Can you say no when it comes down to signing for equipment because you are not comfortable with that responsibility?

2020-05-14T16:05:32-04:00

Are you able to deny signing for all your BN S3 equipment because it’s scattered and your not comfortable with signing for it all? I have been told my whole Army career thus far to physically inspect and see everything that is on the hand receipt and you have the right to deny signing for equipment. I am being told that I am being Command directed to sign for everything and that I have 30 days to do so or it’s “automatically” mine anyways. I was told it’s only a “courtesy” that I could be shown everything. I am feeling pressured and backed into a corner on this. Any legal advice or information that someone knows would be helpful. Thanks in advance on your thoughts.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made May 14 at 2020 4:19 PM

2020-05-14T16:19:06-04:00

You aren't required to sign for something site unseen. I recently did a Change of Command inventory and I assure you I looked at every piece of equipment scattered over 6 different locations (3 hours apart) and verified serial numbers.

You need the opportunity to do that IOT sign for anything. If you're being bullied into doing so, use the open door policy of your next leader in the CoC. Nobody wants a FLIPL!

AR 710-2, table 2-2 clearly states: "Receipt, turn-in, and issue of property - verify physical counts and verify and list serial numbers..." per occurrence before signing documents.

https://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/DR_pubs/DR_a/pdf/web/r710_2.pdf

r710_2.pdf

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Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 14 at 2020 4:45 PM

2020-05-14T16:45:10-04:00

If you have not personally had your eyes on every piece of equipment on the inventory....DO NOT SIGN until you do.

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made May 14 at 2020 4:47 PM

2020-05-14T16:47:34-04:00

Absolutely demand politely to see everything for which you are asked to sign. If the equipment can't be produced, ask the person wishing to relinquish responsibility to complete a "report of survey" explaining what happened to equipment under his or her custody. If the current "owner" continues to insist you sign sight-unseen, go to your unit first sergeant or CSM. If they are the problem, go to the BN S4 or BN Commander.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 14 at 2020 4:51 PM

2020-05-14T16:51:38-04:00

Not being comfortable with the responsibility is not a valid reason. You can't simply choose not to sign for equipment that you are responsible for. You also can't be automatically given the equipment either. The property must transfer hands, you have no control over that. How it is annotated and accepted is what you have control over. You absolutely should not sign for property you cannot visually inspect and verify, and you can't be forced to either. That's why those change of command inspections take so long to complete. 30 days is more than enough time to account for and sign for all the property in an S3 section. Any shortages should be noted, FLIPLs and statement of charges initiated, etc. But, you have to sign for the property and you have more than enough time to do it within regulatory guidance to prevent yourself from being liable for missing or broken equipment.

Response by SGM(P) Private RallyPoint Member made May 14 at 2020 4:57 PM

2020-05-14T16:57:39-04:00

In short No. There are different levels of responsibility when it comes to property. If you hold a position that makes you the primary hand reciept holder you have several responsibilities.

1. Ensure all property is accounted for by end item and all shortages are properly documented. If not accounted for..FLIPLs should be next up for the previous hand reciept holder, to either pay for and replace lost or missing items.. or remove from them your hand reciept.

2. You have a responsibilty to sub hand reciept all equipment to the end user. This ensures property is being accounted for and maintained by the person who is using it.

3. You have a responsibilty to periodically inspect the items held by your sub hand reciept holders. This ensures your property is maintained,serviced and accounted for periodically while under your control.

You..just like any commander..are accountable for the property assigned to you and even if you are not willing to sign for it, you may still be found liable for it. This is all subject to specific timelines. Check with your S4.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 14 at 2020 5:31 PM

2020-05-14T17:31:59-04:00

You need to physically see all pieces of equipment you are signing for. If you have not seen it, you cant sign for it.

Response by LTC Jason Mackay made May 15 at 2020 2:00 AM

2020-05-15T02:00:21-04:00

- If they can't produce it, don't sign for that item. Initiate a FLIPL. But you will sign for what is present.
- it's spread out. Yep. You mitigate your financial responsibility from it by: immediately assigning it via HR to the end user or section Leader, conducting your cyclic inventories, ensuring periodic maintenance is conducted as required, ensuring the end user secures the property, ensuring there is key control.
- best tactic is to have the equipment laid out when you sign for it and immediately have the end users sign for it in the same eye blink. You'll need to have your docs prepared up front.
- make your self a HR book where you keep it all organized.
- you'll need the components for shortage annexes
- get your commander's guidance on shortage Annex ordering. You'll need a MFR if they are NOT ordering items.
- this is your window to get relief for all the crap that isn't there. Once you initiate a couple FLiPLS stuff will miraculously "appear".
- write notes on your working copy about WHERE things are and what KEY Number secures it from the key control log. Biggest hold up is figuring out where it lives.

Response by SSgt Christophe Murphy made May 15 at 2020 9:47 AM

2020-05-15T09:47:23-04:00

I would recommend conducting an inventory and before the end of the 30 day period have a list of all equipment you have not been able to find or inventory. You can't be forced to take custody and ownership of equipment that hasn't been accounted for but you also can't cross your arms and just say no. At some point you will need to take the reigns but you have full rights to get eyes on everything before you sign for it.