Concealed Carry On Base?

2015-10-12T17:21:51-04:00

What's your opinion on service members concealed carrying on base? Installation commanders discretion? Must have a valid CCW? DoD wide CCW license?

Response by COL Jon Thompson made Oct 12 at 2015 5:40 PM

2015-10-12T17:40:53-04:00

There needs to be some control on this. I personally am against it because I would be more concerned about a negligent discharge by an untrained person than by an active shooter. I saw too many incidents take place in Afghanistan to give me confidence that this is good idea. If implemented, there needs to be a detailed training program that all personnel must complete before being permitted to do this. Probably not a DoD CCW but perhaps a service CCW license.

Response by SSG Warren Swan made Oct 12 at 2015 6:18 PM

2015-10-12T18:18:32-04:00

No. Not that I'm against the act itself, but the retarded restrictions that will come of it. I also disagree with it in the principle of WHO would be allowed and who won't.Ohh you're seeing mental health, hand them over. You're in ASAP? Hand em over. Facing NJP? Hand em over. Having family issues? Cough em up. It would be so restricted and crazy that virtually no one would be allowed. Better to not give the privilege than to sit there and regulate it away.

Response by CSM Michael J. Uhlig made Oct 12 at 2015 7:13 PM

2015-10-12T19:13:25-04:00

Why conceal carry on post, we have enough weapons to cover our force on our installations....weapons are already paid for, can we not train the way we fight, instituting the guardian angel principle (threat dependent)......Why can't we train for our combat mission (on post) with our issued weapons? We went to a weapons immersion system of training in the Army roughly 10 years ago, with the idea of getting troops more confident with their weapon as well as reduce the negligent discharges....not so sure we need to conceal carry our weapons on post, if there is a reason to carry a weapon n post, do it openly and do it with a government purchased weapon as part of our training and part of our duty.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 12 at 2015 7:21 PM

2015-10-12T19:21:51-04:00

I think this is tricky because many don't live on base. When we are in a combat zone we carry and operate under specific ROE. Unless we can draft and train ROE specific for on-base operations we gain nothing beyond a training moment.

Also, we have some/many struggling with issues. Whether they are a new recruit or a veteran, we have mental health issues in our ranks. This may serve as a purpose for arming some but must be considered.

Finally, if we do arm people, we should train everyone for CCW and abide by local laws. Primary focuse would be NCOs and officers but Commander decides.

Response by CPT Griff Tatum made Oct 12 at 2015 7:24 PM

2015-10-12T19:24:42-04:00

I think we should be able to. There will always be "bad eggs" in any organization who cannot handle it, but for the majority, I think it would save lives, even if that chance only comes once a year.

Response by SrA Matthew Knight made Oct 13 at 2015 2:02 AM

2015-10-13T02:02:25-04:00

I think to some extent it should be allowed. If they did, people that carry should have to go through the civilian CCW class first. Then when it comes to on base there needs to be another course tailored to carrying on a military/government installation. Dos and Donts and what not. After that all holders should be required to have their info entered into a data base so that commanders and base security know and have accountability of who can and can't. Then of course comes the rules.

Rule 1 is members living in dorms/barracks shouldn't be allowed to keep their firearms in their rooms. The last thing we need is young 18 to 20 year olds screwing around with guns in their dorms or drunkenly pulling them on other residents.

Rule 2 is any members found to be messing with them in an unprofessional manner, I.E. pulling them out and messing with them on the job or to show buddies, should immediately lose rights to carry on base and face a possible confiscation of the firearm by base MPs or Security. Essentially there needs to be zero tolerance for tom-foolery with firearms.

Obviously there would likely be other rules as well but those are the two big ones I feel would have to be implemented, along with the stipulations I spoke about in the first paragraph of course.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 13 at 2015 2:21 AM

2015-10-13T02:21:38-04:00

Obviously with restriction as to who can carry. Following strict psych testing annually. I think this is a great idea. Israel lets service members carry guns on and off base in Israel and I believe over the last 10 years they have had one shooting. Good numbers if you ask me.

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 13 at 2015 7:38 AM

2015-10-13T07:38:34-04:00

Just to remind everyone ... it is concealed ... how do you know anyway??? lol

Conceal carry is only a discussion for bases that are small and don't have armory, for example some Reserve NOSC. For large bases, that already have enough armed personal ... I don't think that is a discussion at all.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 13 at 2015 6:55 PM

2015-10-13T18:55:04-04:00

I personally think that if you have a civilian CCW you should be able to carry on post. This already being done on several NG installations. That said, I think that all CCW holders who intend to carry on post should register with the Provost Martial's office, and qualify with the post LEOs/MPs to verify with the Provost their ability to do so safely. If you can't meet their qual standards, it gets locked up when you come on post.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 13 at 2015 7:26 PM

2015-10-13T19:26:00-04:00

CDR Mike Kovack Sir the current policy is only a few decades old, before GW Bush Soldiers were permitted to carry. I also have reservations with the premise that it is incidence of accident is infinitely higher than ever stopping an actual crime. Those studies are seriously flawed in where they obtain their facts, most are based around death statistics without any real evidence that shows CCW stopped crime simply because that information is not available. SGT Michael Glenn has made a good case for deterrence which cannot be understated. Gun Free zones are unarmed target zones. The counterargument that shooters are willing to die is ignorant at best all the manifestos are wanting publication and name recognition they don't want to die they want to be known and remembered which is why they choose soft targets. Colorado movie shooter chose that specific theater because it was a gun free zone even though there were closer theaters that he was more familiar with. Almost every case the shooter selects their location to do mass damage. Lack of guns means they will be able to kill more before they go down, that is why they choose those areas.

And yes you are wrong in the definition of a police action under the posse comitatus act. Military forces cannot enforce the law, nothing to do with self defense or "police actions"

I always wanted to require my Soldiers to carry their service rifles loaded with blanks to teach discipline before deployment but was never allowed to do so by CDR's who were too afraid of AD (with blanks).

Response by Cpl Isaac Park made Oct 13 at 2015 9:57 PM

2015-10-13T21:57:17-04:00

Are you kidding, sir? Are you oblivious to the drunk fights that break out among us lowly enlisted plebians? Don't throw concealed weapons into the mix. PMO already already does an excellent job doing whatever it is they do.

Response by Capt Richard I P. made Oct 13 at 2015 10:42 PM

2015-10-13T22:42:44-04:00

I don't think I caught this in time to merge it. But everyone who has commented on this thread should look at this one:
https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/arm-the-armed-forces

Arm the Armed Forces! | RallyPoint

The outcome of the discussion "Concealed carry for CAC holders?" by [~222148:SGT Bernard Boyer III]. Below follows my skeleton letter to congress, based on the edits RP members have suggested to the 10 points. Anyone and everyone is welcome to edit and personalize the letter for their own use in writing to their congressional representatives. We sent a mass email on 3 January, the swearing in of the new congress, now it's a free for all. You...

Response by Cpl Ronald Wiemelt made Oct 14 at 2015 12:45 AM

2015-10-14T00:45:00-04:00

It comes down to personal saftey. I think all service personal should be able to carry. Thats what we were trained for wasn't it.

Response by PO1 Bradley Carnine made Oct 14 at 2015 12:46 AM

2015-10-14T00:46:32-04:00

Most of us military have training above that of our civilian counterparts but on base we are regarded less able to defend our selves. We need to be able protect each other as well as our nation, yes with training we should be able to carry on base.

Response by SSgt Alex Robinson made Oct 14 at 2015 7:32 AM

2015-10-14T07:32:53-04:00

Who better to carry firearms than those who are trained to do so

Response by PFC Stephen Eric Serati made Oct 14 at 2015 2:56 PM

2015-10-14T14:56:31-04:00

Not recommended.E-6 and above on duty,CQ,not the runner,maybe