"Colonel: Soldiers Should Not 'Impose' On All Afghan Customs, Including Child Rape"

2015-09-08T11:24:34-04:00

From: Breitbart

United States soldiers should tolerate all Afghan customs, even if they go against American moral values, suggested Col. Steve Johnson, referring to a decorated Green Beret who has been reprimanded by the U.S. Army for “striking” a child rapist in Afghanistan back in September 2011.

“You cannot try to impose American values and American norms onto the Afghan culture because they’re completely different… We can report and we can encourage them,” Col. Johnson told The News Tribune. “We do not have any power or the ability to use our hands to compel them to be what we see as morally better.”

The practice of influential men using underage boys as their sexual patterns, known as “Bacha Bazi,” is an illegal but common custom in Afghanistan.

Sgt. First Class (SFC) Charles Martland, the Green Beret, is expected to be kicked out of the Army by November 1.

Johnson’s comments drew the ire of Rep. Duncan Hunter (R-CA) who, along with severRep. Al Green (D-TX) Beret veterans, argues that the Army should not discharge Martland for standing up to the alleged rapist, identified as Afghan local police (ALP) commander Abdul Rahman.

The incident took place in Afghanistan’s Kunduz province.

Hunter, a veteran of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, declared that the Army’s decision to dismiss Sgt. Martland shows the “moral decay” currently afflicting military leadership. Rep. Hunter told Breitbart News:

Martland’s experience shows the type of moral decay among certain aspects of military leadership—starting at the top. In fact, had he not intervened in my opinion, that should have been grounds for removal. At what point will Army leadership stand up for Martland for doing the right thing? Instead, they continue to hide behind a process that seems to makes most sense, in the case specifically, to an Afghan rapist who was happy to see Martland pulled from duty.

Rep. Hunter, who serves on the House Armed Services Committee, has written three letters to Defense Secretary Ashton Carter asking him to intervene in the Army’s case against the Green Beret, for the purpose of granting him his wish to continue serving in the U.S. Army.

Sgt. Martland admitted “striking” the alleged rapist accused of kidnapping, chaining, and raping a 12-year-old boy and then beating his mother for pleading for help. The local police commander reportedly laughed about committing the crimes.

Rep. Duncan Hunter disagrees with Col. Johnson’s comments about U.S. soldiers having to tolerate all Afghan customs even if they go against American moral values.

“It is, in fact, a fundamental duty for our military to project American power, strength, and values,”wrote the congressman in the most recent letter addressed to Sec. Carter, dated September 1. “The ALP commander’s action was a human rights violations—and SFC Martland was right to step in and attempt to protect the child from further harm.”

Duncan also noted that Col. Johnson, in talking to The News Tribune, claimed the alleged rapist was “an inch from his death” after he was assaulted by Sgt. Martland and Quinn.

A cultural adviser and linguist who witnessed the incident contradicted those allegations, telling the office of Rep. Hunter, on condition of anonymity, that the rapist exaggerated the nature of his wounds, adding that the provincial police chief “strongly condemned” the alleged rapist and suggested that “he should be dismissed, arrested and put away.”

The police chief commended Sgt. Martland for confronting the Afghan police commander who allegedly laughed when approached by Martland.

Prior to the September 2011 incident, Col. Steve Johnson commanded Sgt. Charles Martland when he was the commander in the Army’s 1st Special Forces Group.

Johnson was in Afghanistan when Martland and Capt. Daniel Quinn, his Green Beret team leader, approached Rahman for allegedly kidnapping, chaining, and raping a 12-year-old boy and then beating his mother for reaching out to the Green Berets for help.

The Army reprimanded Martland and Quinn, relieving them from their duties in Afghanistan’s Kunduz province where the incident took place back in 2011.

Quinn has since taken a private sector job in New York. Sgt. Martland is fighting to stay in the military.

Sgt. Martland is now facing involuntary discharge from the Army.

A spokesperson for the U.S. Army and the public affairs office for the U.S. Army Special Operations Command, citing the Privacy Act, told Breitbart News that the Army was unable to confirm whether or not the September 2011 incident is linked to its decision to remove Martland.

When Breitbart News asked for a comment on accusations that the Army had chosen to side with the rapist instead of Sgt. Martland, the U.S. Army Special Operations Command, said, “The Privacy Act prevents us from releasing any additional information about the administrative action taken regarding this topic.”

When the 2011 incident occurred, Sgt. Martland was serving with an elite Joint Base Lewis-McChord unit.

http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2015/09/02/colonel-u-s-soldiers-should-not-impose-on-all-afghan-customs-including-child-rape/

Colonel: Soldiers Should Not 'Impose' on Afghan Customs

Soldiers should tolerate all Afghan customs even if against American morality, suggested Col. Steve Johnson.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 8 at 2015 11:31 AM

2015-09-08T11:31:52-04:00

I have to say that Sgt. Martland was correct in his actions. This is not about American morality its about decent human nature. No child should ever be subject to that type of behavior and as a service member that has sworn to protect the innocent. It is a sad day when we are going to discharge a service member for doing his job.

Response by MAJ Jim Steven made Sep 8 at 2015 11:32 AM

2015-09-08T11:32:36-04:00

so, what exactly is the question?
I think sometimes that 'Murica sees itself as the end all, be all for all things moral. That our method of goverment is the best, our laws are perfect etc etc. Everbody should try an be like us - as we are awesome!
Some cultures are different. We arent all that hot at tolerating differences.
I am not saying we should allow crimes against humanity, but when you get closer to the line, it blurs....

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 8 at 2015 11:40 AM

2015-09-08T11:40:17-04:00

Child rape is morally wrong. Location and cutural norms are irrelevant.

Response by SCPO David Lockwood made Sep 8 at 2015 11:43 AM

2015-09-08T11:43:29-04:00

I would find it quite difficult to follow those orders. Especially when it comes to children.

Response by SSG Warren Swan made Sep 8 at 2015 11:47 AM

2015-09-08T11:47:58-04:00

"United States soldiers should tolerate all Afghan customs, even if they go against American moral values"....I'm going to wait and see where we didn't go and "offer" American influence in Afghani ways. This Soldier isn't a hero in what he did, but he shows the values many of us (myself included) share and hold dear. In the end, the fact he "assaulted" this "cop" was wrong. I don't think it went down the way it's being portrayed, but if the Army was to let him get away with it, what are you saying to the rest of the service? That alone could lead to some serious humanitarian and legal issues that we're not ready to face. I'm sorry SFC and you are falling on your sword with this, but in the end, it's for a greater good so no one else has to do the same thing you did. I'd hope this "noble" deed serves the purpose I described and isn't used as another means to thin the forces.

Response by PO3 Steven Sherrill made Sep 8 at 2015 12:16 PM

2015-09-08T12:16:37-04:00

Ok, so if I read this correctly, a US Soldier stood up against something that is illegal, but culturally acceptable, under the law of the country he was stationed in? Why? What is wrong with people. He did nothing wrong. This is taking morality, and humanity out of the equation. From a moral perspective, the "alleged" rapist is lucky he didn't get beaten severely for his actions. Faith in humanity: destroyed.

Response by Col Joseph Lenertz made Sep 8 at 2015 1:07 PM

2015-09-08T13:07:23-04:00

Bullcrap. Pandering to a child rapist is not what America stands for. And stopping or striking a child rapist is not just an American value/ethic, it is a human ethic. Raping children is a global wrong, across all major religions, and across the centuries. There are known Truths, and this is one of them. Even the rapist knew it was wrong. He laughed because he believed he'd get away with it.

Response by SPC David S. made Sep 8 at 2015 1:15 PM

2015-09-08T13:15:10-04:00

What about all the imposing going on with - let me invade your country and bomb, shoot and kill Afghans. I think that would be in conflict with their customs? Our very presence is imposing - last I check they didn't send out an RSVP.

Response by SSgt Alex Robinson made Sep 8 at 2015 1:18 PM

2015-09-08T13:18:24-04:00

Let's see what happens if the jackass Col's family member was a victim of rape.

Response by LCpl Mark Lefler made Sep 8 at 2015 1:19 PM

2015-09-08T13:19:26-04:00

I don't see this "suggestion" as something that could be seen as a lawful order, I would of done more then just slap the guy.

Response by MCPO Roger Collins made Sep 8 at 2015 1:32 PM

2015-09-08T13:32:34-04:00

I can't respond to this travesty, unless freed up to use profanity against our administration and all the lackies in the DOD.

Response by Sgt Anthony Carrillo made Sep 8 at 2015 3:17 PM

2015-09-08T15:17:01-04:00

Then they should tolerate ours. Why should we bend over and try not to hurt their little feelings when we all know they want us dead. WAKE UP

Response by SGT Mike Mangual made Sep 8 at 2015 3:36 PM

2015-09-08T15:36:59-04:00

That's BS

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Sep 8 at 2015 3:44 PM

2015-09-08T15:44:44-04:00

So with that logic the Holocaust was legal, requiring no interference.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 8 at 2015 4:13 PM

2015-09-08T16:13:36-04:00

Hmm.. I can't help but think, that if his pending discharge was for ANY other reason, Public Affairs would be shouting from the rooftops that his stopping a child rapist was in no way the reason he was being punished.

It's a sad day if we have stooped to telling soldiers they have to choose between their careers or being able to live with themselves.

Response by SPC George Rudenko made Sep 8 at 2015 4:14 PM

2015-09-08T16:14:01-04:00

When in Rome...

Response by COL Jon Thompson made Sep 8 at 2015 4:31 PM

2015-09-08T16:31:08-04:00

It is a sad for our Army and our nation when a Soldier gets punished for upholding human rights and dignity. According to LTC Johnson's logic, if an Afghan is torturing another because that is what they do, then we should not intervene. We are going to lose a highly trained SF warrior because of this. It makes no sense.

Response by Lt Col Stephen Petzold made Sep 8 at 2015 4:58 PM

2015-09-08T16:58:02-04:00

They must have changed the Trafficking in Persons training since I retired. It must now say that it is OK as long as it is a local custom. This is more of the moral relativism that has taken over many parts of the government. We cannot say that any local customs, no matter how heinous, are bad because all cultures are equal, so who are we to say something is bad. We have trained our folks to be decent, but keep putting these same indecent locals back in positions of power again and again and then they expect none of our folks to react negatively. Maybe more places like this need colonial governments.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 8 at 2015 5:04 PM

2015-09-08T17:04:05-04:00

I totally disagree with that "colonel" as well. We have a duty to uphold our values and morals, regardless of what the tradition is in some backwater hole. What they do once we leave, that is on them but we need to uphold our standards first - where ever and in front of who ever. Colonel Johnson is wrong. Time for him to retire.

Response by SPC S Meeder made Sep 8 at 2015 5:20 PM

2015-09-08T17:20:28-04:00

I think the Col should be subject to a thorough investigation to see why he thinks it is acceptable for a man in a position of power to rape a young boy; maybe it is because he likes to do it too.

Response by PO3 David Davis made Sep 8 at 2015 5:25 PM

2015-09-08T17:25:35-04:00

We had fights with locals in several countries in the middle east
For various reasons. I do not see the problem.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 8 at 2015 5:39 PM

2015-09-08T17:39:56-04:00

My problem with the statement is that those are not "American" moral values. The values have nothing to do with our country. I don't know of any country or religion in which raping little boys is "right."

Response by SGT James Elphick made Sep 8 at 2015 5:49 PM

2015-09-08T17:49:34-04:00

While I completely disagree with the action the Army is taking against SFC Martland, I can see how this is an issue, although a very, very complicated one. First of all let me say I probably would have done the same thing in that situation, but I was also just a dumb grunt. Being SF means knowing about cultural norms and having a better understanding of how to handle situations like this. It sounds like if they had just gone to this guys boss he would have taken care of it (and if anyone else has ever seen the Afghans dispense their own brand of justice, you know this guy probably got off light having his ass kicked by Americans). And while we have been projecting American norms and values onto the countries and populations we invade, that is not what we should be there for. It is unfortunately not our job to tell people what is moral, even if the Police Chief's action violate the basic laws of human dignity. Also, as SF soldiers, American soldiers, and in the hopes of bringing about lasting change in Afghanistan this kind of vigilantism (though warranted) violates the rule of law, something we are working very hard to implement in Afghanistan. We have to lead by example, even in the face of despicable people.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 8 at 2015 5:50 PM

2015-09-08T17:50:17-04:00

So now some dipshit colonel and the army high command protects rapists and pedophiles, not to mention pedophiles who beat up their own mother for doing what is right and what is illegal under Afghan law? Great job. I wonder what Col. Steve Johnson would say if his kids got raped. Col. Stiff Johnson deserves beating for saying such stupid shit, especially after the Army lost two great soldiers basically for doing what they are hired to do.

Response by TSgt Kenneth Ellis made Sep 8 at 2015 5:56 PM

2015-09-08T17:56:36-04:00

I draw the line there.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 8 at 2015 5:57 PM

2015-09-08T17:57:23-04:00

i was hoping this and Ash Carter's "Secret Sauce" were from the Duffel Blog

Response by CW2 Carl Swanson made Sep 8 at 2015 6:50 PM

2015-09-08T18:50:39-04:00

So if that is the case, why were we battling the Taliban for as long as we have been? I thought it was to create a better way of life for those who could not defend themselves (does this sound even remotely familiar).

Response by SPC John Decker made Sep 8 at 2015 6:57 PM

2015-09-08T18:57:31-04:00

Were we not supposed to have imposed on Nazi customs, or Japanese customs? Where would the world be today if we had treated the Nazi's and the Japanese military extremists as our quirky neighbors, instead of a scourge against all decent human beings? Sgt. First Class (SFC) Charles Martland should be decorated and promoted for defending an individuals HUMAN RIGHTS.

Response by CPO Randy Francis made Sep 8 at 2015 7:29 PM

2015-09-08T19:29:29-04:00

Col Johnson should have the Afghan in question babysit HIS kids.

Response by SGT Tommy Silvas made Sep 8 at 2015 7:31 PM

2015-09-08T19:31:22-04:00

THEN WE SHOUDNT BE THERE

Response by CW4 Anthony Carbo made Sep 8 at 2015 8:04 PM

2015-09-08T20:04:58-04:00

WHAT AN IDIOT REMARK, HAS NO REASON TO BE IN A UNIFORM.

Response by Cpl Matthew Brown made Sep 8 at 2015 9:53 PM

2015-09-08T21:53:36-04:00

Regardless of morals or traditions it's still against the la

Response by Cpl Craig Meaux made Sep 9 at 2015 12:27 AM

2015-09-09T00:27:27-04:00

The US needs to leave these monsters alone. Raping children and beating women is part of their culture . The Afgan people are not worth saving.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 9 at 2015 1:54 AM

2015-09-09T01:54:58-04:00

“You cannot try to impose American values and American norms onto the Afghan culture because they’re completely different… We can report and we can encourage them,” Col. Johnson told The News Tribune. “We do not have any power or the ability to use our hands to compel them to be what we see as morally better.” Huh, well, ok then, what the hell are we there for in the first place????? Isn't that pretty much entirely what we are there to do?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 9 at 2015 2:33 AM

2015-09-09T02:33:16-04:00

( DE OPPRESSO LIBER ) KEEP YOUR HEAD HI SFC MARTLAND YOUR NOT ALONE

Response by Lt Col Michael Hills made Sep 9 at 2015 8:06 AM

2015-09-09T08:06:46-04:00

Man it is nice to have that retired ID card and be able to say what I truly think and assure I am not calling out military leadership on poor decision making and values. That Colonel and the entire chain of command above him that fails (or failed) to take action to stop this injustice should be ejected from the Army IF this is indeed the event that is the reason and not just part of the story as can sometimes be the case. You might recall a fiasco at Penn State a couple years ago where the university leadership failed to take action in the case of child abuse and they were not only removed, but charged for their inaction, and that went all the way to the President. This is a clear example of one of the major reasons I opted for retirement, the moral decay of the leadership in all branches of service. When I entered the service, people were held accountable for leading and getting the job done but those last few years, all I saw was a bunch of officers hiding behind rules, regulations, policies and processes in such a way that their ass was covered and their career preserved, doing the right thing be damned. The service culture of the Air Force has become shameful in this regard and it appears the Army is in the same boat. Maybe a place to start would be to quit promoting folks based on who signs their report or the seat in which they happen to sit. This is a form of organizational inbreeding that restricts the ability for new ideas and perspectives from entering the gene pool and leads to such a singular point of view across the entire chain of command. I'm Lt Col Mike Hills (Retired) and I approved this rant.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 9 at 2015 9:45 AM

2015-09-09T09:45:36-04:00

No disrespect to the officer in question, but would he also say we should not interfere with the customs of groups who massacre innocents, including children?

Response by SSgt Charles Edwards made Sep 9 at 2015 9:57 AM

2015-09-09T09:57:58-04:00

So, we're supposed to be helping people in this God-forsaken country and yet, we get hemmed up if we interfere with imposing upon "local customs". If kicking out quality soldiers is the response to trying to do the right thing, why in the hell are we there in the first place?

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 9 at 2015 9:58 AM

2015-09-09T09:58:12-04:00

This doesn't pass the smell test for many reasons.

Response by SPC David S. made Sep 9 at 2015 11:09 AM

2015-09-09T11:09:56-04:00

Just because its been accepted for a 1000's years doesn't mean its OK to stand down and allow it to happen. Beating and raping women and children only repeats the cycle of this type of behavior and the people there are either to chicken shit or dumb to stop it. SFC Charles Martland did the right thing and everyone knows it but again on our side senior leaders are to chicken shit to stand up for what is right. Condoning the raping of children should never be allowed no matter the circumstance. If we are talking about Afghan customs they also have the known custom of using intimidation and force by corrupt officials to manufacture a belief system that makes people submit to their authority without questioning the merit - I think Martland was just speaking their language using an approach they know all to well - force. This is a shame this has gone this far -

Response by CPL Randy Bautista made Sep 9 at 2015 11:56 AM

2015-09-09T11:56:51-04:00

When you say tolerate you must mean in the sense of food and culture, but wrong things are wrong rape is by far way feel in the wrong. If you where talking about vocabulary customs dress code I can understand but not that

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Sep 10 at 2015 12:03 PM

2015-09-10T12:03:59-04:00

This is why the Bush administration was wrong in not applying the Geneva Convention. A crime is a crime is a crime. To stand there and do nothing is just as bad, what did this Colonel do apply the Nurnberg Defense? Please drum him out of the service quickly, break his sword and turn our back on him forever. I cannot tolerate someone who supports rape in way shape or form. A quick search led me to find this in the Quran:

[Quran 5:5] …….. You shall maintain CHASTITY, not committing adultery, nor taking secret lovers. Anyone who rejects faith, all his work will be in vain, and in the Hereafter he will be with the losers.

[Quran 24:30] Tell the believing men that they shall subdue their eyes (and not stare at the women), and to maintain their CHASTITY. This is purer for them. God is fully Cognizant of everything they do.

[Quran 24:31] And tell the believing women to subdue their eyes, and maintain their CHASTITY.

[2:191] Oppression (rape) is looked upon worse than murder.
[Quran 24:33] ……..You shall not force your girls to commit prostitution, seeking the materials of this world, if they wish to be chaste. If anyone forces them, then God, seeing that they are forced, is Forgiver, Merciful.

Tradition: Well the Prophet's outlook on rape...During the lifetime of the Prophet Muhammad, a rapist was punished based on only the testimony of the victim. Wa'il ibn Hujr reported that a womam publicly identified a man who had raped her. The people caught the man and brought him to the Prophet Muhammad. He told the woman to go, that she was not to be blamed, and ordered that the man be put to death.
In another case, a woman brought her infant to the mosque and publicly spoke about the rape that had resulted in her pregnancy.
Reference: http://islam.about.com/od/crime/f/rape.htm

Also Afghanistan is slowly starting to prosecute rape as a crime.
http://thediplomat.com/2014/11/afghanistan-finally-prosecutes-rapes/

When confronted, the accused admitted the crime to the Caliph Umar who ordered his punishment. The woman was not punished.

What Does Islam Say About Rape?

What does Islam say about rape? What is the law, and what is the punishment?

Response by PO1 Glenn Boucher made Sep 10 at 2015 1:35 PM

2015-09-10T13:35:05-04:00

I have to seriously question that child rape is an Afghan cultural thing.
I think we as Americans take the higher moral ground and we cannot stand by as some scumbag decides to sexually violate a woman or child no matter if that scumbag is Afghan, Chinese, American or whatever.
I can see where we don't put our morals on someone about their eating habits, such as Filipinos who eat with their hands instead of using utensils, or Middle Eastern women wearing various stages of facial and body covering to be in accordance with their upbringing and religious beliefs.
But never, ever try to condone rape or assaults as a cultural matter, that's beyond ignorant and to hear that from a full Colonel makes you wonder about his moral character.

Response by SPC Sheila Lewis made Sep 10 at 2015 1:41 PM

2015-09-10T13:41:35-04:00

Many have toiled to change that ancient society but the most the West can do is set a positive example in the hope the Afghans will realize how barbaric some of their customs truly are.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Sep 10 at 2015 2:02 PM

2015-09-10T14:02:39-04:00

I ask what a "normal" military person would do in that situation?

Response by Cpl James Waycasie made Sep 10 at 2015 7:21 PM

2015-09-10T19:21:09-04:00

My personal view is regardless of customs of countries, regardless of military orders, and regardless of how everybody else feels, I will not stand by in any situation where a child is being harmed. I will stop it and suffer whatever I may for stopping it.

Response by PO2 Corey Ferretti made Sep 10 at 2015 7:29 PM

2015-09-10T19:29:18-04:00

This is disgusting that a Military officer would state “You cannot try to impose American values and American norms onto the Afghan culture because they’re completely different…" This man Kidnapped raped, beat the boy and his mother for seeking help. When did we become such cowards? He stood up for what is right and now looking at involuntary separation. There was a time they would of gave him a pat on the back and a beer for what he did. This day in age we are too worried about makeing everyone happy and not standing up for what is right.

Response by SPC Nathan Freeman made Sep 11 at 2015 7:14 AM

2015-09-11T07:14:39-04:00

Reagan would disagree. "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall."

Response by CW4 Anthony Carbo made Sep 17 at 2015 1:02 PM

2015-09-17T13:02:31-04:00

Col, you are so far out of left field. How the hell can you command troops with your thinking. Rape is not a American Moral IT IS HOW NORMAL PERSONS THINK. I have been all over the world and would never stand back and watch something that goes so immoral to normal values to go on. I think sir you are in the wrong damn career. Thank God I never served with the likes of you.

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 21 at 2015 12:09 AM

2015-09-21T00:09:43-04:00

I just read the story and was getting ready to post it. To think that the military "leaders" allow this sort of thing is beyond disturbing. Culture or not, it's flat out wrong. And "leaders" who allow it are just as guilty as the pigs doing it.

Response by Capt Seid Waddell made Sep 21 at 2015 12:47 AM

2015-09-21T00:47:21-04:00

Tolerating this behavior in those we train is to take part in it ourselves. Any officer giving orders to look the other way should face court-martial and discharge.

Response by Capt Seid Waddell made Sep 21 at 2015 12:56 AM

2015-09-21T00:56:06-04:00

This behavior cannot be condoned.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 21 at 2015 1:16 AM

2015-09-21T01:16:32-04:00

As members of the military, there are certain times we have moral obligations that bleed over to become legal obligations. We are obligated to report sexual assault. We are obligated to report human trafficking. We are obligated to report suicidal ideations.

This isn't a question. This is a lack of integrity and morals on the part of anyone else who heard this and did nothing. Failure to act is tantamount to committing the act yourself.

I'm reminded of a quote from Edmond Burke: "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."

I hate to take something real, and add "Hollywood" to it, but this second quote is very appropriate as well. "...They watched as her assailant walked away. Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men." - Boondock Saints

Response by SFC Joseph Weber made Sep 21 at 2015 1:26 AM

2015-09-21T01:26:04-04:00

Same crap was happening in Iraq. Cultural rape and abuse is still rape and abuse.

Response by Capt Seid Waddell made Sep 21 at 2015 2:15 AM

2015-09-21T02:15:40-04:00

To condone this behavior is to take part in it. There is no excuse for looking the other way in this matter - any more than there was for looking the other way in the scandal of Abu Ghraib.

Response by SGT Jeremiah B. made Sep 21 at 2015 2:19 AM

2015-09-21T02:19:06-04:00

I remember when I was doing some work with an NGO in India that we had issues with how the men would treat the women. We were briefed to keep our damn mouths shut because we had a job to do and we weren't going to fix anything by running it. It was a painful reality to know that shitty things happen and getting involved would sabotage the mission. Change had to come slowly.

That said, yeah, this shit should not be happening on our watch. Not on our bases and not by men we put in charge of the villages they preyed on. Those men did the right thing and in some cases, should have been commended for their restraint.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 21 at 2015 3:09 AM

2015-09-21T03:09:07-04:00

Duplicate topic.

https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/afghan-commanders-abuse-children-don-t-tell-me-its-cultural

Afghan Commanders Abuse Children, Don't Tell me Its Cultural | RallyPoint

While I have not served in Afghanistan and do not know their culture nor their customs, no sane person can tell me what is happening here is OK and that our military has said to ignore this. The Marine in the picture, his father believes he died as a result of the Marines allowing this abuse to continue. Does anyone on RP believe this is OK or has anyone know about it? Personally I'd want to do the same thing CPT Quinn but I think I would have...

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 21 at 2015 3:16 AM

2015-09-21T03:16:06-04:00

Where is the written policy directing us to look the other way? Written by whom, when? Disturbing information any way you look at it.

Response by SSgt Alex Robinson made Sep 21 at 2015 7:41 AM

2015-09-21T07:41:20-04:00

Disgusting

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 21 at 2015 7:47 AM

2015-09-21T07:47:01-04:00

Unfortunately, while unpalatable to Western culture, it is an acceptable practice within Afghan culture, typically found in the Pashtun areas.

No one who has served in Afghanistan is ignorant of the practice. It is referred to as bacha bazee, roughly translated as boy games.

Response by SSG Michael Hathaway made Sep 21 at 2015 8:00 AM

2015-09-21T08:00:33-04:00

I remember sitting through quite a few uncomfortable pre-deployment briefs instructing us to not interfere with these types of issues, unless rape and assault were used as a weapon for war. And even then, it would be a gray area and best to let the Chain of Command resolve the issue. To this day, I still don't understand it fully nor have I ever found any policy regarding the matter. The general guideline was that we were not to upset our allies by influencing our cultural views upon theirs. Sorry, but forced sexual contact is a no-go in my book and when the victim is a child, I will deliver that perpetrator to the gates of hell. I get it, its not our culture, but that still doesn't make it right to look away.
I wonder what the higher ups would think about this Look Away mindset if perhaps a U.S. diplomat or military brass for some reason had brought their own child over there and then find their child as one of the 'play toys.' I seriously doubt even a high ranking General would turn the other cheek in that situation.

Response by LTC Stephen F. made Sep 21 at 2015 8:48 AM

2015-09-21T08:48:35-04:00

Yes I think it is a shame that American Service men and women can be punished for disobeying UNLAWFUL orders TSgt Dan Sawn.
Hopefully those who issue UNLAWFUL orders will have justice meted out to them.

Response by Cpl Jeff N. made Sep 21 at 2015 9:13 AM

2015-09-21T09:13:50-04:00

I've responded to similar threads on this matter but here we go...First, it is a crime in Afghanistan to sexually assault a child. It is not a "cultural" issue. This isn't taking your shoes off or something. It is a crime and a brutal one at that. When observed, we should be stopping it and at least turning these people over to the authorities. If the authorities do not/will not act then we have at least done what we could.

What message do we send to the parents of those children or to junior enlisted people observing this? I think we send a pathetic and weak message on doing the right thing.

The reality is we likely do not want to expose powerful locals we might need for the effort so we turn a blind eye to the assaults. It is disgusting and I would love to see some Pentagon brass get to answer some questions about the "policy" in the media.

Integrity and character and fundamental underpinnings of leadership. What sort of example are we setting and what sort of moral relativism is being accepted by leadership in the armed forces.

We don't have to seek it out or get into law enforcement but when we see it, we should stop it and turn the scumbag in and let them take it from there.

Response by SPC Jan Allbright, M.Sc., R.S. made Sep 21 at 2015 9:21 AM

2015-09-21T09:21:19-04:00

If you don't like what your "allies" are doing, perhaps they should not be your "allies".

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Sep 21 at 2015 9:31 AM

2015-09-21T09:31:36-04:00

Before I get into this quagmire, let me stress I do not condone any of this. I find the situation wrong on every level.

However, we have competing issues, which many people cannot grasp emotionally or intellectually.

First there is the matter of what is Morally Right. Of course what is going on is Morally Wrong. Everyone knows that. There is no doubt about that. There is no argument about that. Unfortunately, that is irrelevant. But, Aaron, WTF!?! Morals are a non-issue. We do not play Moral Judge in the game of international Politics (which warfare is, Diplomacy through force). We must separate that thought process from the situation.

Second is US Law or Legislative issues. Again, we are in a really bad situation here. What is Legal (or more exactly illegal) for the US is not necessarily the same for our Host Country. That's where we get into the SOFA agreements and our ability to enforce laws, not only theirs, but ours while we are GUESTS in their country. Again, when we are there, we have to play by a very specific set of Legal Rules, which although they are WRONG, has nothing to do with Legal/Illegal. Remember these are independent Concepts. Just because something is Legal, does not make it Right. Just because something is Illegal does not make it Wrong.

Third comes our Oaths and more specifically the Constitution. The Constitution is our defining charter of what is allowed and not allowed. It transcends all of this Right/Wrong, and Legal/Illegal BS (Above). Unfortunately, it does not mention these issues. More specifically it is about reigning in government power. As a document, it is almost exclusively about tying government's hands. As agents of the government, it effectively ties our officers' hands on these specific issues. For our Enlisted, our Oaths doubly so.

Again, this is not Morally Right, however that is an irrelevancy as far as arguments go. It is not Legally Right, were we inside the US. Unfortunately it is "Constitutionally Silent" which places our folks in a really bad position.

So that's the situation. We're bound by our Oath, which we are not violating the Constitution, even though we are committing a Morale Wrong (or at least complicit in one) yet the order is Legal.

How do we deal with that situation?

The simple answer(s) are: For Officers, resign their Commissions, they either agree to accept the morality of the decision, or they cut ties. For Enlisted, Request Mast, as high as they can, hoping for a change in policy. But nothing is as simple as it sounds on paper.

Response by SSG Warren Swan made Sep 21 at 2015 9:37 AM

2015-09-21T09:37:29-04:00

We cannot "force" our value and belief system on a foreign country any more than we should allow the Israelis, Russians, English, or Saudi to do it to us. Now the moment we take our value system and force it on someone we wind up where we are now, and troops are left hanging in the winds for believing in what IS right, but is actually wrong. In regards to the whole Afgan Chomo thing, I knew it was happening, my Joes, knew it, and if we knew it, don't think that ANY flag officer who was in charge of anything over there didn't also. We didn't like it, and outside of reporting it up the chain, there is nothing we can/should do about it. That SF NCO would be the bottom of the food chain if they allowed us to exercise our beliefs through the use of 5.56, 7.62, 25mm or everyone's favorite the BRRRRRTTTTT machine. But they don't in an effort not to offend the host nations beliefs yet sacrifice ours.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 21 at 2015 9:48 AM

2015-09-21T09:48:50-04:00

Some Leaders certainly do not like their boat being rocked.

Response by CPT Sheilah Day, MS made Sep 21 at 2015 10:17 AM

2015-09-21T10:17:07-04:00

I agree with you this is an outrage. I am sorry that I started a separate discussion when I saw the article. The DOD requires reporting of human trafficking so how does this get tolerated. I do not want our own country to cause PTSD within our soldiers by making them feel guilty by association and helpless to do something about this brutality

Response by LTC Bink Romanick made Sep 21 at 2015 10:29 AM

2015-09-21T10:29:40-04:00

It's cultural among the Pashtuns. Read "caravans" by James Michiner or "The Kite Runner" it's descriptive of the culture.

Response by SCPO David Lockwood made Sep 21 at 2015 10:31 AM

2015-09-21T10:31:19-04:00

I am sick to my stomach with this. It's disgusting and immoral.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 21 at 2015 10:31 AM

2015-09-21T10:31:25-04:00

Here is a shining opportunity to show the populace that we are trying to do good. We can protect the kids & mothers from those that are perpetrating this. Instead, when a soldier tries to defend the mother & child, he is unceremoniously discharged.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 21 at 2015 10:53 AM

2015-09-21T10:53:40-04:00

Evil can only exsist when good men do nothing.

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made Sep 21 at 2015 11:34 AM

2015-09-21T11:34:21-04:00

Thank God the New York Times brought this to light.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 21 at 2015 11:39 AM

2015-09-21T11:39:29-04:00

That's nasty....how are we to combat evil when we allow it to fester in the ranks of the so called allies of the Afghan police? Then we prosecute our own men for living up to higher standard and holding people of authority accountable to their charge. How disgraceful and sickening.....

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 21 at 2015 11:48 AM

2015-09-21T11:48:58-04:00

When I was in Afghanistan, the prevailing practice was to press a "Kuni" (literally, 'receiver' in Dari) into service periodically from within their own ranks. This must've been judged too dangerous and they've moved on to village boys.
It is widespread, and in my opinion is an offshoot of the Afghans' repression of their women. Their sexual desires need an outlet, and behavior towards girls like this would garner retaliation (at least when it isn't part of a child marriage... and those will cost you a bride-price) from the girls' families. So you get this.
Collecting a harem is not something I have observed, though. Accumulating boys as a status symbol is a depravity that will probably get worse with the passage of time. I fear that Afghan society has been so damaged and traumatized by decades of war and brutality that it will be a long time before it looks civilized again.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 21 at 2015 12:08 PM

2015-09-21T12:08:43-04:00

With a nod to Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS, I think he is onto something. My own take:
I think we are seeing the confluence of conflicting moral and political considerations. Morally, it has always been US ROE to intervene on behalf of non-combatants subjected to risk of life, limb, eyesight or subjected to war crimes. This is drilled into us in our upbringing, and reinforced in mandatory human rights classes we have to take.
The question is, is this a war crime? Nearly always, the US would legally delineate this as a war crime, and direct US personnel to detain violators and turn them over to Afghan authorities. I believe that is current policy as well. Soldiers taking it upon themselves to pummel a pederast get points in my book, but they are not right.
Enter the political considerations. Think upon who these people are. These are the individuals that we are turning over security to. How does it look when we are highlighting their abhorrent behavior? So it gets swept under the rug.
Punishment to service members who stand up for what is morally right is a message to others that might be contemplating the same thing - shut up. Nothing can jeopardize our withdrawal timeline.

Response by SPC Edward Mingus made Sep 21 at 2015 12:17 PM

2015-09-21T12:17:30-04:00

I will tell you that we used to joke about "man love Thursdays" when I was in NTC Adraskan. But I cannot say that we ever caught anyone or suspected any one person engaged in any sex acts. It was not until I was transferred to FOB Shouz that it seemed to have gone on. We allowed Afghan Staff Officers to have individual rooms as opposed to barracks style for them. The commander of FOB Shouz CPT Ken Bath and those of us with DynCorp suspected that something was going on when Afghan Staff Officers began moving additional bunks in their already small rooms.

We had spoken openly about what we suspected and CPT Bath decided that we would no longer allow Afghan Staff Officers to have rooms by themselves. They shared the barracks with their men. Of course this caused issues with some of them, especially one commander from Herat Province. He was the most vocal about not having a room to himself. He complained so much so that he reported the "embarrassing" accommodations to his staff. We were questioned about why they were not afforded private rooms. Kudos to CPT Bath for standing up for what was right. The Afghans were not given private rooms. We did put up a blanket separating the Afghan Staff Officers from the lower enlisted men. They still weren't happy but it remained.

Response by SCPO David Lockwood made Sep 21 at 2015 12:43 PM

2015-09-21T12:43:27-04:00

We have a bunch of idiots sitting on capital hill who's afraid to offend anyone so that would let others run over us instead of standing up for this country. Sad, offensive behavior from a bunch of rich a$$holes who only care how much money they can make.

Response by SPC Christopher Perrien made Sep 21 at 2015 12:52 PM

2015-09-21T12:52:56-04:00

Graveyard of Empires. Afghanistan and its people cannot be changed, and by being there our forces just cause more imbalances. NO reason to be there or name me one.

Response by COL Jean (John) F. B. made Sep 21 at 2015 1:09 PM

2015-09-21T13:09:43-04:00

LCDR Rabbi Jaron Matlow - This is very troubling. Our military personnel should never ignore criminal behavior, regardless of where they are.

Even if deemed acceptable in a different culture, condoning it by our forces is not acceptable and the chain of command should have taken steps to stop it, at least where our troops could be aware of it.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Sep 21 at 2015 1:12 PM

2015-09-21T13:12:35-04:00

Screw culture. I know what right looks like, and that is not raping boys.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 21 at 2015 1:31 PM

2015-09-21T13:31:07-04:00

While this isn't new, it is has been re-highlighted recently. As much as it pains me, that isn't our fight. I know that sounds awful, and I personally probably couldn't stand by while I watched it happen, but unless we are acting as law enforcement intentionally, we can't do it as a side gig while deployed there. :-/

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 21 at 2015 1:32 PM

2015-09-21T13:32:33-04:00

Well this is a tough situation. We are founded on the basis that we are melting pot of other cultures. Not all cultures however agree or get along (obviously) so at some point being tolerant of one means not being tolerant of another. We are there now.

Response by SSG Steven Dowell made Sep 21 at 2015 1:46 PM

2015-09-21T13:46:59-04:00

Just speaking for myself and the few I was on the COP with. We had our side of the compound and they had theirs. If any of their customs came into our AO we put a stop to it. As far as the hearing it goes, grab some headphones or something troop. It stinks but that's the way it is over there.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 21 at 2015 2:19 PM

2015-09-21T14:19:49-04:00

Our U.S. policy of nonintervention is intended to maintain good relations with the Afghan police and militia units the United States has trained to fight the Taliban. Does it bother you this is an accepted policy from this administration and congress. And where is all the voices of outrage against sexual abuse against people. The American public has it rammed down our throats that we as a nation will not stand for these atrocities. But yet here we are allowing it. Hypocrites from the President all the way down. http://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/us-policy-ignore-rampant-afghan-child-abuse/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=article_left

Response by SGT William Howell made Sep 21 at 2015 2:20 PM

2015-09-21T14:20:45-04:00

You want to know why the Taliban is making a comeback? Because the people in power like the ANA and ANP are raping and stealing from the people they are supposed to protect. Somebody calls up the Taliban and they go in and attack them. Then the victims think that the only ones that stand for justice is the Taliban, so they support them. I have seen it first hand. Heck I support anybody that will punish pedophiles and rapist.

Response by SPC David Hannaman made Sep 21 at 2015 2:22 PM

2015-09-21T14:22:22-04:00

Sometimes I question weather certain cultures are worth preserving. No sane person says "the Nazi party should have been preserved, even if they did attempt to exterminate the Jews."

It disturbs me that America has a policy of "turning a blind eye" to abuse and rape because "it's their culture". No, it's a human rights violation, and we're helping keep those people in power.

Cultures CAN however change... slowly, and at times painfully. Example, slavery in the South.

Response by SPC Christopher Perrien made Sep 21 at 2015 2:26 PM

2015-09-21T14:26:34-04:00

Only thing to do is request a transfer and GTFO of there.

Response by SGT Jeremiah B. made Sep 21 at 2015 2:46 PM

2015-09-21T14:46:55-04:00

In this case, it shouldn't have, especially in the circumstances given. At this point, we can only assume that someone decided the mission took priority over inter-cultural pissing matches without thinking about the ramifications (this approach appears to have actually made us enemies in the region rather than being helpful).

In most cases though, if you're operating in a foreign country, theirs trumps ours.

Response by SrA Edward Vong made Sep 21 at 2015 2:51 PM

2015-09-21T14:51:20-04:00

Our values are only important in our own nation.

Response by CPO Andy Carrillo, MS made Sep 21 at 2015 3:07 PM

2015-09-21T15:07:41-04:00

Can we agree that it is universally against natural, moral, and codified law everywhere to abuse children, much less sexually use them for pleasure? Sociopathology means a person cannot feel empathy for another. Amorality means having no sense of right versus wrong. We are lost.

Response by SPC David S. made Sep 21 at 2015 3:17 PM

2015-09-21T15:17:28-04:00

In the case presented I would argue that such behavior is far removed from the global culture homogeneity. This would suggest that the behavior is abnormal or dysfunctional and is deviating from the global norm. Globalization and cultural diversity will always lead to cultural decay of the dysfunctional - like the practice of human sacrifices or the gassing millions of Jews - most often by force. I think its rather simple - If a behavior is suspect of having a negative consequences and is removed at the local level yet both the local and global cultures are better off then the behavior needs to be at minimum examined for possible remodeling if not removal.

SFC Charles Martland, did the right thing in my book. I might of had an accidental discharge to his privates.

Response by Lt Col Stephen Petzold made Sep 21 at 2015 3:20 PM

2015-09-21T15:20:07-04:00

I liked the one comment I saw that said that interestingly the Taliban were punishing the perpetrators of this abuse while we are busy punishing those who report it or try to stop it. But then the Taliban do not have to deal with all the multicultural acceptance crap that we do, where we cannot say that one culture is better than any other, all must be equal and so therefore we must accept whatever bad things these cultures do. I must have missed the small asterisks in the trafficking in people training that said that trafficking was OK if it was a local custom.

Response by CPO Andy Carrillo, MS made Sep 21 at 2015 3:37 PM

2015-09-21T15:37:51-04:00

Dissonance is the stress created when two values collide (a concept used in music). I wonder about the effects chronic dissonance has upon American who become aware of Afghan military sexually abusing children and then told by superior officers to simply ignore it? I think about Matt Damon's wasting away due to his stress-related illness while suppressing the truth of what truly happened versus the cover-up. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Courage_Under_Fire

Courage Under Fire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Courage Under Fire is a 1996 film directed by Edward Zwick, and starring Denzel Washington, Meg Ryan, Lou Diamond Phillips and Matt Damon.

Response by CPT Ahmed Faried made Sep 21 at 2015 3:51 PM

2015-09-21T15:51:09-04:00

Not all orders are legal and/or moral. Enough said.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Sep 21 at 2015 5:17 PM

2015-09-21T17:17:53-04:00

Just because a culture tolerates sexual violence and rape does not mean the culture is right.

Response by SGT Joe Sabedra made Sep 21 at 2015 5:20 PM

2015-09-21T17:20:27-04:00

While I agree on customs I totally disagree on customs that would land us in jail.
If it is a crime to us here then it is a crime everywhere.

If not then we could have a military coup as that is a normal custom around the world.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 21 at 2015 8:17 PM

2015-09-21T20:17:14-04:00

This repulsed me. It's proof to me of everything I've thought about the Middle East. I couldn't lay there while I could hear a boy screaming because he's being raped. I would have to do something to help the kid. I would lose rank and maybe kicked out, but it is the right thing to do.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 21 at 2015 8:21 PM

2015-09-21T20:21:06-04:00

Why are we fighting for these people. Their culture is so far from ours, we will bring them into the 20th century. I say leave them in the stone ages.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 21 at 2015 8:24 PM

2015-09-21T20:24:21-04:00

Duplicate topic (again).

https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/afghan-commanders-abuse-children-don-t-tell-me-its-cultural was posted first.

https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/is-this-where-our-honor-lies?urlhash=981026 was posted second. I'm sure there were others I didn't see.

Same NY Times link in all three.

Afghan Commanders Abuse Children, Don't Tell me Its Cultural | RallyPoint

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 21 at 2015 9:11 PM

2015-09-21T21:11:54-04:00

So if we can't impose our moral values on them, doesn't that kind of decimate the whole "win their hearts and minds" mentality? I think so. Looks like we have to go back to the "old" way of fighting wars, killing as many of them as fast and effectively as possible....

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 21 at 2015 9:35 PM

2015-09-21T21:35:11-04:00

SFC Marland did the right thing. I would do the same. Every day than past I'm more convince that we are on our own, the punishment SFC Marland is qetting do not fit the crime, that's my opinion

Response by SFC Christopher Springs made Sep 21 at 2015 9:49 PM

2015-09-21T21:49:17-04:00

This is an example of of where professional ethics and personal values are in conflict and each and every person has to make a decision for him or her self. It is never right to allow someone to attack a child. However, this is my personal opinion. When I put on my uniform a Soldier I am paid to follow orders. I have not agreed with every order that I had to follow because some of them are difficult. However, no one ever said being a Soldier or a leader would be easy. i simply don't think there is a right or wrong in this situation. I just pray that those placed in these situations will make the best decisions they can.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 21 at 2015 9:50 PM

2015-09-21T21:50:52-04:00

Well known fact, Vice news had a good documentary about that almost 2 years ago and no body sad any thing back then

Response by LCpl Steve Smith made Sep 21 at 2015 10:19 PM

2015-09-21T22:19:12-04:00

Our Governments Foreign Policy's at it's best. "Look the other way" Thank you Commander and Chief, lets continue to Create the Enemy's of the future by Looking the other way. Thank God I was not an Obama Marine. Retaliations for doing what our Men are supposed to do, PROTECT and fight for The innocent. Hanging your Military members out to dry for going on 8yrs. Fucking "Big Green Weenie" Very Unsat "Look the other way" an unlawful Order and You Generals and Government over site Committees know it.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 21 at 2015 11:36 PM

2015-09-21T23:36:16-04:00

Child rape can not be tolerated no matter where it takes place. There are no circumstances where this should be allowed.

Response by Capt Walter Miller made Sep 21 at 2015 11:52 PM

2015-09-21T23:52:37-04:00

Damn right. Taking offense to pederasty might have a bad effect on Defense stocks.

Walt

Response by Cpl James Waycasie made Sep 21 at 2015 11:57 PM

2015-09-21T23:57:47-04:00

Wow, I'm reading down these comments and see several "Officers" saying it's a" cultural thing" So friggen what? does that mean it is acceptable? Is this what our Officers in the military have become?, Raping young boys is acceptable because it's cultural? Sin is sin I don't care what you call it and those condoning it or ignoring it are just as guilty as those participating in my book. All you so called Officers that are saying it's a cultural thing and not condemning it, all I can say is thank God I didn't have to serve under any of you ignorant fools.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 22 at 2015 12:28 AM

2015-09-22T00:28:51-04:00

At which point I'd have to ask, "What the hell are we here for, then?"

We killed bin-Laden; we should declare victory and pull out. After the Chinese move in, they'll look back on the American era as "the good old days".

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 22 at 2015 1:05 AM

2015-09-22T01:05:15-04:00

Unfortunately, no. I think that he erred in striking the Afghan Police Chief as opposed to detaining him for Afghan authorities to deal with him in accordance with standing orders and a asked and answered clarification on the subject.
His big mistake, though was to bring embarrassment to political level leaders in the US Government, a cardinal sin these days. While there are those who will come to his defense, his senior leaders will not be among them.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 22 at 2015 1:19 AM

2015-09-22T01:19:57-04:00

This undermines our values, morals and mission. It's hard to win "hearts and minds" of the people you are trying to help when we have to stand by with our hands tied and do nothing when our "allies" act morally depraved and carry out counter productive actions against the people they are their to protect. The soldier did what was morally right and stood by the code of conduct and values we are taught to defend and uphold. I, like so many others could have easily and without hesitation, would have done exactly the same in that situation regardless of the circumstances and punishment. It undermines the mission of connecting with people ( kinda hard to convince a village of afghans to trust you to protect them against the Taliban when you can't even protect them from being harassed or worse from your afghan security counterparts). If this is the case then the soldier should not be penalized and be given the ability to continue to serve. This man in the worst situation in a war zone did what was morally right and it shows the character of the type of leaders we need in our service. He didn't jeopardize the mission or his men and he showed the afghan people he was there to assist and that Americans don't tolorate degenerates, even if they wear the title of "Allie".

Response by SrA Matthew Knight made Sep 22 at 2015 2:54 AM

2015-09-22T02:54:50-04:00

We definitely need to realign our focus to preserving our heritage and culture here in the United States. The problem is so many people in this country feel like we need to set the world standard by being the text book example of a perfect country. What they don't realize is that in this feeble attempt to achieve this goal we are destroying our own culture in the process.

Response by COL Jean (John) F. B. made Sep 22 at 2015 7:49 AM

2015-09-22T07:49:20-04:00

CPT Private RallyPoint Member - Military personnel should never be denied the right to report and confront illegal/immoral activity, regardless of the location and circumstances. While I do not know all the details of the incident, from what I have read, it appears that SFC Martland should be cleared of any wrongdoing, his records should be corrected, and he should be retained in the military.

Response by COL Jean (John) F. B. made Sep 22 at 2015 7:50 AM

2015-09-22T07:50:37-04:00

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 22 at 2015 8:27 AM

2015-09-22T08:27:43-04:00

Alright, thinking about this a little more now, and contemplating a couple of things:

1- We're probably instructed not to deal with this "custom" because it is likely widespread, and rooting it out and dealing with it would basically be the beginning of a never-ending mission of social work. Since we don't know how long we're going to be there, with bases or whatnot, someone probably decided that it's just a can of worms that shouldn't be opened unless we are going to commit to it-- and, while we're trying to end the process, it'll lead to confrontation with the Afghans. And if we pull out of Afghanistan entirely, it'll go right back to the way it was.

2- In the meantime, being told to ignore this situation is pretty much asking our troops to do the impossible: to ignore a serious crime and to contain themselves from acting against it, while simultaneously upholding standards of conduct and rules of war. We all know what the end result will be: troops operating at the tactical level will sneak out quietly and administer "justice" on their own while squad and platoon leadership pretends not to know anything-- and that is how discipline begins to break down.

The decision whether to commit or not to Afghanistan needs to be made, and made quickly, so we can either devote ourselves to correcting this nonsense, or extricate ourselves as soon as possible. Every new dawn in Afghanistan without a commitment either way is going to contribute to a serious erosion.

Response by LTC Bink Romanick made Sep 22 at 2015 11:40 AM

2015-09-22T11:40:13-04:00

Breitbart??????? Really?????

Response by Cpl Mark McMiller made Sep 22 at 2015 12:06 PM

2015-09-22T12:06:42-04:00

I understand Colonel Johnson's reasoning, but I think it is wrong. We are supposed to be the good guys...period. Pull your head out of your ass, Colonel.

Response by SSgt Christopher Brose made Sep 22 at 2015 1:54 PM

2015-09-22T13:54:10-04:00

When I read crap like this, I am so glad I retired.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 22 at 2015 4:13 PM

2015-09-22T16:13:42-04:00

The COOL is an ahole and abettor of a serious crime. He is complicit and weak!

Response by SSG Stan Popov made Sep 22 at 2015 4:21 PM

2015-09-22T16:21:45-04:00

General forgives deserter because he was "unrealisticly idealistic", Colonel implies child rape is OK as long as it's a "custom". The law is inside out, the world is upside down. What has happened?

Response by Sgt Frank Rinchich made Sep 22 at 2015 5:19 PM

2015-09-22T17:19:37-04:00

Then Colonel with all due respect if you can witness something like that and say it's a custom , then what the hell we doing there in the first place. I hope all that condemn the soldier will take a long look in the mirror. I am not a religious person, but do you think hanging Jesus Christ on a cross because that was the custom should be accepted? We are there to help them become civilized people. or are we there just to kill how ever many we can. and even then a soldier can get his ass in a sling . you sir are part of the problem with tying the warriors hands. The Sgt. should have butt smacked the idiot .

Response by MSG Frederick Pankey made Sep 22 at 2015 6:49 PM

2015-09-22T18:49:21-04:00

We a
Had the same rules of engagement while being trainers to an Iraqi battalion in 2008. There were dead Iraqi Soldiers turning up and we were told to not get involved, don't worry about it. Not our purpose or focus. This was happening on our base.

Response by Sgt Spencer Sikder made Sep 22 at 2015 8:17 PM

2015-09-22T20:17:11-04:00

So am I to understand the Colonel's perspective correctly, when in Rome do as the Romans do??? If we are trying to convert these countries into "Democratic" societies, then aren't we "imposing" on their customs? WTF??? Would have been nice if Afghanistan had nation wide television and could have televised the soldier's whooping on this Afghani to teach them.

Response by Col Lyman Faith made Sep 22 at 2015 8:20 PM

2015-09-22T20:20:10-04:00

Wow, I really cannot believe the words coming out of his mouth. If I remember correctly, Law of Armed Conflict training stated that we could not ignore and were required to prevent and report illegal actions by U.S. military personnel or our allies. I am pretty sure rape is a war crime. Also, if you failed to act, you were considered complicit in the war crime. However, I have been retired a while and we may now have some clause that exempts rape for cultural reasons (Yes, I am joking).

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 22 at 2015 9:13 PM

2015-09-22T21:13:58-04:00

Pentagon Deeply Concerned Over Reports of Afghan Allies' Abuse of Boys

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2015/09/21/pentagon-deeply-concerned-over-reports-afghan-allies-abuse-boys.html?ESRC=army_150921.nl

Pentagon Deeply Concerned Over Reports of Afghan Allies' Abuse of Boys

The U.S. military command in Afghanistan was aware of charges that some Afghan commanders had sexually abused boys, the DoD said.

Response by LCpl Stephen Rose made Sep 22 at 2015 9:41 PM

2015-09-22T21:41:37-04:00

Isn't the entire reason we're still there is to instill Constitutional rights to fellow human beings that deserve freedom? I am pretty sure that includes the freedom not to be raped by government officials. The Army is being destroyed with PC BS in place of morals and it doesn't represent what America is supposed to stand for if we punish someone for trying to save a boy's freedom. Check into any mental hospital, lots of patients are there for reasons like what was happening to that boy and anyone who knew of this incident and did not step in shouldn't wear the uniform. We bring justice to all, not just those who can give back to us.

Response by Maj William Gambrell made Sep 22 at 2015 10:18 PM

2015-09-22T22:18:24-04:00

My opinion...we should adhere to the fullest customs possible until humanity decides to make that decision for us. When it does, jump in and fix the problem with lowest violence possible and then increase as needed...ignoring politics. It is not our job to play politics.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 22 at 2015 11:43 PM

2015-09-22T23:43:45-04:00

It shows a real schizophrenia among DoD leadership when we are kicking someone out for preventing the rape of a child, and at the same time kicking out pilots at Sheppard for a consensual relationship between officers.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2015 12:38 AM

2015-09-23T00:38:28-04:00

So when the muslims finally get their way in America, and their laws become our laws, which is only a matter of time before that happens, we should let them murder and rape women and children, simply because it is their culture? I think not..

Response by PO2 Edward Shelton made Sep 23 at 2015 11:26 AM

2015-09-23T11:26:20-04:00

If I was in that SFC's shoes, I would have done more than "striking". I don't care what nationality custom it is. Hard to believe the lack of spine the upper chain of command there have.

Response by 1LT Christopher Sorge made Sep 23 at 2015 11:52 AM

2015-09-23T11:52:55-04:00

Disgusting and shameful are two worda that come to mind regarding this situation and the tolerance of the intolerable.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2015 1:01 PM

2015-09-23T13:01:43-04:00

Lets see:

1) Rape is a violation of Human Rights.
2) Raping a child not only hits my first point, but also leads to make these children an issue later one. Either they themselves will rape or become increasingly hostel to others (including women, but over there dogs have a higher priority).
3) We are trained, educated, and informed that we have to knock these acts out when we see them. Clearly a Col forgot his CBTs and needs a refresher

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2015 2:46 PM

2015-09-23T14:46:56-04:00

Response by SSgt Randy Saulsberry made Sep 23 at 2015 8:36 PM

2015-09-23T20:36:56-04:00

To answer the question in the first line of your post, yes we are a people the can sit idle and let disgusting behavior stand because of politics. Case in point, everything we claim that are horrible actions committed by Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine and a bunch of others are also committed by Israel, Saudi Arabia, China and we dont say anything to these countries. we just turn a blind eye and accuse others and say how bad they are.

Response by SSgt Randy Saulsberry made Sep 23 at 2015 8:37 PM

2015-09-23T20:37:58-04:00

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Sep 23 at 2015 9:16 PM

2015-09-23T21:16:43-04:00

He is the political pawn that suffers.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 24 at 2015 2:24 AM

2015-09-24T02:24:48-04:00

So we have a Col. Involved in ISAF (a US Led, UN Backed Non-Article 5 force) openly opposing the United Nations resolution requiring peace keeping forces to actively protect women and children in combat zones from sexual exploitation and assault... I don't generally agree with a lot of the UN but gotta say when the majority of the worlds nations agree that child rape in a war zone is a bad thing, our leaders should all be on board 100%

United Nations Official Document

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Response by SMSgt Bob Swanson made Sep 24 at 2015 8:39 AM

2015-09-24T08:39:39-04:00

I'm surprised the good Colonel supports child rape.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 24 at 2015 3:35 PM

2015-09-24T15:35:33-04:00

i agree , as much as those people are what they are , we cannot do things like that. We can, however, advise and influence behaviors. Ultimatelly in my opinion, it starts with culture and poor education system in Afghanistan.

Response by PO1 John Miller made Sep 25 at 2015 3:15 AM

2015-09-25T03:15:18-04:00

So fucking glad I have my DD214 and retired ID card and don't have to deal with bullshit like this anymore!

SGT Martland is a hero and should be treated as such!

Response by PO1 Glenn Boucher made Sep 25 at 2015 1:58 PM

2015-09-25T13:58:10-04:00

Child rape is a custom? In whose friggin, twisted, warped sense of reality?
I don't give a rats ass where your from, where you grew up, what your cultural teachings were but I can pretty much say with certainty that child rape is not acceptable except to those sick scumbags who do it.
I don't know anyone who has a brain and sense of decency who would not step in and stop something this vile from happening or at least take some action to stop it. I also think that Sgt. Martland showed more restraint by not ending that scumbags existence.

Response by SGT Michael Glenn made Sep 30 at 2015 4:51 PM

2015-09-30T16:51:11-04:00

Then why in the hell are we there???

Response by PO2 Michael Henry made Feb 21 at 2016 2:40 AM

2016-02-21T02:40:27-05:00

Throw that Colonel out. It is not a custom to rape children. That goes against everyone's moral values.

Response by SPC Ron Hines made May 26 at 2016 11:46 PM

2016-05-26T23:46:16-04:00

Politics as usual

Response by CSM Andrew Perrault made Mar 30 at 2017 5:06 PM

2017-03-30T17:06:41-04:00

Well the Col's view is as screwed up as the Afghan raping children and if the Col truly believes this then I think he needs to do a gut check and also look between his legs and man up and do the hard right over the easy wrong......There is nothing RIGHT about children being raped..............Screw their culture ...they need to join the 21st century. I would probably guess the Col is against them humping donkey's and other farm animals...but ok to rape children...............Hooah to Sgt Martland......for doing the right thing.............

Response by Sgt Frank Rinchich made Apr 6 at 2017 6:38 PM

2017-04-06T18:38:14-04:00

Sick bastards, Col. included. We are not trying to impose American way of life, we are imposing the human way of life. children should be protected by adults what ever the cost.

Response by Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth made Apr 11 at 2017 1:50 PM

2017-04-11T13:50:38-04:00

BUMP THAT---We are there because they want us there and guess what...we bring our morality with us. If you don't like it, then we can come home and you can fight on your own!!! I would tell my soldiers or Airmen, we are here to protect ALL Afghan citizens...period. You do your job and let me handle the fallout. Those comments are nuts

Response by LCpl Robin Campbell Williams Stillman made May 27 at 2017 12:54 PM

2017-05-27T12:54:03-04:00

COL. JOHNSON is/was wrong. The fight against terrorism is as much a fight againt ideology as it is agaist terror itself... that boy would always remember the American who came to his defense as would his mother. That is how you win allies. Americans should always stand for what is morally right, defend the weak and innocent. As Americans we have a soft spot for Children and Dogs... we should defend vigorously, as much as possible, those people being repressed and brutalized!

Response by SSG Jimmy Cernich made May 16 at 2020 12:43 AM

2020-05-16T00:43:49-04:00

Middle East is sick with that junk.Its truly disgusting.We allow people like this man to continue to rape little boys and get away with it.Thank you Green Beret for holding up values and trying to protect the innocent.Thank you for doing your job.

Response by SSG Jimmy Cernich made May 16 at 2020 12:49 AM

2020-05-16T00:49:52-04:00

Soldiers should impose on child raping it's the same has catching sick human trafficking individuals

Response by CPL Sharon Fahey made May 29 at 2020 10:46 AM

2020-05-29T10:46:35-04:00

This whole thing is absolutely destructive to the American Soldier. Only animals are capable of the above actions. Afghans are animals! Our people come back with enough crap to deal with but to force any of us to accept, look away or condone behavior unacceptable to most human beings in the world just adds an element to the psyche that isn't easily healed or reversed. Sick of pentagon echelon who make all the decisions without any regard to the aftermath we go through, not them. They just throw us away and infect the next round of soldiers go through. We are a moral nation, regardless of the perverts that want to change it. It's bullshit to charge a soldier for doing the right thing regardless what country we're in, especially in Afghanistan! We're American soldiers not misfits from Afghanistan. This whole thing makes me so angry! Who are we anymore?