Congress wants to push through an accountabilty bill that hits the slackers in the VA. The VA doesn't like it. What are your opinions?

SGM Steve Wettstein — Sun, 20 Sep 2015 08:29:54 -0400

The article is not very in depth. Take it for what it is. But for what is there, what are your opinions on a bill such as this and also the VA's response.

http://www.armytimes.com/story/military/benefits/health-care/2015/09/19/va-takes-issue-accountability-bills/72400668/

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 20 at 2015 8:35 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 20 Sep 2015 08:35:17 -0400

If it deters applicants that don't wish to hold themselves accountable, is that a bad thing?

Response by COL Mikel J. Burroughs made Sep 20 at 2015 8:36 AM

COL Mikel J. Burroughs — Sun, 20 Sep 2015 08:36:26 -0400

SGM Steve Wettstein It will definitely take some work to get the legislation passed first and foremost. If it did it would send a message to senior management, but I don't think that is the one root cause of the problem. The system needs to be revamped from top to bottom in order to fix it. You will a lot of low hanging fruit(s) along the way when you change the system, the structure, the reporting, the culture and accountability. Don't know what a restructured VA would look like yet, but we are working on some ideas - see this discussion:

https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/white-paper-crowd-sourcing-a-solution-to-the-dept-of-vet-affairs

White Paper: Crowd-sourcing a Solution to the Dept of Vet Affairs | RallyPoint

All Con. Based on recent running discussions, it is beyond obvious that there is an issue with the Department of Veterans Affairs. At the urging of [~138758:COL Mikel Burroughs] a few members of the RP Community are developing a "White Paper" with a proposal on how to "Fix" this issue. The major advantage of the RP community is not only its size, but it's breadth of Knowledge, Experience, but also the fact that we care about this issue. We...

Response by Sgt Spencer Sikder made Sep 20 at 2015 8:38 AM

Sgt Spencer Sikder — Sun, 20 Sep 2015 08:38:54 -0400

Sure they would have push back, it's their asses on the line. Unfortunately I'm not sure this one bill will address some of the punishment unless they override previous statutes regarding retirement pay. Now, the back side of this matter. Will this cause these senior executives to put out good people to show that they at least tried to fix a problem, like the whistleblowers? Recently VACO put our new by-laws for physicians and in there disguised as a reason for removal is whistleblowing. So a physician voices an objection to a patient not getting particular treatment, like the expensive drugs or medical tests and says something to his congressional representative or senator and he is out of a job. Real nice!

Response by Capt Seid Waddell made Sep 20 at 2015 8:41 AM

Capt Seid Waddell — Sun, 20 Sep 2015 08:41:35 -0400

No bureaucrat accepts accountability willingly.

Response by LTC Bink Romanick made Sep 20 at 2015 8:57 AM

LTC Bink Romanick — Sun, 20 Sep 2015 08:57:54 -0400

SGM Steve Wettstein Quick fixes seldom work. To effect change in any organization it has to come slowly and in small increments. In most cases its painful.

These quick fixes for the most part don't work!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 20 at 2015 9:05 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 20 Sep 2015 09:05:55 -0400

So we don't want higher standards because we have a hard time reciting leaders? Maybe it they were to have higher standards or maybe even just standards then they would be able to recruit leaders. Also there are a lot of retirees that would love a SEC level job.

Response by SPC Jan Allbright, M.Sc., R.S. made Sep 20 at 2015 9:47 AM

SPC Jan Allbright, M.Sc., R.S. — Sun, 20 Sep 2015 09:47:52 -0400

"by capping the number of top managers eligible for the highest performance ratings and cutting retirement pay for officials convicted of felonies related to their jobs."

That's accountability?

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Sep 20 at 2015 9:48 AM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Sun, 20 Sep 2015 09:48:45 -0400

Both sides likely have solid points.

We want a well ran top notch system to support 6-9 million vets. The government salary caps at $400k (President) and the next highest is the $280k iirc (post master general), which is actually higher than the VP.

CEOs of major companies who do comparable work aren't even in the same ballpark, nor do they have the beuracratic hoops to jump through to make even minor corrections. Then we get into economy of scale factors...

Now Congress has some great points regarding stripping retirement from those convicted of felonies. And even of "term limits."

But all of it boils down to the middle ground.

Response by Sgt Kelli Mays made Sep 20 at 2015 10:10 AM

Sgt Kelli Mays — Sun, 20 Sep 2015 10:10:50 -0400

It has it's pro's and con's....and not knowing exactly what's in the bill and how it works...I cannot say at this time whether this is a good thing....

Response by SSG Leo Bell made Sep 20 at 2015 11:10 AM

SSG Leo Bell — Sun, 20 Sep 2015 11:10:39 -0400

SGM I thanks it a good idea. I'm waiting for a PCM here in Va since I moved back. It's been almost three months now. I keep having to go to the ER for help. It's so bad the doctors are starting to know me by name. The real problem is they are afraid to do anything to me but give me more pain mess and check my blood work. Last time I was n there one of the PA's said they are really under staffed with doctors and nurses. I've been waiting two months now to see a surgeon and I have to have a surgery in December to replace the feeding tube. They really need to do something to make the system run better and they need to really get rid of the one who just come there for a pay check n nothing else. I think it would be a good idea to hire veterans that are doctors and give them the pay that they deserve and hire the nurses and medics that are veterans. They would know how to talk to veterans and can relate to what we are going thru. It's just like here on RP we can relate to each other and we're all family up here.
Bell

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 20 at 2015 11:52 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 20 Sep 2015 11:52:00 -0400

Maybe they should privatize the VA, I don't see any way to revise or revive this system.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 20 at 2015 11:57 AM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 20 Sep 2015 11:57:54 -0400

One thing in the article that bothers me greatly, is why in the heck someone is getting retirement pay when convicted of felonies related to their jobs. That just seems asinine to me. Also the VA should be allowed suspension and removal of VA employees for performance and misconduct.

Response by MSgt Curtis Ellis made Sep 20 at 2015 12:03 PM

MSgt Curtis Ellis — Sun, 20 Sep 2015 12:03:14 -0400

It needs to be done. Period.

Response by COL Jon Thompson made Sep 20 at 2015 12:53 PM

COL Jon Thompson — Sun, 20 Sep 2015 12:53:05 -0400

I was going to post the same thing so you beat me to it. It always makes me wonder when a government agency fights an accountability bill or regulation with the argument that it will push away the quality senior leaders. So instead of every senior manager getting an annual bonus, now performance will determine who gets that and it will be limited to the top performers. That is how the civilian world pretty much works. The VA seems to want to continue business as usual and the continued poor performance seems to invalidate his argument about attracting top talent into senior leader positions. This really makes me upset and it indicative of what is wrong with our government on so many levels. No one is accountable and no one wants to be held accountable.

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Sep 20 at 2015 2:07 PM

CPT Jack Durish — Sun, 20 Sep 2015 14:07:17 -0400

I believe there is a fundamental flaw in any legislation designed to reform the VA. No matter how many times or by what method anyone attempts to reform any bureaucracy they are destined to failure. Bureaucracies simply don't work. Never have. Never will. The military has to provide medical services that are mobile, able to support the troops wherever the battle rages, anytime, anywhere. Veterans may be treated just as well as any member of the general population at home. If payment for healthcare is a valid right of veterans (which I believe it is), especially for maladies originating during and as a result of that service, then provide veterans with paid up healthcare insurance. Sadly, the Affordable Care Act is just the first step in a process designed to bring bureaucratic control to all healthcare and Americans are beginning to suffer the same healthcare issues that veterans are suffering: Waiting lists, inconsistent treatment, et al. Was this unexpected? Of course not. All anyone had to do was look at the performance of bureaucratic health care systems such as Canada and England which have served as models for the development of America's new and "improved" health care system...

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Sep 20 at 2015 2:22 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Sun, 20 Sep 2015 14:22:44 -0400

What quality leaders does he speak of? Those who are complicit in using a credit card make illegal purchases, those who see thousands die waiting for an appointment, those who have immense construction overruns? Those who pursue whistle blowers? Those who take bribes? Those who lie about the true state of the VA Center?

Response by LTC Stephen F. made Sep 20 at 2015 3:28 PM

LTC Stephen F. — Sun, 20 Sep 2015 15:28:44 -0400

SGM Steve Wettstein based on the problems the VA has experienced and caused over the past few years which has drawn Congressional anger [cost overruns, veterans needlessly dying while waiting for care, executive level mismanagement, etc.] I think there will be significant bipartisan support for a bill to "hold VA senior executives accountable ..."
After all the VA has even been an issue in some of the Presidential candidate debates. I am not surprised that the VA is pushing back. If the senior manager class at VA did not feel threatened by the potential for this type of legislation there would not be pushback from the VA.
I hope Congressional oversight especially in the US House, which is responsible for introducing authorization and appropriation legislation, will work towards a more efficient and responsive VA first by reining in the higher level management - Secretary McDonald will have his work cut out for him and it would be god if he had Congressional backing.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 20 at 2015 4:57 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 20 Sep 2015 16:57:24 -0400

SGM Steve Wettstein, The changes have to start soon. With vets dying due to waiting forever, hopefully will change with this bill. But the bill has to pass first. I don't know if the VA has lobbyists in Washington which tries to control these bills, but if there is a heart and conscious in any of the persons responsible, they will do their best to ensure this bill not only passes, but it is enforced.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 20 at 2015 5:04 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 20 Sep 2015 17:04:28 -0400

How about we get the VA turned over to the military where it should have been to start with - then maybe we will finally get proper care for our military veterans. The professionalism, checks and balances and quality of care I think would rise tremendously.

Response by LCDR Rabbah Rona Matlow made Sep 20 at 2015 5:16 PM

LCDR Rabbah Rona Matlow — Sun, 20 Sep 2015 17:16:05 -0400

It should happen sooner, not later. The issue is Civil Service protections. As long as those are in place, it's very hard to weed out the chaff...

Response by SSG Trevor S. made Sep 20 at 2015 8:23 PM

SSG Trevor S. — Sun, 20 Sep 2015 20:23:38 -0400

If the VA is butthurt because they have to have some accountability I am in favor of it.

Response by 1SG Michael Blount made Sep 20 at 2015 9:26 PM

1SG Michael Blount — Sun, 20 Sep 2015 21:26:11 -0400

VA needs to be torn down and rebuilt from the ground-up. Corruption and incompetence have rotted the infrastructure too much - in the old days, the Navy called such a condition wormrot. And there comes a time when you need to just trash it and start over.

Response by COL Jean (John) F. B. made Sep 21 at 2015 11:24 AM

COL Jean (John) F. B. — Mon, 21 Sep 2015 11:24:39 -0400

SGM Steve Wettstein - I am all for accountability and establishing a rating system/quota is not a bad thing, in my view.

Response by MSG Brad Sand made Sep 21 at 2015 11:40 AM

MSG Brad Sand — Mon, 21 Sep 2015 11:40:30 -0400

Of course they don't like it.

I think Congress is unlikely to pass such a bill for fear that people will demand the same thing from them.

Response by SSG Warren Swan made Sep 21 at 2015 11:45 AM

SSG Warren Swan — Mon, 21 Sep 2015 11:45:23 -0400

SGM, it's a start. But how can it get credibility when those leading the charge are also some of the most corrupt individuals in America? Pot meet kettle. The VA secretary is in a very bad position knowing he's got an impossible job to do with just 16mos to do it in before another president brings in his choice. No expert here, but the best I think he could do are some no crap assessments with unedited documentation, some forced retirements of the truly FUBARD, and do a battle hand off to his replacement knowing he gave him the best information possible, got rid of some bad apples and allow someone with more time on the clock to take those recommendations add to them and implement them. With just 16mos left give or take, it'd take congress a third or half of that to make a law to do anything with the voting and other mess they do to get nothing done.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 21 at 2015 12:25 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 21 Sep 2015 12:25:09 -0400

I seem to remember Rumsfeld trying something similar with DoD civilians, that didn't work out too well. I am not sure you can change the mind set that seems to be ingrained in the VA.

Response by SGT Christopher Churilla made Sep 21 at 2015 1:47 PM

SGT Christopher Churilla — Mon, 21 Sep 2015 13:47:17 -0400

The thing that surprises me the most is that included in the bill is a provision for cutting the salaries of those officials convicted of felonies related to their jobs. Shouldn't that be automatic?

But I definitely am in support of this bill.

Response by SPC Sheila Lewis made Sep 21 at 2015 2:42 PM

SPC Sheila Lewis — Mon, 21 Sep 2015 14:42:41 -0400

fire them, hire Veterans.

Response by SSG Jerry Eidson made Sep 21 at 2015 4:27 PM

SSG Jerry Eidson — Mon, 21 Sep 2015 16:27:48 -0400

The VA will find some nurse or DR., to take the fall for upper management's poor policy's!

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 22 at 2015 8:42 AM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 22 Sep 2015 08:42:33 -0400

SGM Steve Wettstein,
I say this is great. It's refreshing to see accountability being levied against the top-level managers of an agency that continues to have the same recurring issues that were supposed to have been elimintaed with the replacement of the Secretary and the Congressional hearings focusing on mismanagement and ill treatment of Veterans. It will be interesting to see if this legislation gains any traction or gets lost in committee, but I am hopeful for some resolution to the current Veterans Administration Medical mismanagement and mistreatment of our Heroes and Veterans who've given so much in the defense of our great country.

Response by SSgt Christopher Brose made Sep 22 at 2015 8:27 PM

SSgt Christopher Brose — Tue, 22 Sep 2015 20:27:21 -0400

Generally speaking, nobody should be rewarded for doing a crappy job.

Response by LCpl Stephen Rose made Sep 22 at 2015 10:14 PM

LCpl Stephen Rose — Tue, 22 Sep 2015 22:14:37 -0400

Have you ever noticed that if you have a huge group of turds, they're able to resist doing the right thing because those who call them out get thrown out of the group? That's the VA.

I had a VA desk employee inform me that I had to wait yet another year for my benefits to be reconsidered when they already wasted a year gathering evidence and didn't take 5 minutes to look at it all before denying it. He responds "some vets wait up to six years for a decision" like that makes it perfectly acceptable. I had to bite my tongue to not tell him he should be embarrassed for saying that.

Response by SFC Christopher Springs made Sep 22 at 2015 10:35 PM

SFC Christopher Springs — Tue, 22 Sep 2015 22:35:57 -0400

I don't think congress is doing this to hold those in the VA accountable. I think this is an effort to place blame. I think that when you enact legislation it should come with depth and seek to root out the central cause of a problem with thorough research to support your claim. What I see her and what I have read is the right hand chopping of the left hand to try and save the body. The Veterans Administration has been broken for years. There have been numerous surveys, reports, and changes in senior leadership to address this issue. The real reason that these tactics don't work is because they don't speak to the problem. The Veterans Administration is the single point of contact for veterans when they leave the service. They have no competition and therefore no reason to step up or change their service or to improve it. The creation of an alternative service to the VA that allowed veterans a choice in which agency to handle their claims would force those at the veterans administration to step up. People are motivated by money, time and job security. Hit them where they live if you want them to perform. Motivation is always a precursor for change.

Response by MAJ Paul Templeton made Sep 23 at 2015 1:11 AM

MAJ Paul Templeton — Wed, 23 Sep 2015 01:11:04 -0400

Who determines the definition of a slacker? Of course the VA doesn't like it they are like professors with tenure who think they can not be fired.

Response by PO1 John Miller made Sep 24 at 2015 5:16 AM

PO1 John Miller — Thu, 24 Sep 2015 05:16:10 -0400

Somehow I doubt this will pass. Anything that is for the betterment of veteran treatment I immediately dismiss. Call me cynical, but I feel politicians don't really care for us they just want to get reelected.

Response by SP5 John Thill made Sep 25 at 2015 8:47 AM

SP5 John Thill — Fri, 25 Sep 2015 08:47:30 -0400

yes, they should do this, actually long over due.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 30 at 2015 6:48 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 30 Sep 2015 18:48:37 -0400

disband the VA and just buy all veterans the best insurance on the market. Put the whole system to bed and be don with it.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Oct 21 at 2015 4:17 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Wed, 21 Oct 2015 16:17:00 -0400

VA: We should not be accountable of our own wrong doings. They are incapable of self regulation.