Cannot become an officer or warrant officer because of tattoos: What do you think?

2015-03-29T23:59:40-04:00

I think along with many other think this tattoo policy needs to go away. I am barred from becoming a warrant officer because i have a sleeve tattoo. Seriously? I think this is complete bs. I have my pilots license on the civilian side i have passed all my Army pre reqs. So why can't i become a warrant offer? Because i have a tattoo and thats bs many great soldiers and potential great leaders are being screwed out of advancing to the top. Wjat do you guys think?

Response by COL Charles Williams made Mar 30 at 2015 12:41 AM

2015-03-30T00:41:57-04:00

Not BS in my book; it is/was the standard. When I was growing up and Officer, the rule (unwritten) was Tattoos were OK, so long as you can't see them in the Class B. That said, I believe, based on the current nature of tattoos, that the Army needs (and they are) to reconsider the changes and policies on tattoos in 670-1. My redlines are face, neck and hands. But, I am not the CSA or SMA. Good luck!

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 30 at 2015 12:47 AM

2015-03-30T00:47:27-04:00

This should work for you, if you were grandfathered

Enlisted Soldiers who have tattoos that were compliant with previous tattoo policies (grandfathered tattoos) may request commissioning or appointment. Commanders should continue to evaluate potential applicants on the “whole Soldier” concept in making appropriate recommendations. Soldiers, who have unauthorized tattoos that were not in compliance with previous policies, are not grandfathered. Grandfathering applies to Army enlisted applying for officer accession or appointment. Sister Service applicants are not eligible for grandfathering.

ANY AD APPLICANTS REQUIRING AN EXCEPTION TO POLICY FOR TATTOOS will submit a Tattoo Waiver Request with their packet submission when applying for the Warrant Officer Program. The Tattoo Waiver Request Form is located under the downloads tab. Additionally, ALL AD APPLICANTS WILL BE REQUIRED to submit the new Statement of Understanding (with the tattoo policy paragraph) with their packet. If you need further guidance or have additional questions, please contact your regional WO recruiting team via email at: http://www.usarec.army.mil/hq/warrant/WOassistance.shtml

U.S. Army Recruiting Command's Warrant Officer Recruiting Information Site

Response by SFC Collin McMillion made Mar 30 at 2015 12:55 AM

2015-03-30T00:55:59-04:00

I've got a few stronger words for it, but can't use them on RP.

Response by PO3 John Jeter made Mar 30 at 2015 12:58 AM

2015-03-30T00:58:27-04:00

The difficulty with a 'tat' policy comes with a variation of the "One man's trash is another mans treasure" type philosophy. In this case it becomes "One mans art becomes another mans pornography". It's not that someone will perceive your tattoo as obscene, I would imagine it's acceptable enough if you say so. But if they allow yours, how then can they deny someone who has a truly objectionable tattoo but claims it is "art"? I may be mistaken here and feel free to correct me if I am, but I seem to recall that "discrete" tattoos for officers have been accepted but were frowned upon, while obvious tattoos (other than cosmetic) were a big no-no. I feel for you and I agree that it's an unfair block for a purely cosmetic reason.
That being said, consider this; How much time, manpower, and resources would be needed to research, develop, gain approval for and institute a policy that would allow the consideration, review, and approval or disapproval of each applicants tattoos. Combine that with the current downsizing of the military and the budgets and I believe the writing is on the wall. It would be a huge can of worms and you would have a difficult time proving the worth of the effort to the powers that be...... I wish you luck though!

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Mar 30 at 2015 8:13 AM

2015-03-30T08:13:07-04:00

Do visible tattoos present a Professional Military Appearance? That is the policy question. It's not about capability. It's never been about capability. It's about image.

I like tattoos. Have them. But I can't disagree with the policy, as it is.

An Officer (whether Commissioned, Warrant, or Non-Commissioned) is not just a leader, but also a Representative of the US Government, and has Powers invested in them. As such, image is more important than we like to believe.

Response by PFC Mike Mcdermott made Mar 30 at 2015 9:03 AM

2015-03-30T09:03:02-04:00

Sure it's bs. What did you expect?

Response by SPC Derrell Beck made Mar 30 at 2015 9:19 AM

2015-03-30T09:19:58-04:00

Yes it is a standard and policy...but really tho it's 2015. I am pretty much covered in art work and I am proud of all my ink. I am a 100% professional. Does artwork change my character?...no. Does artwork change my personality?...no. Eventually when out generation are the ones leading things will change and they will have something else to debate. For now fight it and try to get a waiver. Sorry for your troubles my brother

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 30 at 2015 9:27 AM

2015-03-30T09:27:46-04:00

The tattoo policy really needs to go away!!! As if nobody has noticed but like at least 90% of military members are tattooed! Yes I agree with some of the reg stating what is except able as far as not to offend a race or religion but to say that you can have a job because of having tattoos is ridiculous!!!!

Response by SPC David S. made Mar 30 at 2015 9:33 AM

2015-03-30T09:33:33-04:00

I know as a Cadet at the Air Force Academy you would lose your appointment if you got some ink while a Cadet. However there were prior service guys there that had tats before receiving their appointments and were giving waivers. Seemed like a double standard to me. Also these days I think you can get them removed fairly easy. I don't see the correlation between tats and being a poor leader. At a junior level it might help establish a common bond with the troops and at a senior lever I've never seen a a 3 star shirtless at a senate hearing. Personally I'd rather see a 3 star with some bullet holes and some ink. That guy has been places and seen a thing or two.

Response by SGT William Howell made Mar 30 at 2015 12:47 PM

2015-03-30T12:47:01-04:00

At some point people need to be responsible for their life decisions. I have tattoos. Hell my whole back is one big tattoo. You can't see it and there is a reason for that.

If you are going to get your face tattooed expect to have some doors closed to you. Make your statement, ink yourself up, show the world you are a bad boy, just be prepared down the road to ask if the people without visible tattoos if they, "want fries with that".

Response by MSG Scott McBride made Mar 31 at 2015 12:03 AM

2015-03-31T00:03:31-04:00

I think it's ridiculous.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 31 at 2015 12:21 AM

2015-03-31T00:21:53-04:00

I think it is BS. I do believe though neck hand tattoos should be banned. If you can cover it with uniform items you should be fine. With the rate of tattooing in today's society they are going to really limit maybe even hurt for qualified competent individuals.

Response by CSM Michael J. Uhlig made Apr 1 at 2015 1:55 AM

2015-04-01T01:55:06-04:00

SGT Private RallyPoint Member, was the opportunity available to you before? If so, why did you wait until you were no longer qualified?

My son in law, recently told us he wants to join and deploy and fight to defend our country but unfortunately now he is unqualified they want to step forward to volunteer because of his tats. I looked him in the eyeballs and asked him if he wanted me to rename him Pinocchio. I often see Soldier (and people in general) not act on opportunities until it is too late and then sit back and complain.

Good thing for you is that we have a common sense SMA that is going to take this issue on. Also take a look at what 1SG Private RallyPoint Member provided, does that get after the root issue for you?

Response by PO1 James Booker made Apr 1 at 2015 1:40 PM

2015-04-01T13:40:36-04:00

I've said for decades that tats were a bad decision.

IF you want to fly, you will have to get out and go the civilian route. I'm a pilot, I know a lot of "people" in the biz. I'll tell you for CERTAIN that some airlines...even though they may have no strict written policy...will turn you down due to a lot of ink. All it takes is one interviewer/check ride with bias to professionalism and it's all over. You can be another Bob Hoover...but you won't be sitting in the pointy end of their aircraft and accepting thanks for a nice landing after a rough flight. Fact...not fiction

IF they REALLY wanted, or needed you...they would FIND a way to get you in. I don't know you, I don't know your record, and I don't know the current staffing needs of the Army...but they WILL bend/stretch/break "rules" to get what they want or need very badly.

Hell...just look at a lot of military members PT level nowdays. I still shoot on active and reserve bases all over the country and am amazed at the rather "rotund" nature of many in uniform I see. They obviously make exceptions to the rules...or they'd never meet retention goals I suspect.

So now you're standing at a crossroads. You're NOT going to be accepted by the military aviation community so you either get out or move on.

Looking back is wasted effort...

If you're staying in...keep gaining hours. Don't know if you're IFR, but get it now. Hours, hours, hours. Even if it's jumping in a 172 for a few circuits. Every little bit helps. Find a good instructor who will work with you. Offer to fly for him for free(I did a few "free" recovery hops for an FBO once) or as an observer for them while THEY practice up. Don't let this knock you off the horse!

Response by AN Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 18 at 2015 12:39 PM

2015-04-18T12:39:36-04:00

It's all a game about looks when you get past certain rank. I think it's bs because tattoos arent detrimental. I can see why it would be a problem for your well being because you're more easily identified if you have them but for the most part your arms are covered by sleeves anyways...

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 10 at 2015 6:57 PM

2015-08-10T18:57:16-04:00

SGT Brandon Moren,

I wouldn t worry about the sleeves. I have 15 tattoos and fly as a corporate pilot. If I can fly 15 million dollar jets, you should be ok...I wouldn t worry about it.

I agree that this is BS, and you should be good to go because the new SMA rescinded the current standing tattoo policy.

Just a word of caution-having your PPL doesnt mean squat. It just shows you have an aptitude for learning how to fly. You know just enough to be dangerous....try and be a sponge when you go to Army flight training and learn how they want you to learn.

That s part of the reason I won t do it-I don t want to be teaching classes because I am a CFI, and I already know there are a few things that are so set in stone for me on the fixed wing side it may not bode well in the Army.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 15 at 2015 3:27 PM

2015-12-15T15:27:15-05:00

IMHO, as long as they are not on your face, neck or hands, tattoos should not be an issue. I have several, fortunately I had the foresight to make sure they are in places where they are covered by a T-shirt (one on each shoulder/upper arm and one on the chest.)

Response by SFC Pete Kain made Dec 15 at 2015 3:30 PM

2015-12-15T15:30:48-05:00

Times and standards change, you got caught up in one.

Did you seriously think that getting inked would become a thing for the Military. Life choices deal with it.

Response by SFC Pete Kain made Dec 18 at 2015 5:49 PM

2015-12-18T17:49:13-05:00

Bottom line, it's policy. So ask yourself what is more important your tats or your career?
There are places to go and have them removed. Whining about it here will not change the Regs.

Response by CW4 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 9 at 2016 6:40 AM

2016-03-09T06:40:54-05:00

I think it places one's judgment into question. Tattoos are pointless. When expressing yourself takes higher priority than maintaining professionalism, these are the consequences. Even if the tattoo is to honor a family member or fallen comrade, there are other ways to honor these people.

Response by TSgt Tommy Amparano made Mar 6 at 2017 11:16 AM

2017-03-06T11:16:04-05:00

I don't care about tattoos as long as you do your job. Unless they are racists tattoos then forget it. Oh and I have no problem with the confed battle flags either. It think it is silly to have a losing flag on you but that is another discussion.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 6 at 2017 11:33 AM

2017-03-06T11:33:46-05:00

Keep them off your face. Just my opinion. Nothing hateful at all and nothing nude visible when in uniform. I've seen eagle spread girls on guys arms.

Response by CW4 Anthony Carbo made Mar 6 at 2017 12:40 PM

2017-03-06T12:40:23-05:00

I GOT A TAT WHILE GOING THROUGH JUMP SCHOOL, MADE SSG, THEN WARRANT NO ISSUE BACK THEN 1980

Response by SPC Justin Foster made Mar 6 at 2017 2:29 PM

2017-03-06T14:29:47-05:00

This rule is idiotic, plain and simple. Rules for the sake of rules are nothing but limitations on the strength of the military. Someone can have a tattoo and be an excellent leader/pilot/anything. However, let's not allow them to reach their full potential because they have a tattoo.. makes sense if you don't think about it!

Response by LCpl Carlos Morciego made Mar 6 at 2017 6:42 PM

2017-03-06T18:42:12-05:00

Honestly!...It boils down to one simple thing. What matters to you more there hardcore? Your tatts.....or your commision? If it's the latter, then get rid of the tatts. I know tatts are our badges of honour, but a commission is better. Semper Fi.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 9 at 2017 12:31 PM

2017-07-09T12:31:06-04:00

Didn't they just lift it where the tattoo has to be covered for the officers and warrants, can't be revealing.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 9 at 2017 12:32 PM

2017-07-09T12:32:26-04:00

I Know for enlisted you can get sleeves of tattoos but nothing above the shoulders

Response by LTJG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 26 at 2017 12:01 PM

2017-07-26T12:01:02-04:00

This must be an Army policy because half of the LDOs and CWOs in the Wardroom have ink. Yes, even visible below the sleeve tattoos (including myself). The Navy has no such policy on tattoos and commissioning programs.

Response by SGT Gary DeFelippo made Jul 26 at 2017 12:50 PM

2017-07-26T12:50:08-04:00

Don't get visible tats, you knew the policy but wanted to be a rebel

Response by TSgt Dutch Van Zomeren made Jul 26 at 2017 6:45 PM

2017-07-26T18:45:43-04:00

Agree

Response by MSG Johnathan Mathes made Jul 28 at 2017 1:27 PM

2017-07-28T13:27:12-04:00

To be honest... if you really want to go.. get a waiver... get it removed.. ... but stop blaming army policy... where there is a will there is a legal way... how bad do you want it...?

Response by PFC David McLeod made Jul 28 at 2017 1:41 PM

2017-07-28T13:41:21-04:00

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes!
Or dumb down the standards so anyone can play.
I for one think my army should have the highest standards possibe. But that's just the opinion of one old soldier who still thinks the mission of the army is to defend against all enemies both foreign and domestic. Social justice (tattooed freaks) look at me, I'm more important than the mission types being just one of many domestic ones.

Response by LTJG C Mader made Jul 28 at 2017 2:39 PM

2017-07-28T14:39:15-04:00

I received a recruit at RTC that had a face tattoo like Mike Tyson that was okay because he had a waiver if they're going to let that fly I think it is b******* that you can't get wo because of a tattoo unless the tattoo is anti America or on your face

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 28 at 2017 2:39 PM

2017-07-28T14:39:44-04:00

I do think we loose a lot of great candidates due rob the policies that govern our military. That being said, this is a volunteer force, if you don't meet the standards, find a new line of work. Maybe you can get hired on by a different organization that allows the tattoos.

Response by CPL Kenneth Norris made Jul 28 at 2017 2:48 PM

2017-07-28T14:48:26-04:00

I think you should worry more about English Composition and effective communications more than your tattoos.

I wouldn't allow you to become an officer, either, based soley on your inability to communicate on a level that suggests you actually are educated.

Response by SFC Robert White made Jul 28 at 2017 2:50 PM

2017-07-28T14:50:46-04:00

wow where are all the liberals and progessives fighting to get this policy and standard in the military changed? yep don't hear or see a one of them

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 28 at 2017 7:13 PM

2017-07-28T19:13:44-04:00

I don't agree... But if you don't like it just use those skills elsewhere...

Response by PO2 Tony Barbour made Jul 28 at 2017 7:28 PM

2017-07-28T19:28:01-04:00

I have a tattoo on my shoulder blade, my ears have been pierced, I had a pony tail for many years, and feel an officer should be a cut above everyone else. Want to go officer? Get the tats removed...

Response by MSgt Eric Roseberry made Jul 28 at 2017 8:47 PM

2017-07-28T20:47:52-04:00

There is a reg. Don't like the reg take it up with your chain... Good luck with that

Response by SPC Nicholas Bettinger made Jul 28 at 2017 9:37 PM

2017-07-28T21:37:23-04:00

Tattoo policy and the stash policy has to go & bring back Sp5 -- Sp7 cause not everyone is cut out to be An NCO!

Response by SPC Nicholas Bettinger made Jul 28 at 2017 9:37 PM

2017-07-28T21:37:33-04:00

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 28 at 2017 10:03 PM

2017-07-28T22:03:47-04:00

Get the tat removed

Response by SPC(P) Samuel T. made Jul 28 at 2017 10:44 PM

2017-07-28T22:44:09-04:00

Can you ask for a waiver.

Response by MSgt Roger Settlemyer made Jul 28 at 2017 11:04 PM

2017-07-28T23:04:45-04:00

Think About It: Nobody forced you to have A Tattoo, It was your choice so live with your decision. Some Tattoo can be taken off at great pain that an option. Leaders Lead by Example.

Response by Sgt Mike Sanderson made Jul 28 at 2017 11:25 PM

2017-07-28T23:25:48-04:00

Is it your tatoos, or your whining, that keep you from becoming a WO? Consequences of your actions.

Response by CSM Charles Hayden made Jul 28 at 2017 11:38 PM

2017-07-28T23:38:42-04:00

SGT Private RallyPoint Member I told my sons and now my grandchildren that there is always a price to pay for your actions!

Response by SGT Jim Ramge, MBA made Jul 28 at 2017 11:59 PM

2017-07-28T23:59:15-04:00

In light of the conversation, the times we live in with LGBT now policy, a tattoo policy could use a change... Just saying - what is more professional vice what is more socially acceptable in uniform? Enjoy your new conversation piece with the Army policy makers if you choose the good fight! In other words, don't bitch and moan about it, work to get the policy changed! What if a burn victim chose a sleeve to cover, are they are no longer professional?

Response by SSG Daniel Evans made Jul 29 at 2017 1:28 AM

2017-07-29T01:28:18-04:00

Bullshit, i call it. I was there when they allowed tattoos on the neck. Then started kicking people out for it. Who cares they let the gays in, were going to let the transgendered oh and women in. The army needs to go back to vietnam era standards.

Response by SSG Ken Gilder made Jul 29 at 2017 1:36 AM

2017-07-29T01:36:01-04:00

I think a little common sense needs to be applied. If one has a big swastika on the arm, then "no!" However, a heart with your wife's name, would be OK with me.

Response by MSG Mark Million made Jul 29 at 2017 4:07 AM

2017-07-29T04:07:44-04:00

I like standards, but I would rather not lose a war because we reject capable soldiers based on things such as appearance. Just like the standard on sexual orientation can change, standards like this one can also.

Response by CWO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 29 at 2017 7:03 AM

2017-07-29T07:03:18-04:00

Jump Ship - Coast Guard this is a non-issue

Response by LtCol Matthew Rajkovich made Jul 29 at 2017 7:27 AM

2017-07-29T07:27:58-04:00

Ditto SFC Squires' comments, BUT also consider the following:... There's more to being an officer than following a set checklist of pre reqs. Someone who is ready to be an officer would have taken the personal initiative to pursue and dig up the already existing official info that SFC Squires had to provide to you in this forum. Officers don't simply follow and enforce policies, they are also charged with managing, using, and often creating it. My recommendation is that you take SFC Squires' info and lean forward into becoming an expert on the topic. Demonstrate the professional initiative to tackle things like this and you will show the "whole soldier" concept that they want.

As a side note, I'm not sure what a private pilot license has to do with being an officer. The world is full of civilian pilots with the technical skill to follow check lists...yet they aren't officers. You can be 16 years old and be a pilot. If you want a commission, go get it. That's what we want to see in our leaders. Good luck, Sergeant.

Response by CW4 Steve Knotts made Jul 29 at 2017 7:52 AM

2017-07-29T07:52:24-04:00

We all make decisions in life. Each decision has a consequence. The military experts a certain image from its officers and visible tattoos are not acceptable. I agree with the standard. It has to professional appearance. This is true no matter the profession. A college student may have all As and a great test score but won't get into medical school with an arm full of tattoos. It does not lend itself to professionalism. As a pilot going into an interview with an airline with an armful of tattoos, you will not be hired. You made a decision about your appearance. Certain sectors of society have standards. You no longer meet those standards.

Response by CW5 Ranger Dave made Jul 29 at 2017 8:06 AM

2017-07-29T08:06:13-04:00

My Dad regrets his arms full of tattoos. However in the manly man Army of the 40s through 60s, it did not keep him from making Warrant. But it also taught me to never get a tat that couldn't be covered by a short sleeve shirt. Yeah, I've got my Airborne tattoo.

Response by CWO4 George Scruggs made Jul 29 at 2017 8:44 AM

2017-07-29T08:44:34-04:00

Remove the tat if you really want and are qualified.

Response by MAJ Kevin Miller made Jul 29 at 2017 8:48 AM

2017-07-29T08:48:59-04:00

Which do you want more? Tattoo or Warrant? Laser removal can get rid of Tat. Or you can regret and blame the military. Complaining isn't going to change it. I past the FAST and the physical and sent packet to Rucker. Got declined because I was going to be 30 days past the age limit to start flight school. Wish I would have started the process a few months earlier. I went through OCS back before the college requirement. You want something bad enough you do what you gotta do to achieve what you want.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 29 at 2017 10:01 AM

2017-07-29T10:01:31-04:00

I agree with the policy. If you want tattoos then place them where they are not seen. Period. If you want to become a WO, then have them removed. As a WO, you must be above the standard which includes appearance. No matter where you go whether in the military or civilian world your appearance is a reflection on that organization. Tattoos in the professional world don't cut it. That's just the way it is.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 29 at 2017 10:34 AM

2017-07-29T10:34:32-04:00

Have them removed or quit whining. You chose the art, you have to bear the consequence. The Army long ago decided that officers and senior NCOs needed to "put our best foot forward " and concluded that "circus freak" tattoos on officers weren't in our best image/interest. The self loathing, belly button introspection we've done over this issue in the last fifteen years has less to do with approval of the look and more to do with making end strength numbers.
All of that said, you may won't to find a different recruiter, the standards have changed dramatically in the last two years and unless you really have the circus freak look you may be within the reg.

Response by SPC Robert Walo made Jul 29 at 2017 11:17 AM

2017-07-29T11:17:12-04:00

The tatto ban was Obama's way of dwpleting the officer corp. LEss effective fighting force that way.

Response by SGT Mathew Norman made Jul 29 at 2017 11:19 AM

2017-07-29T11:19:11-04:00

There are waivers, I was working on it before I got out

Response by CW4 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 29 at 2017 11:41 AM

2017-07-29T11:41:58-04:00

As a warrant officer, I am going to say - tough. Here is the deal. We are a professional Army who fight in coalitions of many countries. I am not going to potentially put you in front of foreign officers to brief etc, looking like you just got out of chino. I have ink, plenty of it. All of it is covered while wearing a t shirt. Look man the policy may suck for your personal circumstances. However, it is in place for a reason. You made th choice to get the ink, I am guessing while you were in. The tattoo conversation has been on going for a while. You did it anyway, and now you are pissed? Tell you what fella, why don't you show up for a job interview in corporate america with short sleeves on and see what that lands you. As a guy with 21 years in and pushing that way, your appearance matters. The military doesn't last forever, nor do contracting gigs etc. hell most police departments wouldn't hire you with full sleeves either. There are plenty of awesome gigs in the Army that don't care about your sleeves. Go SF or ranger regt. They would love to have a hard charger and your sleeves won't matter. but to commission- it does. Fucked up part about the policy is once you commission- you could probably get away with it. But most officers don't.

Response by Sgt Michael Cardinale made Jul 29 at 2017 2:18 PM

2017-07-29T14:18:20-04:00

Poor judgement?

Response by MSgt William Germain Jr made Jul 29 at 2017 2:54 PM

2017-07-29T14:54:58-04:00

No one made you get the tatoo.

Response by LCpl Aaron Freeman made Jul 29 at 2017 3:30 PM

2017-07-29T15:30:24-04:00

I was accepted to Annapolis, but was told before I arrive, my tattoos had to be gone... so, I had them removed by laser... In the end, it didn't matter, because I received a medical separation.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 29 at 2017 3:49 PM

2017-07-29T15:49:48-04:00

Its waiverable. I have 4 fellow 11Bs with sleeves who are headed to WOC School next month. All are going rotary wing.

Response by SGT Jesse Sizemore made Jul 29 at 2017 4:55 PM

2017-07-29T16:55:08-04:00

Take it off.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Jul 29 at 2017 5:34 PM

2017-07-29T17:34:47-04:00

You weren't screwed out of anything it was never yours to begin with it was never offered to you it was never an option to you it was the standard before you came in the service it's the standard while you're in the service and you don't meet the standard nothing to be upset about it just is.

You can't work at most McDonald's with a face tattoo, that does not mean you can't make a hell of a egg McMuffin

I agree with your position that having a tattoo in itself does not equal anything specific about performance.. Tattoos are not indicative in anyway shape or form a performance or capability...

But the simple fact is the powers to be have decided that the male haircut standard, the female earring policy, the current tattoo policy is visual professional standard for appearance category. You may not agree with it but it is what it is

Response by SSG Michael Burdiss made Jul 29 at 2017 5:36 PM

2017-07-29T17:36:51-04:00

But you can turn into a shemale and that's fine?

Response by SCPO Morris Ramsey made Jul 29 at 2017 5:56 PM

2017-07-29T17:56:37-04:00

I just read this long change of comments. There are many opinions listed here. Lots of options. I never was one to buck policy. Usually there is a solid reason for the policy. I took a course in Navy Regulations years ago. A very solid document. Not for sure if it is still in the UCMJ, but at one time there was an article that prohibited "kicking a public horse". I bet at the time it was written there were a lot more public horses than there are today.

Response by SPC Louis Copechal made Jul 29 at 2017 6:34 PM

2017-07-29T18:34:40-04:00

If a soldier is QUALIFIED, a tattoo SHOULD NOT negate his pursuit of the officers side as long as it is hidden UNDER his uniform.

Response by MSgt Bill Loveli made Jul 29 at 2017 6:34 PM

2017-07-29T18:34:46-04:00

I turned down a request to accept a tempory comission TWICE. As a senior staff NCO I enjoyed running things.
You couldn't PAY me to be a commisioned officer!

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 29 at 2017 7:08 PM

2017-07-29T19:08:18-04:00

i didn't know the military was suppose to bend to your feelings and beliefs. either get them removed or suck it up buttercup.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 29 at 2017 8:18 PM

2017-07-29T20:18:12-04:00

Army policy states Soldiers can have mustaches too, but how many officers have them? Though policies regarding uniform wear and appearance, there will always be a significant divide between NCOs and Officers.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 29 at 2017 8:32 PM

2017-07-29T20:32:17-04:00

Welcome to the real military, where we're forced to be waaaay more PC than the movies you've seen make us out to be.

Response by 1SG John B. Enlow made Jul 29 at 2017 9:14 PM

2017-07-29T21:14:18-04:00

Depending on the post-military job/career you'll look for in the private sector, I can only recommend you think long and hard about specific tattoo designs and body locations before going under the needle. I've been in the private sector 22 years and have seen sharp men and women, many prior military, lose out on jobs or career promotions due to tattoos. Tattoos on the face, neck, or hands are usually an automatic no-go. Visible tattoos representing even a hint of 'gang' affiliation, zip codes, ball and chain, spider webs, tear drops, etc. are also show stoppers. I had a young man once try to convince me deep down he was really a 'people person' in spite of having 'love' and 'hate' tattooed across the knuckles of both hands. Keep in mind the uniform comes off one day - ready or not.

Response by CW5 Kenneth Foster made Jul 29 at 2017 9:15 PM

2017-07-29T21:15:16-04:00

Waivers are,allowed if approved by DA G1, however if there is a lot of applicants any type of waiver will take away from an otherwise perfect packet. Same goes for education pound for pound additional education will make you a better applicant.

Response by SFC Dwayne Gilson made Jul 29 at 2017 9:49 PM

2017-07-29T21:49:10-04:00

Because the Army has standards and why should they lower them for you. Maybe you should have thought about your future before you got tattoos. You sound like one of those kids in the civilian with big holes in the ears and all kinds of facial piercings and wonders why he can't get a job above minimum wage.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 29 at 2017 10:44 PM

2017-07-29T22:44:52-04:00

I think of you want to be an officer you need to learn how to spell And proof read your messages

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 30 at 2017 12:12 AM

2017-07-30T00:12:46-04:00

I think you are responding like a new recruit. Hey the Army did not put that ink on you. You did. Easy fix get them removed. When you do be a good leader and tell your troops even little things can haunt you later.

Response by CSM Ralph Hernandez made Jul 30 at 2017 1:52 AM

2017-07-30T01:52:02-04:00

Regulations are regulations! If you don't like them then get out! Plain and simple. We are not going to change the regulation just too please you!

Response by PO3 Robb North made Jul 30 at 2017 2:00 PM

2017-07-30T14:00:13-04:00

To me it sounds like a form of discrimination and should be challenged in a court of law.

Response by PVT Mark Zehner made Jul 30 at 2017 3:39 PM

2017-07-30T15:39:38-04:00

A rule that's totally past being worth anything I have tattoos I'm an army and police veteran I have a marketing degree and I work with the Wounded Warriors Project! So many jobs are rejected from me because of my tattoos!

Response by Albert Ventura made Jul 30 at 2017 5:44 PM

2017-07-30T17:44:34-04:00

The art that you wear on your arm should have no bearing on what you "should" be wearing on your shoulders

Response by 1SG Alan Boggs made Jul 30 at 2017 7:12 PM

2017-07-30T19:12:04-04:00

I think that the military does not exist to provide people with job opportunities. The military has regulations and standards that have been developed over the years and if someone doesn't meet them, that's that, move on.

Response by SGT Bryan O'Reilly made Jul 30 at 2017 7:31 PM

2017-07-30T19:31:31-04:00

I think it's chickenshit. For 5,000 years warriors have used symbols and tattoos to honor their commitment to serve. Stripping you of that right is not only appeasing someone who will never serve, it's depriving us of the value you can provide this nation in your capacity as a WO.

Response by CW4 Kevin Stone made Jul 30 at 2017 9:06 PM

2017-07-30T21:06:14-04:00

That regulation was there when you enlisted and it's there now.

Response by CPL Randy Bautista made Jul 30 at 2017 9:54 PM

2017-07-30T21:54:47-04:00

It has nothing to do with a commission. You can't join at all... that's the policy it has nothing to do with if you meet the physical requirement. You have an image not of your own that your representing. That means you have to abide by all there requirements... if you already in and joined with a waiver then that's all you have to provide to clear for comission... if you got done after you joined be happy you not getting separated for it. It's not what the military can do for you it's what you can do for it. At the end of the day that's what it boils down to

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 30 at 2017 10:01 PM

2017-07-30T22:01:56-04:00

Not true... That is a myth

Response by LCDR Nathan Rau made Jul 30 at 2017 10:06 PM

2017-07-30T22:06:49-04:00

Without adding fuel to the fire. (And I'm too busy to read the other responses) the issue lies in the face that is intended to be presented. Tattoos and the like to the general populace is indicative of rebellion and a lack of respect to authority. Right or wrong. That is what the populace sees. The regulations and rules are there to placate them.

Response by Cpl Tim Rice made Jul 30 at 2017 10:09 PM

2017-07-30T22:09:05-04:00

There's thr right way.
The wrong way!
And ... .... ...

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 30 at 2017 10:21 PM

2017-07-30T22:21:53-04:00

Agreed brother. That is a retarded policy. What does body ink have to do with anything. It's not like it's on your face or neck. This policy needs to be updated. No one (normal) in 2017 is offended by a sleeve. I would think it should be perfectly acceptiblr for a soldier to have some ink... we're soldiers!!!

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 30 at 2017 10:57 PM

2017-07-30T22:57:50-04:00

I thought the current policy now states that whatever is covered when in ASU's is permissible? For example, I have not been a Warrant Officer that long (started the process in 2015) and I have a tattoo on my forearm. While not a full-sleeve, it is certainly visible in t-shirts just like a full-sleeve tattoo. I also went to WOCS with several others that had large forearm tattoos as well--and this was within the last two years. None of us were barred from becoming Warrant Officers.

You might want to re-visit the policy and the current updates to AR 670-1 (to include whether or not current SM's are grandfathered in).

Response by SFC Joseph Roy made Jul 30 at 2017 11:12 PM

2017-07-30T23:12:33-04:00

Tattoo policy needs to be relaxed to a certain level. Military wears their sleeves down 99% of the time any ways.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 31 at 2017 12:19 AM

2017-07-31T00:19:31-04:00

Them are the breaks, kid. Actions have consequences.

Response by CPT Craig Mathison made Jul 31 at 2017 1:13 AM

2017-07-31T01:13:58-04:00

What more important to you? Becoming and officer or having a tattoo? If it is about your future and becoming and officer suck it up and make the grown-up decision and have them removed. It will hurt like hell and take few a months but it'll be worth it make this sacrifice for your future, career, and family.

Response by Sgt Howard Pierce made Jul 31 at 2017 6:57 AM

2017-07-31T06:57:24-04:00

Tattoos are a Naval tradition really. Probably Army too. When I graduated from DI school, a bunch of us went into town and got a PI DI tattoo, with the Marine Corps mascot (Bull Dog).

During my career I saw plenty of officers with tattoos. But then, this was the pre-gang tat era. And I think that the government frowns because they had to draw lines when the gangs tried to infiltrate the United States military and Naval services.

Response by SP6 Richie Love made Jul 31 at 2017 7:46 AM

2017-07-31T07:46:18-04:00

I believe its is appearance thing. Society has said we should adapt to meet what people are doing now. But I am sorry. Military isn't a place where we need to change our standards to meet society. In the professional world business don't want people who are all tattooed up. Because they feel it is a bad representation for their company. So why should the Army be any different. When you get the tattoos you take a chance of missing out on things. No one forced you, no one paid you, and no one drugged you and gave it to you. You free will. SO know you must pay the consequences for your actions. I believed as long as they are hid in a class A uniform then this is fine (Business attire is usually long sleeve and jacket). But if its a job where short sleeve is required as business dress then tattoos below elbow are wrong. You are blaming the rules for your decision. This is wrong. Sorry about your luck. but except responsibility for your own decisions there SGT.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 31 at 2017 8:00 AM

2017-07-31T08:00:01-04:00

My question is did the tattoo come before or after joining? If it was after then tough suck it up you knew the standered and chose to ignore it now it is biting you and you don't like it. Well welcome to the army where you can't just do whatever the F you want and expect it to be ok

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 31 at 2017 8:29 AM

2017-07-31T08:29:43-04:00

I've seen plenty of 09S come in with full sleeves and some with tattoos on there knuckles.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 31 at 2017 9:55 AM

2017-07-31T09:55:45-04:00

Policies is policy and it's policy for a reason sometime standards is more appropriate then ability even in today's world first impressions sometime still is the best impression if you want to be an officer remove the tattoos and adapt to the military

Response by SGT Michael May made Jul 31 at 2017 9:57 AM

2017-07-31T09:57:25-04:00

I've been out of the army for 17yrs now and I realize that things change with time. I remember one of the 2LT's in my company having tattoos, a couple of Harley's and when you saw him away from work you would never guess he in the army let alone an officer. Now in saying this, I must say that he was on of the best junior officers in my company.
A book laying on a table is just a book, once open the contents are revealed. In today's society we deal with the PC that comes from our government officials which impart don't know anything about being a leader of men / women. Most never serving in the military but yet put standards in place to govern the services.
It never mattered to me if you had tattoos, or anything else. A leader will be measured by his/ her strengths and the respect of those they lead, not by the art work on his body.
I will say that having it above the neckline is ridiculous.
Hopefully, they'll change their stance on that policy, because many good men/ women will be lost. And we all know good leaders are hard to come by and only great ones come once in a lifetime.
HEAD UP EYES FORWARD SOLIDER.

Response by CPT Jim Pat Flowers made Jul 31 at 2017 11:14 AM

2017-07-31T11:14:50-04:00

Don't get tattoos.

Response by SGM Jeff Baker made Jul 31 at 2017 11:31 AM

2017-07-31T11:31:04-04:00

I'm a retired SGM and I believe you should be able to be an Officer or Warrant even if you have tattoos. If you have one tha is vulgar or racist you should get it cover with another tat. Otherwise we have Officers that are in now and have neck tattoos and they can be seen at all times.

Response by SFC SFC Gregory Rogers made Jul 31 at 2017 12:15 PM

2017-07-31T12:15:22-04:00

Get them removed, decide what is most important to you rules are rules

Response by Cpl Michael Jenkins made Jul 31 at 2017 12:59 PM

2017-07-31T12:59:57-04:00

I agree son of the regulations need to be changed. You should be denied on qualification not tattoos

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 31 at 2017 2:43 PM

2017-07-31T14:43:22-04:00

I have visable tattoos and im an officer...i thought we were over this?!

Response by SGT Andrew Herrera made Jul 31 at 2017 3:57 PM

2017-07-31T15:57:20-04:00

If you were allowed to enter with them it shouldn't be a problem, if you got them WHILE you are active well....you messed that up on your own.

Response by 1SG Larry Taggart made Jul 31 at 2017 4:50 PM

2017-07-31T16:50:06-04:00

I agree the policy has never been about ones capabilities but rather image. There are considerations one must make when they chose to place in on their body where it can be seen . I like tattoos, don't have any due to words my father spoke to me as a young adult. But to wish you had a tattoo than wish you didn't.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 31 at 2017 5:05 PM

2017-07-31T17:05:07-04:00

There's a waiver for it. It also depends on when you got the tatto from what I recall. I know an officer who was able to get his tattoos waived. It's a fight but there's a way around it.

Response by Sgt Dee Watts made Jul 31 at 2017 6:52 PM

2017-07-31T18:52:23-04:00

You made a poor decision getting a sleeve. Not only do they not present a professional military appearance, they don't present a professional appearance in the civilian world either. You'll find that having such extreme tattoos will be a roadblock for many civilian jobs too.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 31 at 2017 9:00 PM

2017-07-31T21:00:47-04:00

The Army has a policy for facial hair, ear rings, the length of your finger nails, your hair cut. I understand that tattoos are part of pop culture now but that doesn't mean it effects Army policy. I'd like to grow a beard, but it's against policy. Why should tattoos be any different?

Response by Capt James Black made Jul 31 at 2017 11:38 PM

2017-07-31T23:38:02-04:00

Strange, I went to OCS in 2007 with a right arm sleeve and another tattoo on my inner forearm... wait until we go to war again, then submit your package. Prepare to be judged by the conservative officer side, and idolized by your Marines. lol

Response by SGT Johnny Owens made Jul 31 at 2017 11:55 PM

2017-07-31T23:55:07-04:00

Their Army, their rules. I found it insulting that I spent four years working my balls off, training, and studying to become an NCO so a LT could attend ROTC at LSU and enter service with more authority and pay.

Response by PO3 Claude Mills made Aug 1 at 2017 1:03 AM

2017-08-01T01:03:48-04:00

The rules haven't changed, you should've thought ahead.

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 1 at 2017 3:33 AM

2017-08-01T03:33:51-04:00

Sounds like you should've joined the Navy. We have the bare minimum when it comes to tattoo regulations. And that goes for our officers as well, if I'm not mistaken

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 20 at 2018 12:47 AM

2018-07-20T00:47:13-04:00

I don't understand? So an officer can't have any tattoos or only not have visible tattoos?

Response by MSG Scott McBride made Dec 29 at 2018 11:57 AM

2018-12-29T11:57:00-05:00

The Army cant make up its mind on this subject or uniforms and APFT for that matter. Tattoos are a part of out culture. Always have been. But, today's policy is there and many capable leaders will suffer. Any leader who decides thier seniors or subordinates are less capabale because of tattoos are just as ignorant as the policy makers themsleves in my opinion. Face neck hands nude or other other offensive symbols or slogans should be prohibited, but to keep an otherwise capable future leader from advancement is completely ridiculous. Good luck.

Response by SFC Stanley Wood made Oct 15 at 2019 6:50 PM

2019-10-15T18:50:34-04:00

A friend of mine became a warrant and he has tattoos. But can't be seen in uniform. It's all about keeping within regulation.

Response by SFC Don Ward made Oct 15 at 2019 9:16 PM

2019-10-15T21:16:49-04:00

The old "you are free to make choices, but you are not free of the consequences of those choices".

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 15 at 2019 10:42 PM

2019-10-15T22:42:44-04:00

I've always believed tattoos should be carte blanche allowed, along with beards. I want someone looking at us and sh*tting their pants thinking we will consume their flesh, not like a bunch of baby faced Boy Scouts ready for our next merit badge.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 16 at 2019 12:01 AM

2019-10-16T00:01:41-04:00

In an organization that wears a long sleeve uniform I can’t say that I agree

Response by SPC John Decker made Oct 17 at 2019 10:43 PM

2019-10-17T22:43:06-04:00

It seems to me that the objective should be to get the rule changed. I don't know what the procedure might be, or even if there is one. A petition? A letter writing campaign? The rule is in place for a reason. Maybe that reason no longer applies. Don't try to avoid the rules and don't expect higher-ups to by-pass them for you. Find out what the proper procedures are for changing the rules.

Response by SFC William Ewing made Oct 19 at 2019 2:28 PM

2019-10-19T14:28:25-04:00

Back in the seventies almost never saw a senior NCO or officer with tats Army. We did count scars from Vietnam and hard training. With scars didn't need tats, My wife counted over twenty scars once. They had to present a professional appearance at all times, in uniform or at the pool.
Now sailors it was a requirement.

Response by CMDCM Gene Treants made Apr 15 at 2020 1:06 AM

2020-04-15T01:06:52-04:00

Rules are made by people who have nothing else to do on a Friday or Monday and get bored. I was on my third tour as a Command Master Chief and someone in the Bureau of Personel, Maybe the CNO, maybe the Chief of Personnel, Maybe some Yoeman who could not grow a "stash, IDK, decided the Command Personnel, Specifically CO, XO, and CMC, would not be allowed to wear mustaches.
Yes, the directive said specifically those three! Mustaches were now considered unprofessional!

I had been sprouting my Navy Regulation Mustache since they were first allowed in the '70s and yes, I was UPSET. But I shaved it off. (See my picture? that was during the prohibited period and when we took official pictures for USS Anzio (CG-68) My Wife had never seen me without my womb broom and was not happy either, but the winds in DC changed in a few months. As they always do. So relax, have a beer, and wait a week.

Response by Sgt Corry Blount made Jul 8 at 2020 9:42 PM

2020-07-08T21:42:23-04:00

Silly rule!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 25 at 2021 11:11 PM

2021-02-25T23:11:24-05:00

It’s funny that I joined the Army with a tattoo on my neck (grandfathered), the Army said that I’m good enough to serve.. I guess they meant only as a lower enlisted Soldier? I progressed through the ranks without having to remove it now after 9 years of service, I’m going through the process of removal because I’m aspiring to be a Warrant Officer and have been denied twice due to having it. Even though 50% has already been removed and the process would’ve been complete by the time I got commissioned!

I completely understand that conveying a professional appearance is important, but with all the changes happening now... I think we can revisit this issue. In my culture, warriors wear their tattoos as a mark of honor and pride. Warriors bear their ink... #whatsyourwarrior

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 14 at 2021 10:57 PM

2021-03-14T22:57:20-04:00

When you made the choice to get the tattoos did you consider all of possible outcomes? All decisions have positive and negative consequences. Although you might not have known your choice could have resulted in a disqualification it doesn't change the fact it was. You made an uninformed choice and now you have to live with the outcome. Just because you think the regulation is BS doesn't make it BS. A tattoo is a choice. You made an arm length of choices and now are complaining that the standards of an organization that you voluntarily joined should be changed because the standard inconveniences you the individual. Do I think less of you because of a tattoo? No I don't. I strongly suspect there is more to this than what has been reported. But I do think you didn't think your decision through in regards to your career goals. If you were disqualified for another reason that you thought was BS do we change that too. Instead of posting on public media forums looking for support I suggest you seek remedy by researching the appropriate regulations thoroughly, construct a well written presentation, present it to a non-military authority (congress person) and seek to have the regulation changed. We serve the US Govt not the military. The regulation may not get changed during your career but at least you will know you did your Service a service. If you choose not to act, then you need to ask, Is this about you the individual or the greater good?