Corrective Training: What have you seen and was it right?

2015-04-14T14:08:19-04:00

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I just responded to a post in another thread that made me think of this gem.

1. What is the best/worse corrective training that you either gave, or witnesses.
2. Do you think it was lawful?

Avoid naming names.
Note I will assist with #2 with a quote from a Army Regulation.

AR 600-20, Chapter 4, Paragraph 4-6b (1);
"(1) The training, instruction, or correction given to a Soldier to correct deficiencies must be directly related to the deficiency. It must be oriented to improving the Soldier’s performance in their problem area."

Response by SPC Elijah J. Henry, MBA made Apr 14 at 2015 2:47 PM

2015-04-14T14:47:36-04:00

Given that regulation, I have rarely seen lawful corrective training. It usually involves smoke sessions.

Another example I've seen was cleaning the latrine for wearing a PC indoors. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see how that directly relates to the deficiency or improves performance in the problem area.

Response by SSG Richard Reilly made Apr 14 at 2015 3:01 PM

2015-04-14T15:01:58-04:00

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Apr 14 at 2015 3:27 PM

2015-04-14T15:27:14-04:00

I've told this story before here.

I had a young Marine who was getting into the habit of being late. A little late, not a lot, but it was approaching "common" so it had to be addressed.

I had him meet me with his E-Tool at the base of the hill in Camp Horno on Saturday at 0800. I provided a bucket. He filled said bucket and met me at the top of the hill. It was a mile to the top. Empty bucket, meet me back at the bottom of the hill at the designated time with a full bucket. Rinse repeat, all day long.

Seeing as I was teaching him to be: 1) In the proper place, 2) at the proper time, 3) with the proper equipment, 4) in the proper uniform

Using an "object lesson" I would say it was lawful. I wasn't causing him any injury. I was going up and down that stupid hill with him. Sure, I wasn't digging holes, but he knew knew I wasn't just sitting there making him dig holes either. I had "some" effort, even if it wasn't "his" effort.

After our "lovely" day of strolling up the mountain together, we never had an issue with tardiness again, so I think it met the criteria of "oriented to improving the Soldier’s performance in their problem area"

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 14 at 2015 3:44 PM

2015-04-14T15:44:51-04:00

I have seen a few smoking sessions.

I got written up for Volunteering!! IS that a good one?
Of course it wasn't legal.
That's why my 1Sgt looked, read, laughed at and threw it away.

I personally never gave a smoke session when I was in. I was one of those that to be respected, you've got to earn it. My soldiers worked hard.

I did have a 2Lt try to write me up... That didn't go well either. I guess she forgot she wasn't a NCO anymore. IDK. Go figure. She just didn't like me. What can I say? Not many women did... And I have NO IDEA why so many didn't. Eh.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 14 at 2015 4:40 PM

2015-04-14T16:40:52-04:00

Whenever any of my Soldiers (NCO's and Juniors alike), screw the proverbial pooch, my go to correction is essays. Their instructions are to write a 500 word essay in pen, no errors and in print so I can read it. Also, I ask for references on info they gathered. Granted, the look I give them puts a little thought in their heads that I am going to smoke them. One of my Soldiers actually told me after turning in his assignment, that he would rather have been smoked.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 15 at 2015 1:06 AM

2015-04-15T01:06:41-04:00

Under this regulation probably 95% of the corrective training I see is unlawful. The problem with this line of thinking, however, is that a smoke session is often better for the troop in the long run and arguably more effective than a lot of the alternatives. Getting "creative" with corrective training presents it's own issues, as it can be misconstrued as hazing by the outside observer. I would much rather see a troop get scuffed up for doing something stupid and move on with life than file paperwork that will follow them for the next 15 years.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 15 at 2015 1:20 AM

2015-04-15T01:20:17-04:00

I believe in a good smoke session. Taught me a lot on be responsible for my actions and kept the paper trail off me.

I will try to do a sit down talk to insure they know what they are responsible for then if the problems continue a smoke session, if that fails I start the paper trail.