Some waivers have to go DA Surgeon General. But it is up to a medical professional to make a recommendation and usually the commander will go with that. Also, I am not sure how the medical reporting systems talk with each other. The only thing I know for sure is nothing will happen if you don't try. I would go talk to the ROTC program and make your case. If you are a quality scholar/athlete/leader, they may take a chance. Good luck.

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Feb 19 at 2019 5:41 PM

2019-02-19T17:41:40-05:00

Sigh...I entirely follow what you explained, with !e, it was the exact opposite, Army ROTC 3 yrs first, then USAF OTS, though the clinical stuff you went into didn't quite happen with me in the fashion you described...long, long, LOOOONG story, trust me...I can explain a good deal if you want that might help, however, telling you is gonna take, I kid thee not, hours, and hours, and hours...been there, done that (BTDT)...so, if you wanna hear my whole sad tale of woe, and think it'd do you any good, fine, no problemo, we can have at it...I'm just tellin ya, God's truth, what you're trying to do is a MAJOR pain...trust !e again...MAJOR, big time, so, if you're still up for trying, despite my long-winded preface, fine and dandy, just understand, trust me yet again, I've been around tat block and done that ski slope six ways from Sunday, up, donwn, left, right, sideways, inside out...what you're contemplating isn't easy, by any conceivable stretch of imagination, I fathom the motivation, believe me, I had it, I've been where you wanna go, more ways than even God's got imagination for, just understand, as I said, it's REAL involved, it AIN'T simple, not by ANY stretch of imagination, that much I can virtually promise you, you're gonna need to do a WHOLE slew of soul searching, research, and planning, and, when you're all done with all hat, it still may do no good...believe me, for what you asked about, I assure you, I DO know whereof I speak, promise, OK? If you wanna chat, I'm here, I'd need you to elaborate a whole lot more, so far as you can, cause trust !e, you've seen only a VERY small tip of a VERY huge iceberg, and I've swam around it, climbed it, been to the top of it and back down again, OK? No rush, whenever you'd wanna yak, I'm here as I'd said, OK?

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Feb 19 at 2019 7:24 PM

2019-02-19T19:24:51-05:00

Maybe time for some straight talk. Your odds of becoming a military officer are low at best. It’s time for a new goal. If you want to Serve, consider becoming a civilian employee of one of the Armed Forces. Other servant jobs include teaching, counseling, first responder, social worker, missionary. Think it over. Opportunity abounds!

Response by COL John McClellan made Feb 19 at 2019 7:34 PM

2019-02-19T19:34:37-05:00

If you were disqualified medically by DODMERB, then that applies to ANY commissioning source. Your only avenue is to appeal the DQ, based on some kind of incorrect medical information, or, to get a "second opinion" that disputes whatever diagnosis that was the basis for the DQ. ROTC and OCS leadership can't change a medical DQ. If everyone did their job correctly, then you are out of options.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 19 at 2019 8:48 PM

2019-02-19T20:48:06-05:00

ROTC will still be the same type of physical, a commissioning physical. So, the process is the same. Even if you wanted to direct commission. A commissioning physical is the same no matter what. Now, for Chaplain Recruiting, if someone is disapproved then they can go back to their PCM and have them reevaluate them to determine otherwise. If it’s the opposite of what the surgeon general is saying, your doctors notes and a letter from him or her can be sent back in. Your waiver isn’t done unless OTSG says no or the SG says that it’s not waiverable. At least that’s been my experience for the past 3 years doing recruiting. I deal with cadets switching over to our Chaplain Candidate program so that’s how I know that the physicals are the same.

Response by CPT Andrew Wright made Feb 21 at 2019 7:32 AM

2019-02-21T07:32:37-05:00

If you went to the VA and made a claim for an adjustment disorder and have been accepting their money for it you have created your own roadblock and perhaps should be looking for another line of work besides the military. Best of Luck.

Response by SFC Patrick Machayo made Mar 3 at 2019 3:52 AM

2019-03-03T03:52:11-05:00

Best bet contact HRC. Look up the standards for both categories. Don't give up. Request a waiver if need be. Can you prove your disqualifying reason has improved? Try proving that.

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Mar 21 at 2019 10:57 AM

2019-03-21T10:57:56-04:00

http://www.sgaus.org

To me, at least, it'd help if you could possibly elaborate on your basic motivations...what field would you want, were you to go into any service? If Army or USMC, which specific range of possible MOS types. If USAF, which specific AFSCs? If Navy, what specific areas? Do you have flight interests at all? Would you want to be on the clinical side, or some deployable combat arms area? Go into your hobbies, interests, reading tastes, sports incl any martial arts, as well, to give us a more complete idea of your mind, if you will, knowing that helps suggest things for such career/educ questions, I've found...about the specifics of the problem you'd mentioned, that, obviously, I can't help you with at all...however, if you're seriously bound and determined that you'd want to try going in, lemme at least try to make you aware of an alternative which, though it's not entirely necessarily what you'd been wanting to do, could, at least, possibly let you test the waters, to see if the life could be for you, as well as to see if you could possibly make the adjustment, OK? SGAUS is the main professional body for what are termed the state defense forces (SDFs), the supplements a good many states and/or territories, though not all, have to supplement the ARNG and ANG, the Army and Air Natl Guards. They're real militaries, with real contracts, real enlistments, they just don't typically deploy outside their own state, unless for possibly, I've gathered, some type of purely humanitarian mission, disaster relief, hurricanes, tornados, earthquakes, I think most who'd go might well need to volunteer, however, I've also gathered whether they'd be used out of a given state or territory would be up to a given governor...so far as I know, they're not deployable overseas, as the Federal services are. I'd wanted quite badly to get involved with the NY Guard (NYG), though I'm total perm disabled, which made that impossible for insurance reasons, I did ask about it, I'd also met with their clinical types, as I'd been clinically trained for doctoral allied health, though we had to shut my license of sevl yrs ago, due to the whole disability thing. Our dentist had a friend who's NY ARNG, he'd wanted our dentist to join him, our dentist wasn't sure if the life would necessarily be for him. So, I'd suggested the NYG to kind of test drive the Audi, if you will, which, in fact, he did; he found the life was in fact for him, so, he submitted to NY ARNG while in the NYG, NY ARNG picked him up, NYG released him. There are significant differences between SDFs and Federal branches, mainly having to do with the Geneva Convention, as I understand the matter. That's why, in many instances, from what our dentist had later explained to me, quite often, NYG wasn't allowed on Federal installations in NY, even though they're the ARNG/ANG supplement, as they were essentially deemed, for purposes of law, "foreign" armies, if you will; I found the concept odd at first, though, as I reflected on the whole matter, I could obviously begin to perceive the rationale behind such a notion. In NYS, there's also the NY Naval Militia, which uses, mainly, about 95%+ of their personnel, drilling USNR, USMCR, and USCGR members, and is, in fact, apparently, Federally recognized. When 9/11 and Hurricane Sandy happened, both NYG as well as NYNM were in fact used, that I'd actually seen material on from back then; the main differences being, as I'd said, that NYG isn't Federally recognized, whereas NYNM is. That being said, I'm not entirely certain how SDFs are used in other states and/or territories that have them, you'd need to see if your state or territory actually has an SDF, per se, then go and speak with them about it, though the SGAUS lists, I believe, all the member SDF organizations in the US, I'm fairly certain. In the NYG, there's, I gather, a 3-yr enlistment; I was Army ROTC for 3 yrs, then went USAF OTS afterward, believe me, I've seen a good deal of the kind of thing you'd brought up for your own circumstances, though it's obviously not my place to go into that whole thing. That being said, if you could possibly try to go into an SDF by you, if one exists, you could at least have a reasonably realistic basis to gauge whether or not you'd be able to handle the Federal svcs, I'm not saying the parallel is exact, there are obviously numerous differences, however, SDFs are most definitely not the USCG Auxiliary, or the Civil Air Patrol (CAP), both of which are excellent groups, certainly...however, SDFs have their own boot camps, their own trainin cycles, their own regimens, had I known SDFs existed before I'd gone in, I most definitely would've very seriously considered going NYG before going on the Federal side, doing so would, I think, have let me possibly try to adjust to svc life before going Federal...when I'd been at USAF OTS after 3 yrs in Army ROTC, I did observe that those who were there who'd been prior enlisted adjusted far more readily to USAF OTS than I had, I knew many, from all the svcs, who'd gone intersvc, transferring to USAF, to attend USAF OTS, their own Federal svcs had released them, one guy I'd chatted with actually had Navy enlisted dolphins on his USAF shirt while we'd both been at the school, the only time I ever saw that. If you've done any college thus far, which I'm supposing you have, it'd also help to know your specific courses taken thus far, with actual titles, grades, and GPAs, also whether you've done an associates at all, with all the same info, I'll try to send you other material as well, that might be of interest, that might occur to me, I'm not saying going into an SDF would be precisely analogous to the Federal side, as I'd explained, however, if you could go into one, if one exists by you, and do decently in it, you'd at least have a fairly realistic basis, I think, to ask for a recommend, based on performance, if you wanted to try again for the Federal side. Also, look at USMC platoon leaders course (PLC), which is less well known, as well as, if you'd care to try for this, USPHS Jr and Sr COSTEP, the USPHS analogue to the ROTCs, and also USMC PLC. Then, too, if you'd want to try for this, the various state military colleges, e.g., VMI, the Citadel, and the state maritime colleges, all, from what I've read, let those who want to go through their regimental training do so without having to go into an ROTC or USMC PLC, in the case of, e.g., SUNY Maritime College, where I've known friends, and have worked with grads, and very nearly applied to myself, I do, in fact, know that to be the case. If you can finish the regimental training, with all the shipboard curriculum, and get USCG licensed as a 3rd mate and/or 3rd engineer, dual licensure is possible, you can get classed by USCG as what is termed a MARGRAD, which would place you in quite stead with USCG, possibly, to be allowed to go for either USCG OCS, or also possibly to try to go in as a direct commission, going through possibly a direct commission indoc OIS program, as opposed to solely an OCS, most are generally unaware of the differences between OCS and OIS programs, trust me, OIS programs do in fact exist...plus, if you're a recent MARGRAD, you might possibly be able to skip OIS, though I don't know precisely how that would work, you might be able to go to an abbreviated version. A friend I knew in grad school and I were doing our masters in physics at one place, he'd been a Navy OIS, not OCS, grad, to be an instructor in the Navy nuclear power school for, I think, the commissioned side, Navy has an explicit program to recruit nuc power instructors, he'd always wear his yellow Navy OIS t-shirt around the school, when I'd known him, so, I assure you, OIS programs most definitely do exist. Quite honestly, if you're seriously inclined toward STEM fields, engineering, physics, math, comp sci (CS), and IT, going to one of the state maritime colleges, purely as a regular student, not trying for an ROTC, they all have NROTC programs, being as they're sea schools, could well also be a quite suitable alternative for you, aside from going into an SDF, I'll try to send you material on the state maritime schools as well, elaborate, as I'd said, I hope all that was of at least some interest, I'd be most interested to hear more, no rush, whenever might possibly be convenient, OK?

www.sgaus.org

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Mar 21 at 2019 11:00 AM

2019-03-21T11:00:06-04:00

http://www.ocsfoundation.org

You might well find this of interest, it's not all-inclusive, it doesn't cover Army WOCS, or any of the direct commission indoc OIS programs I'd mentioned already in the other material I'd sent in, however, the forum pages about the five main OCS programs are actually quite good, also, look at YouTube, there are numerous videos about the various OCS and OIS type programs I've watched, many of them quite accurate, OK?

OCS Foundation

SERVICES FOR: Candidates Alumni Officer Families

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Mar 21 at 2019 11:01 AM

2019-03-21T11:01:00-04:00

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Maritime_colleges_in_the_United_States

This is on the US state maritime colleges, as I'd explained before....

Category:Maritime colleges in the United States - Wikipedia

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Mar 21 at 2019 11:01 AM

2019-03-21T11:01:37-04:00

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_junior_college

Read this....

Military junior college - Wikipedia

A military junior college (MJC) is a military-style junior college in the United States and one of the three major categories of the Army ROTC schools[1][2] that allows cadets to become commissioned officers in the U.S. Army reserve components in two years, instead of the usual four, through the Early Commissioning Program (ECP). They also offer Service Academy preparatory programs that allows qualified students to earn an appointment to the...

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Mar 21 at 2019 11:02 AM

2019-03-21T11:02:07-04:00

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_military_schools_and_academies

And this....

List of United States military schools and academies - Wikipedia

Most military schools in the United States are high schools that place a high emphasis on military preparation, academic rigor, and physical fitness. Most military schools are private and have high tuition, with financial aid available. [1]

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Mar 21 at 2019 11:03 AM

2019-03-21T11:03:27-04:00

http://www.vmi.edu

My best friend in USAF went here through AFROTC, however, as I'd explained, you might well also be able to go through the regimental program, as with the state maritime colleges, without having to go into an ROTC program here, I don't know if VMI has USMC PLC, lemme send you more, OK?

Virginia Military Institute

Athletics at VMI form an integral part of the mission to develop the whole person.At VMI, all cadets are athletes and all athletes are cadets.

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Mar 21 at 2019 11:05 AM

2019-03-21T11:05:40-04:00

http://www.citadel.edu

This and VMI are the West Points of the South, both are state run military colleges, that's why, while the vast majority of the students obviously do go for ROTCs, USMC PLC, USCG scholarships, USPHS Jr and/or Sr COSTEP, what have you, from what I've read, one is also not required to do so, you'd have to do such a program on student loans and/or other scholarships, of course, however, I have read such things might well certainly be at least possible....

The Citadel: The Military College of South Carolina

Founded in 1842, The Citadel is a landmark in Charleston and South Carolina that is noted for its educational reputation as well as its rich history.

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Mar 21 at 2019 11:06 AM

2019-03-21T11:06:10-04:00

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Military_Academy_Preparatory_School

Read about this....

United States Military Academy Preparatory School - Wikipedia

The United States Military Academy Preparatory School (USMAPS), sometimes referred to as West Point Prep, is a preparatory school for the United States Military Academy (USMA). Located in West Point, New York, its official mission is "to provide academic, military and physical instruction in a moral-ethical military environment to prepare and motivate candidates for success at the United States Military Academy."[1]

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Mar 21 at 2019 11:06 AM

2019-03-21T11:06:43-04:00

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_Academy_Preparatory_School

And this....

Naval Academy Preparatory School - Wikipedia

The Naval Academy Preparatory School or NAPS is the preparatory school for the United States Naval Academy. NAPS is located on Naval Station Newport, Rhode Island. The mission of the Naval Academy Preparatory School is "To enhance Midshipman Candidates' moral, mental, and physical foundations to prepare them for success at the United States Naval Academy".[1]

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Mar 21 at 2019 11:07 AM

2019-03-21T11:07:17-04:00

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Air_Force_Academy_Preparatory_School

This too....

United States Air Force Academy Preparatory School - Wikipedia

The U.S. Air Force Academy Preparatory School—usually referred to as "the Prep School" or "The P School"—was established in May 1961. The school's founder and first commander was Colonel Lee Charles Black. It is located on the campus of the United States Air Force Academy near the Community Center. The Prep School's mission is to prepare, motivate, and evaluate for admission to and success at the Air Force Academy. Students at the prep school...

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Mar 21 at 2019 11:08 AM

2019-03-21T11:08:28-04:00

https://www.goarmy.com/careers-and-jobs/current-and-prior-service/advance-your-career/warrant-officer/flight-warrant-officers.html

This only needs high school, minimum, though I've read that Army WOCS is a pretty rough program, I've gathered, I just didn't know if you knew about it....

Flight Warrant Officers

If you have dreamed of becoming a helicopter or fixed-wing pilot, the Army can help you turn that dream into a reality. Warrant Officers fly some of the most exciting, technologically advanced aircraft in the world.

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Mar 21 at 2019 11:09 AM

2019-03-21T11:09:23-04:00

https://search.aol.com/aol/search?q=uscg%20scholarships&s_it=loki-tb-sb

Read about these, these are the various USCG scholarship options....

uscg%20scholarships - AOL Search Results

Scholarships for Enlisted, Reservists and Family. The U.S. Coast Guard (USCG), which is a branch of the armed forces under the jurisdiction of the Department of Homeland Security, has several types of careers available for college graduates. You can become an officer, join the ranks of those enlisted, serve in the reserves or auxiliaries, or work for the USCG as a civilian.

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Mar 21 at 2019 11:10 AM

2019-03-21T11:10:08-04:00

https://www.gocoastguard.com/active-duty-careers/officer-opportunities/programs/maritime-academy-graduate-margrad

This is on the USCG MARGRAD program I'd mentioned....

Maritime Academy Graduate (MARGRAD) | GoCoastGuard.com

Maritime Academy Graduates have education and training that enhances the Coast Guard's ability to carry out its operational missions. Individuals selected will serve as a Coast Guard Reserve officer on full-time active-duty.

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Mar 21 at 2019 11:10 AM

2019-03-21T11:10:59-04:00

https://news.usni.org/2018/06/13/navy-implements-warrant-officer-1-rank-for-cyber-specialists

If you're inclined at all toward cyber, this might possibly interest you....

Navy Brings Back Warrant Officer-1 Rank for Cyber Sailors - USNI News

Navy pay can't keep up with private sector cyber jobs, so the service now offers a quick path to management as a way to keep talent.

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Mar 21 at 2019 11:12 AM

2019-03-21T11:12:06-04:00

https://www.goarmy.com/army-cyber/cyber-direct-commissioning-program.html

This is the Army version for cyber, this is likely one of those programs that'd entail going to an Army direct commission indoc OIS program, as I'd mentioned....

Cyber Direct Commissioning Program

System admin, web developer, programmer. Put your civilian experience to work and become an officer in the Army through the Cyber Direct Commissioning Program.

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Mar 21 at 2019 11:29 AM

2019-03-21T11:29:09-04:00

https://www.usphs.gov/student/

This is on the USPHS programs, they do also use engineers, comp sci (CS), and IT, not solely clinical fields, however, that obv depends on how short they are at any given time, of course...look specifically at the Jr and Sr COSTEP, it, as well as ROTCs, and also USMC PLC, as well as I think the USCG scholarship programs, can also be used for grad school, not solely undergrad, OK? Which you'd need to do anyway, I can assure you that, if you did go warrant or commissioned, you'd most definitely be expected to get, minimum, a masters, even if you had to do it part-time, as well as all your prof mil educ (PME) nonresident coursework, so trust me, this side could be well worth your time to look at, USPHS also has a much higher age limit, typ 44, I think, their clinical standards might possibly differ, I'm not entirely certain, plus, esp if you'd care to go for a psych-related clinical field, they have an agreement with the other major Federal svcs, Army, Navy, and USAF, to let USPHS psych-related clinicians be assigned to them for 3 yr tours, there's a website about that aspect, I'll try do send it, as well, OK?

Student Opportunities at USPHS Commissioned Corps

USPHS Commissioned Corps: internships, financial assistance, loan repayments, externships, other student opportunies.

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Mar 21 at 2019 11:30 AM

2019-03-21T11:30:06-04:00

https://www.usphs.gov/student/jrcostep.aspx

Here's the Jr COSTEP page....

JRCOSTEP at USPHS Commissioned Corps

PHS internships and externships: JRCOSTEP. USPHS Commissioned Corps.

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Mar 21 at 2019 11:30 AM

2019-03-21T11:30:49-04:00

https://www.usphs.gov/student/srcostep.aspx

Here's the Sr COSTEP page....

SRCOSTEP at USPHS Commissioned Corps

Financial assistance from USPHS Commissioned Corps: SRCOSTEP.

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Mar 21 at 2019 11:31 AM

2019-03-21T11:31:55-04:00

https://search.aol.com/aol/search?q=rotc%20graduate%20school&s_it=loki-tb-sb

Look at these on ROTC used for grad school, as I'd said, I'm fairly certain the other svc scholarship programs I mentioned all would allow it, as well, though you'd obv need to ask, of course....

rotc%20graduate%20school - AOL Search Results

WAYS TO ATTEND What Does ROTC Stand For? The Army Reserve Officers’ Training Corps (ROTC) is a way for young men and women to start strong in life. The college elective for undergraduate and graduate students that provides unrivalled leadership training for success in any career field.

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Mar 21 at 2019 11:35 AM

2019-03-21T11:35:01-04:00

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Hall_Center_for_Maritime_Training_and_Education

This is a little-known union based program, run by the Seafarers Intl Union (SIU), it's run along quasi-military lines, that can ultimately lead to Merchant Marine licensure by USCG, if taken far enough, for 3rd mate and/or 3rd engineer, my Dad had wanted me to apply to it when I'd been a kid, it'd been called the Harry Lundeberg school back then, it was since renamed, obviously, understand, it's not a military school, per se, it's a union-based training program, however, I mention it purely as a possibility, in case it might perhaps interest you at all....

Paul Hall Center for Maritime Training and Education - Wikipedia

The Paul Hall Center for Maritime Training and Education is a merchant marine educational facility in Piney Point, Maryland which is affiliated with the Seafarers International Union. Founded in 1967 in Brooklyn, New York as "The Seafarers' Harry Lundeberg School of Seamanship",[1] the Paul Hall Center is the largest training facility for deep sea merchant seafarers and inland waterways boatmen in the United States.[2] The school was moved to...

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Mar 21 at 2019 11:36 AM

2019-03-21T11:36:05-04:00

Read through all I'd sent you thus far, and, as I'd said, elaborate on your interests and/or background, so far as you can, if I can suggest anything more, or you might care to chat, just ask, OK?