Chris Kyle; Are we just mindlessly succumbing to Patriotic propaganda?

MAJ Bryan Zeski — Fri, 09 Jan 2015 22:25:27 -0500

I'll withhold my personal thoughts for the time being. Just curious what objectivity we have here.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jan/06/real-american-sniper-hate-filled-killer-why-patriots-calling-hero-chris-kyle

Article:

I have to confess: I was suckered by the trailer for American Sniper. It’s a masterpiece of short-form tension – a confluence of sound and image so viscerally evocative it feels almost domineering. You cannot resist. You will be stressed out. You will feel. Or, as I believe I put it in a blog about the trailer, “Clint Eastwood’s American Sniper trailer will ruin your pants.”

But however effective it is as a piece of cinema, even a cursory look into the film’s backstory – and particularly the public reaction to its release – raises disturbing questions about which stories we choose to codify into truth, and whose, and why, and the messy social costs of transmogrifying real life into entertainment.

Chris Kyle, a US navy Seal from Texas, was deployed to Iraq in 2003 and claimed to have killed more than 255 people during his six-year military career. In his memoir, Kyle reportedly described killing as “fun”, something he “loved”; he was unwavering in his belief that everyone he shot was a “bad guy”. “I hate the damn savages,” he wrote. “I couldn’t give a flying #### about the Iraqis.” He bragged about murdering looters during Hurricane Katrina, though that was never substantiated.

He was murdered in 2013 at a Texas gun range by a 25-year-old veteran reportedly suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder.

However we diverge politically, I have enough faith in Eastwood’s artistry and intellect to trust that he is not a black-and-white ideologue – or, at least, that he knows that the limitations of such a worldview would make for an extremely dull movie. But the same can’t be said for Eastwood’s subject, or, as response to the film has demonstrated, many of his fans.

As Laura Miller wrote in Salon: “In Kyle’s version of the Iraq war, the parties consisted of Americans, who are good by virtue of being American, and fanatic Muslims whose ‘savage, despicable evil’ led them to want to kill Americans simply because they are Christians.”

Adds Scott Foundas at Variety: “Chris Kyle saw the world in clearly demarcated terms of good and evil, and American Sniper suggests that such dichromatism may have been key to both his success and survival; on the battlefield, doubt is akin to death.”

Eastwood, on the other hand, Foundas says, “sees only shades of gray”, and American Sniper is a morally ambiguous, emotionally complex film. But there are a lot of Chris Kyles in the world, and the chasm between Eastwood’s intent and his audience’s reception touches on the old Chappelle’s Show conundrum: a lot of white people laughed at Dave Chappelle’s rapier racial satire for the wrong reasons, in ways that may have actually exacerbated stereotypes about black people in the minds of intellectual underachievers. Is that Chappelle’s fault? Should he care?

Likewise, much of the US right wing appears to have seized upon American Sniper with similarly shallow comprehension – treating it with the same unconsidered, rah-rah reverence that they would the national anthem or the flag itself. Only a few weeks into its release, the film has been flattened into a symbol to serve the interests of an ideology that, arguably, runs counter to the ethos of the film itself. How much, if at all, should Eastwood concern himself with fans who misunderstand and misuse his work? If he, intentionally or not, makes a hero out of Kyle – who, bare minimum, was a racist who took pleasure in dehumanising and killing brown people – is he responsible for validating racism, murder, and dehumanisation? Is he a propagandist if people use his work as propaganda?

That question came to the fore last week on Twitter when several liberal journalists drew attention to Kyle’s less Oscar-worthy statements. “Chris Kyle boasted of looting the apartments of Iraqi families in Fallujah,” wrote author and former Daily Beast writer Max Blumenthal. “Kill every male you see,” Rania Khalek quoted, calling Kyle an “American psycho”.

Retaliation from the rightwing twittersphere was swift and violent, as Khalek documented in an exhaustive (and exhausting) post at Alternet. “Move your America hating ass to Iraq, let ISIS rape you then cut your #### head off, ####### media whore muslim,” wrote a rather unassuming-looking mom named Donna. “Rania, maybe we to take you ass overthere and give it to ISIS … Dumb bitch,” offered a bearded man named Ronald, who enjoys either bass fishing or playing the bass (we may never know). “Waterboarding is far from torture,” explained an army pilot named Benjamin, all helpfulness. “I wouldn’t mind giving you two a demonstration.”

The patriots go on, and on and on. They cannot believe what they are reading. They are rushing to the defence of not just Kyle, but their country, what their country means. They call for the rape or death of anyone ungrateful enough to criticise American hero Chris Kyle. Because Chris Kyle is good, and brown people are bad, and America is in danger, and Chris Kyle saved us. The attitude echoes what Miller articulated about Kyle in her Salon piece: “his steadfast imperviousness to any nuance, subtlety or ambiguity, and his lack of imagination and curiosity, seem particularly notable”.

There is no room for the idea that Kyle might have been a good soldier but a bad guy; or a mediocre guy doing a difficult job badly; or a complex guy in a bad war who convinced himself he loved killing to cope with an impossible situation; or a straight-up serial killer exploiting an oppressive system that, yes, also employs lots of well-meaning, often impoverished, non-serial-killer people to do oppressive things over which they have no control. Or that Iraqis might be fully realised human beings with complex inner lives who find joy in food and sunshine and family, and anguish in the murders of their children. Or that you can support your country while thinking critically about its actions and its citizenry. Or that many truths can be true at once.

Always meet your heroes.

The real American Sniper was a hate-filled killer. Why are simplistic patriots treating him as a...

Lindy West: Clint Eastwood’s film about Navy Seal Chris Kyle has hit a raw nerve in America, with right wingers calling for the rape or death of anyone ungrateful enough to criticise his actions

Response by SPC David S. made Jan 9 at 2015 10:42 PM

SPC David S. — Fri, 09 Jan 2015 22:42:14 -0500

It appears that the intention of the of the authors was to make Chris look like a psychopath. Certainly 255 kills you need to be somewhat indifferent when looking through a scope and pulling the trigger. However it is also so easy to talk about people that are no longer around while never walking in their shoes. I wonder if the author would have said what they said if Chris was still around.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 9 at 2015 11:03 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 09 Jan 2015 23:03:53 -0500

Interesting that this article laments that Chris Kyle saw his job as good versus an evil and was published on January 6th, then Paris happened on January 7th. The author needs to awake to the fact that there is black and white in this world... maybe not everything is black and white, but some things are -- like Al Qaida being evil and shooting them being both necessary and good.

Response by LTC Jason Mackay made Jan 9 at 2015 11:34 PM

LTC Jason Mackay — Fri, 09 Jan 2015 23:34:34 -0500

Have note seen the film or read the book. I remember similar negative reviews of Lone Survivor. I have to discount some of this article. Google Lindy West. You can tell that this person would disagree with about anything Chris Kyle would espouse or stand for.

Response by Capt Richard I P. made Jan 10 at 2015 12:51 AM

Capt Richard I P. — Sat, 10 Jan 2015 00:51:20 -0500

With hundreds of kills the odds are in favor of him being some sort of sociopath/natural killer. I mean that in the best way possible we need natural killers we can work with.
http://tacticalshit.com/natural-killers-turning-tide-battle/
That doesn't make it ok to deride or mock the man.

Response by CW2 Joseph Evans made Jan 10 at 2015 2:51 AM

CW2 Joseph Evans — Sat, 10 Jan 2015 02:51:36 -0500

I would probably have to say that Chris Kyle, like all Service Members, is a product of his upbringing, culture, and circumstance. Hardly perfect, but not the demon some try to make him out to be. Regardless of his opinion, or lack thereof, of the people on the receiving end of his attention, he has been known for good deeds and volunteer work among veterans. He has used his fame/infamy successfully for many very good causes.
Was it atonement? If so, is he the sociopath/psychopath that his detractors claim? He was a man that had a job, a job he did very well.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 10 at 2015 3:01 AM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 10 Jan 2015 03:01:12 -0500

Well let's see the only source cited is a Salon article (we all know how reliable those are, They're on the Internet: Absolute truth in every sentence), a few cherry picked words and phrases from Kyle's book, and a lot of purple Kool-Aid.

Yeah, I think I'll file this with that story about how Bush engineered the 9/11 attacks.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 10 at 2015 5:23 AM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 10 Jan 2015 05:23:48 -0500

"Much of the US right wing appears to have seized upon American Sniper with similarly shallow comprehension – treating it with the same unconsidered, rah-rah reverence that they would the national anthem or the flag itself."

That statement alone pretty much tells me where the authors head is. I have a different opinion so I will leave it at that.

“We sleep safely at night because rough men stand ready to visit violence on those who would harm us.”
― Winston S. Churchill

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 10 at 2015 9:28 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 10 Jan 2015 09:28:56 -0500

This Guardian is a failing liberal rag. Of course it would try to diminish American Exceptionalism as has this president and liberals in this country.

The characterization of Kyle, sees him in only black and white terms and suggests that Flag-waving is a bad thing. The leftwing Lunatic fringe sees everything in terms of usurping white people and this article is more of the same kind of rhetoric.

We are one country and this does not mean being dismissive of a common cause of Patriotism. And I am not suggesting saying that all Muslims or even most of them are bad because clearly that is not true. But when I see the left acquiesce even once to some of the ideas of conservatives, then I remain dubious of the source.

The uncoded terms 'flag-waving' and 'American Exceptionalism Myth' are revealing. So let's break that term down so we understand where people who use these terms are coming from. First, that everyone who waves a flag or recites the 'Pledge of Allegiance' (except Mexico's) is a racist. If you go to any VA Hospital, stop and listen. You will hear the same basic commentary about military life and LOVE OF COUNTRY. You hear about Patriotism, flags and American greatness and this is coming from Black, White and every other skin tone.

We learn to surmount the ideologues and we know right from wrong. We (Military) are probably the best evidence of a melting pot in the entire world. There are quite a few more conservatives today since the Terrorist attacks in France and they are not unaware of the culture that promotes ISIS and Taliban types. And they are not saying it is all our fault.

I find the piece just another example of a politically correct diatribe that denounces flags, patriotism and exceptionalism. It is blatantly political dogma that will get more people killed.

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 10 at 2015 10:23 AM

CW5 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 10 Jan 2015 10:23:06 -0500

I'd call that typical leftist (analyze-it-till-it-glows) propaganda, MAJ Bryan Zeski. I agree with some aspects of the criticism of the criticism of Chris Kyle. I haven't seen the movie or read the book, but it's folks like Chris Kyle who fought for Lindy West's right to write this drivel.

If he's such a bad guy, and our military is so evil, and this is such a bad country, etc., then why do you stay? I'll tell you why. Because you can write this garbage and only be criticized for it in this country. If you were in another country, say Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, and you criticized Islam or their "martyrs," those nut jobs you are so quick to defend might decide that you, a woman, are not entitled to an opinion.

This seems so obvious. Heck, we just saw it happen in France this week. Hello? Anybody home?

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 11 at 2015 1:29 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 11 Jan 2015 13:29:34 -0500

Here's an article that I think would be better suited to starting a discussion about Chris Kyle. By the way, I still don't agree with everything in this article, but I do agree with this statement about Kyle's world view, that I quote from the article "They are the bad guys who deserve to die. It’s that simple."

https://medium.com/war-is-boring/american-sniper-fashions-a-new-american-mythology-9b3b0ce094e1

‘American Sniper’ Aims for a New American Myth — War Is Boring

Clint Eastwood and Bradley Cooper deliver a stellar movie about a complicated war … and man

Response by SFC Mark Bailey made Jan 16 at 2015 6:25 PM

SFC Mark Bailey — Fri, 16 Jan 2015 18:25:07 -0500

She is a liberal media reporter without the benefit of a shred of common sense or an understanding of what it is like to be shot at and to see your buddies dodging incoming fire.

Therefore her words are meaningless, her thoughts are not worthy of any merit, and the article itself a terrible waste of ink and paper better used afterwards in the portajohn...

Response by Cpl Aaron Nelson made Jan 16 at 2015 8:12 PM

Cpl Aaron Nelson — Fri, 16 Jan 2015 20:12:10 -0500

I want to see the movie. Chris Kyle is my hero along with every other combat vet who still fights their demons long after their tour is over.

The way the liberal left has begun to demonize "Patriots" and anyone who still appreciates and hold dear traditional American values and ideas has become troubling. As if patriotism has become a loathsome mental disorder in need of eradication. It pisses me off to tell the truth.

I believe the free thinkers are indeed free of thought.

Response by 1SG Cameron M. Wesson made Jan 17 at 2015 6:49 PM

1SG Cameron M. Wesson — Sat, 17 Jan 2015 18:49:03 -0500

my 2 cents.

The man did an incredible hard job. Don't believe me? Ask any guys that spend time in a Sniper Section or as a Designated Marksman (DM) in a platoon or section. Just my time in the scout platoon in 3-327th was challenging and I never had to "squeeze off" a round except during a NEO EDRE in 88.

Like many of us... I'd submitted we are neither good, nor bad... but somewhere in the middle. Where in the middle? That will be determined on judgement day. We are shaped by our parents, the environment that we live... and die, and challenges we find ourselves. He is hardly the creature some say he is IMO... he was a man that had to accomplish a very difficult task... like many of us... and many Americans went home vertically instead of horizontally because he did his job.

Coupled with that fact, there is no way people can say he did no good... the records show he did. Why you ask? That is between him and the maker... not me... and he is not here to ask and defend himself.

With that said... leave him alone.

Response by SPC(P) Jay Heenan made Jan 17 at 2015 10:22 PM

SPC(P) Jay Heenan — Sat, 17 Jan 2015 22:22:21 -0500

I suppose you have to do a little research (crazy right? I can't just believe everything I read on the internet?) when reading articles and take into account the bias that the author is leaning. I don't know if we actually have true 'non-biased' reporting anymore. "...mindlessly succumbing to patriotic propaganda..."? We have been a nation at war for a very long time and the powers to be (in Hollywood anyway) will pick and choose who they deem worthy of classifying a hero and making a movie about them. This piece is full of irresponsible journalism which saddens me, they even managed to try to turn him into a racist as you can see by the below quote.
"...Because Chris Kyle is good, and brown people are bad, and America is in danger, and Chris Kyle saved us."
and this one...
"... intentionally or not, makes a hero out of Kyle – who, bare minimum, was a racist who took pleasure in dehumanising and killing brown people..."

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Jan 18 at 2015 8:27 PM

SSG (ret) William Martin — Sun, 18 Jan 2015 20:27:34 -0500

People are forgetting that Chris Kyle was a human being. He did not ask to be a hero or if someone thought that, what in the hell were they thinking or what type of platform was Kyle placed on, no hate, no depression, just no problems at all? He did a job and while others may have done the same job, he excelled at his job. I haven't watched the movie yet, but I do have it. I know that Kyle couldn't have been a nice guy 24/7 like some would love to think. He was just like everything other service member who wanted to complete their job and get home and once they came home, some of us had problems.

Response by CW5 Jim Steddum made Jan 19 at 2015 6:05 PM

CW5 Jim Steddum — Mon, 19 Jan 2015 18:05:39 -0500

http://www.navy.mil/ah_online/ftrStory.asp?issue=3&id=85211

Bradley Cooper Message to Service Members

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 21 at 2015 9:04 AM

CW5 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 21 Jan 2015 09:04:07 -0500

Here's a good counter-point article to answer the liberal haters of Chris Kyle:

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/396768/kyle-derangement-syndrome-ian-tuttle

Kyle Derangement Syndrome

The Navy SEAL’s lickspittle critics sink to new lows with their bad faith, vitriol, and outright deception.

Response by PO2 Kevin LaCroix made Jan 21 at 2015 9:16 AM

PO2 Kevin LaCroix — Wed, 21 Jan 2015 09:16:19 -0500

I am not a sniper, nor have I ever aspired to be one. That said, I believe that to do a job like seals, ranger, Scout/sniper, on must believe without doubt that what they are doing is right. I believe that, as another post stated, doubt is death.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 5 at 2015 10:54 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 05 Feb 2015 10:54:30 -0500

Major, objectivity is relative.

As for the author... It's easy to attack someone who can't defend themselves. It's also easy to take comments made by an individual and take them out of context, again, when that person cannot defend themselves.

Imagine the moral courage it took to denigrate one who could not defend himself! It's absolutely harrowing!

Response by SSgt Thomas L. made Feb 21 at 2015 6:14 AM

SSgt Thomas L. — Sat, 21 Feb 2015 06:14:11 -0500

No person should be beyond reproach. Every person is an individual with their own complex motivations; making their own mistakes, holding their own illusions and committing their own sins. Kyle was a hero to those troops whose lives his saved and was no doubt a consummate professional and talented at what he did. That being said, his life is now a story that lives in the public imagination, and we should expect that story to be dissected and critiqued. Add to that the fact that he himself was the one who placed himself in the public eye, and it becomes obvious that there are going to be people who attempt to knock him from his pedestal, as is the American way. West's article was biased, to be sure, but it was also thoughtful and makes some solid points. If you're so set in your ways that you can't learn from an opinion that doesn't jibe with your world view, how can you meaningfully contribute to the conversation?

Response by SGT James Elphick made Mar 3 at 2015 7:00 PM

SGT James Elphick — Tue, 03 Mar 2015 19:00:19 -0500

I think the real problem is that Chris Kyle's "story" is just that, a story. Obviously there is a great deal of supporting evidence to what he did but there also seems to be too much that is made up. Unfortunately I saw in my time in the military people receive awards that were not earned (up to and including a Silver Star) and I have read some of his other stories and they just do not add up. These 2 came over the wire from military.com http://www.military.com/special-operations/two-chris-kyle-stories-you-wont-see-in-american-sniper.html#.VNqcv7WGV8Y.facebook and I just can't buy that a single Navy SEAL was needed to save large groups of Marines. I find it even harder to believe that Marines left their wounded behind, twice, for said Navy SEAL to recover. Also, his stories about shooting 2 car-jackers, or killing looters in New Orleans do not add up and he was found guilty of lying in his book about punching Jesse Ventura.

Two Chris Kyle Stories You Won't See in 'American Sniper'

"American Sniper," based on former Navy SEAL Chris Kyle's book of the same name, omits two incredible episodes from Chris's life.

Response by SSG Kevin McCulley made May 26 at 2015 7:12 PM

SSG Kevin McCulley — Tue, 26 May 2015 19:12:25 -0400

I think, like most things in this country, the swell of support was less about Kyle and the movie and more about resisting liberals and thumbing them in the eye. Everyone despises them and wants to dish back what they've been giving.

Response by SrA Matthew Knight made May 26 at 2015 8:35 PM

SrA Matthew Knight — Tue, 26 May 2015 20:35:10 -0400

The movie could be viewed as propaganda, sure. Chris Kyle himself was a hero though. God only knows the amount of lives he saved by making the decision on whether or not to pull the trigger. Not only that but after his service he dedicated himself to helping veterans who needed it.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Apr 9 at 2018 12:04 AM

SGM Bill Frazer — Mon, 09 Apr 2018 00:04:15 -0400

It seems to me, the these folks are not patriots, have never been shot at, or in battle where it's just you and them, or where them is damn near everything walking upright. These folks didn't know Kyle and it appears the their rant is just as far left as the apparently accuse the far right of going.

Response by PO2 Vince Walsh made May 21 at 2018 1:44 AM

PO2 Vince Walsh — Mon, 21 May 2018 01:44:30 -0400

It's hard to believe anyone could express such arrogance and ignorance at the same time. Be that as it may, consider this, freedom, in order to be maintained, must be defended. Here's where you're going to have to be brave snowflake, to defend freedom, from time to time tough men have to go to bad places and do bad things. You may not want these fellers at your candyass Greenwich village cocktail party, but you had best thank GOD that they're out there.

Response by PO3 Grant Skiles made May 21 at 2018 7:00 AM

PO3 Grant Skiles — Mon, 21 May 2018 07:00:21 -0400

I have lived through Carter, Regan,Nixon, Ford, Clinton, both Bushes, Obama and now President Trump. I was too young to remember Kennedy. We have only had four times in my life time where being an American and being proud that really shown through the nation. First was Kennedy and his stare down to Russia, second was Regan and how our economy and buy American products was VERY high. We totally supported him and many individuals prospered. The greatest time for being a Patriot was after 9/11. What happened that day will not be forgotten by many and it still receives a major reaction. Unfortunately we are down playing those events today. Finally President Trump. Love him or hate him he has made America strong in the eyes of the world again. The leaders of other countries know that they are not going to walk over us nor will we support anything from the UN without it benefiting the Unitesd States only. I am proud to be a Veteran. It took my 20 years totally understand how special all Veterans are and the strength that we have for each other. Being Patriotic is exactly what this country needs to really pull us together. Too many people do not know what it is like to live in other countries. If we do not love ourselves, God and country we will disolve.