Centralized Promotion Boards Promoting the best and brightest or only those that know the system?

2014-04-12T09:11:49-04:00

Shouldn't there be a human factor involved in promoting our Senior Level NCO's or are you just comfortable pushing forward a bunch of paper NCO's that have figured out how to work the system?

Response by SSG Daniel Deiler made Apr 12 at 2014 9:15 AM

2014-04-12T09:15:17-04:00

Seen far too many NCO's promoted that know how to fill their ERB's and hide their shortfalls/mis-steps while passing on those that have the experience and the trust from their subordinates. Promotions are not leadership based but education based. Show me an NCO's ERB that's filled and I'll show you an NCO that has NO clue as to how to use the education that's been given to them. If you don't use it you lose it. I'll take tactical knowledge all day vs. institutional knowledge.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 5 at 2014 11:45 AM

2014-05-05T11:45:35-04:00

SSG Deiler,

I understand what you are saying in your response. However I believe your response is shortsighted. I think the problem is more with the rating system. Current NCOERs are unable to capture the good and the bad as bullets do not allow context. The ratings, particularly for Senior NCO’s and probably even SSG’s need to be narrative in format to allow communication of more information and context.
Many NCO's have both institutional knowledge and Tactical knowledge and ability and most of those who have both are more competent and well rounded then their peers. The need for a Soldier to have both sides of the coin is considerably less in the Junior NCO ranks (even somewhat at SFC). It is much more vital at the MSG and SGM levels.
If a Soldier is seeking promotion to the Senior NCO ranks it is expected they seek personal and professional schooling. It is also their responsibility to ensure their ERB’s are “filled” out (if you mean accurately completed with all relevant information). It is also likely their ERB’s will be “filled” out if you mean they completed the appropriate professional schools…etc if they have been in the Army the length of time the DA Pam states is the norm for Senior NCO’s.
I routinely review Junior NCO’s, who are seeking promotion, ERB’s and see glaring errors, inaccuracies and omissions. It is the Soldiers job and responsibility to look out for themselves. I am not saying their superiors should not help them with it, however I am saying that no one cares about your career like you do.
I agree paper NCO’s exist and get promoted. I also know extremely competent outstanding leaders who do not get picked up for promotion. Out of the second category, most of the competent and outstanding NCO’s fail to ensure their accomplishments and results are captured appropriately.

How much worse do you think the system would be if senior NCO’s were selected at the BDE, Division, or Corp level’s? It would become more of who you know for promotion.

Response by Sgt Joshua Ray made May 5 at 2014 9:01 PM

2014-05-05T21:01:32-04:00

No offense but isn't paper work the only real proof that these NCO's you speak of have to show what they have done, thus proving their worth to be promoted?

Response by SGM Matthew Quick made May 5 at 2014 9:29 PM

2014-05-05T21:29:02-04:00

Did you recently get passed over for promotion?

How exactly does a 'Paper NCO' work the system?

The Army's centralized promotion board system is an accurate system, for the most part.

My question to you would be, why can YOU accurately update YOUR records? I would see this as a failure on YOUR part and possibly on your Soldiers, too.

Response by MSG Sean Milhauser made May 13 at 2014 11:29 PM

2014-05-13T23:29:09-04:00

I will agree with your assertion, most NCOs don't know what a good NCOER looks like. This is an area where CSMs and 1SGs should mentor their NCOs. I am among those that learned only after several NCOERs later what a really effective NCOER looks like.

That being said, however, we have to accept the reality that the Army is getting smaller, and as a result, promotions are now, and will continue to be more competitive. Just simply "knowing your job" is not enough anymore. Civilian education, certifications, boards, and military schools, to name a few, are the "discriminators" that board members look for to determine who is near the top of the selectees and who is middle of the pack.

There are a great number of Soldiers and NCOs in our Army that do a great job, at their daily job. And that is good. But they have mediocre ASVAB scores, little or no civilian education, and few correspondence course hours. When the time comes for a board to select a SSG for SFC, will they pick that NCO, if there's only one last number? Or will they pick the one that has done something every year in addition to their job that shows the Army and the promotion boards they are working to progress to that next level? At the end of the day, the paper is all the board has to look at.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 20 at 2014 3:13 PM

2014-08-20T15:13:24-04:00

I'll have to agree with SSG Deiler. By the way, the only responders to this discussion other than a SSG and a SGT are E7s and above. I say this because obviously you've made the cut and you're ok how the system works because you've figured it out. Don't make this an arguement and help us figure it out so that we can make it to the next level. I was DA selected as a young E6 to be a recruiter and I took the challenge and acquired the highest recruiting award. Yet because I spoke my mind with honesty and respect to that leadership my NCOERs was based on a personal level not performance. Everyone always try yo find a way to argue and offer their point of view, why not offer a solution instead. Good discussion by SSG Deiler and thanks for your pointers. I will continue my college education and ask to attend Jumpmaster school not just attend but to also conduct my duties as a jumpmaster.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 28 at 2014 7:49 AM

2014-11-28T07:49:57-05:00

That's a great question....I am not sure I know the answer, but one possible solution would be to adopt something like the Marines do with their centralized boards...they have someone actually present each individual up for promotion. That person is supposed to study each Marine going before the board and answer questions, if need be. Might be a way to be see the individual for the board members, rather than just a picture, ERB/ORB and OMPF. Only down size would be the size of the boards....LT to CPT and SSG to SFC might be too large.

Response by SGM Omer Dalton made Jun 8 at 2020 11:02 AM

2020-06-08T11:02:28-04:00

Short answer, a little of both. As a senior enlisted I often wonder how in the hell did an get promoted. Saw some I felt should get promoted left behind.

Response by SGM Omer Dalton made Jun 8 at 2020 11:28 AM

2020-06-08T11:28:36-04:00

The central promotion system is not perfect but it works. I feel to much emphasis is placed on paper gates rather than experience What good is an over educated person that just does an average job? More emphasis should be placed
on NCOERs and combination of assignments to determine promotions. Even the NCOER system is not perfect and often inflated. Some are promoted too fast and while other deserving soldiers are not. Hell I knew the system and worked it. I was selected for promotion to sergeant major with a little over 16 years of service. Good for me, but in after thought it was way too fast and I had a lot of catching up to do to perform at that level.