Can you relate - Survey: Women struggle to be seen as 'real' veterans

COL Charles Williams — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 09:58:13 -0400

There are two interesting articles in the early bird today on "women in the military." One is on the excessive suicide rates already posted by SPC Jan Allbright, M.Sc., R.S., and this is the other:

While I served my whole career in the Army with women, and have discussed these issues with them many times.... I still can't (will never) really understand how women in the military really feel. I have certainly tried, but I have never walked in their shoes. I salute them for being trailblazers, but often wonder why one would want to subject themselves to such scrutiny.

I continue to be interested, as these numbers will continue to increase, and I want to be part of the solution.

We still have a long way to go.

http://www.militarytimes.com/story/military/benefits/veterans/2015/06/08/survey-women-struggle-to-be-seen-as-real-veterans/28698003/

~313343:SFC Mark Merino] TSgt Hunter Logan SGT Private RallyPoint Member SPC Jeff Daley, PhD LTC Stephen C. GySgt Wayne A. Ekblad CSM Michael J. Uhlig CSM Private RallyPoint Member Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS CPT Aaron Kletzing MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca MAJ Private RallyPoint Member COL Vincent Stoneking SGT Private RallyPoint Member LTC Stephen F. CW5 Private RallyPoint Member CPT Private RallyPoint Member

Survey: Women struggle to be seen as 'real' veterans

Women surveyed reported trouble being accepted as veterans in their post-military lives, leading to transition problems.

Response by SPC Jan Allbright, M.Sc., R.S. made Jun 9 at 2015 10:07 AM

SPC Jan Allbright, M.Sc., R.S. — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 10:07:50 -0400

Take a look at SGT (P) Stephanie Grewell's rack.
If that ain't a vet I will eat my hat.
https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/let-s-see-your-ribbon-rack-no-matter-how-small-or-how-large-but-it-has-to-be-your-rack

Let's see your ribbon rack. No matter how small, or how large. But it has to be your rack. |...

This one is mine. Although rack builder doesn't have devices for the National Guard Ribbons. I have 2 Kentucky State active Ribbons.

Response by COL Mikel J. Burroughs made Jun 9 at 2015 10:24 AM

COL Mikel J. Burroughs — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 10:24:57 -0400

We have some very sharp women in our ranks and they shouldn't be treated any differently when it comes to their veteran status. As a logistics officer every unit that I commanded along this branch were made up the brightest and sharpest women (soldiers as I refer to all that wear the uniform) in uniform. Just about every unit had more women than men in ley assigned positions. When I was a Battalion Commander of an FSB at one time I had (4) Female Company Commanders leading the way! Here's a big shout out to all women veterans. Keep doing what you are doing and hopefully this stigma that is following will disappear. Here is an interesting fact for all the male veterans out there that don't feel the same way about women veterans:

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/female_amputees_all_troops_are_on_front_lines/

Female Amputees: All Troops Are on Front Lines

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Jun 9 at 2015 10:42 AM

MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 10:42:32 -0400

This may sound a bit awkward and I apologize up front, because this is observation, strictly MHO and not intended to be judgmental.

Look at the female SMs we're putting in the ads and drawing attention to and how they are portrayed. Now look at the average female population of a unit and the work they do. Do you see a difference? Women in society are still deemed the "fairer sex". Nothing wrong with that at all but in portraying vets, maybe it needs to change.

I think if we continue to "glamorize" woman in the military and draw attention to topics like "maintaining femininity" in uniform then this adds to the issue of how and why woman veterans are portrayed the way they are.

The stereotypical male vet image - older, less about looks, more about pride and vet apparel, scared/concentrated look, not so much smiling as lost in thought. I don't think we are painting that image to the American public when it comes to female vets.

When I participate in ceremonies at the America Legion Post I see female vets from earlier eras and they have that more typical look you would expect to see in a male vet of the same era They share that same pride of a job well done and pride in their branch and service.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 9 at 2015 10:50 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 10:50:37 -0400

There are cultural norms at play here. Although we have served with some amazing women, the general public is not accustomed to recognizing women in the service - so female veterans fight that stereotype. They have to fight the social programming of Hollywood since there is no female equivalent of "Rambo," although Laura Croft comes close. This is not just a perception and society problem; it is a very personal one - one of identity. Being a Soldier is an identity and part of being a veteran. When a women is called, "not a real veteran," they are being denied part of their identity. They have bled, died, suffered, and sacrificed with the rest of us in combat zones, but are looked at as second-class service members. It's not right and it needs to change.

Response by LTC Stephen F. made Jun 9 at 2015 11:42 AM

LTC Stephen F. — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 11:42:48 -0400

COL Charles Williams Women veterans deserve full honor and respect. Military service which is honorable should be honored independent of where the veteran is a man or a woman.
Background: I am a member of the first class at both USMAPS [USMA Prep School] 1976 and USMA 1980 which included women. I saw the impact first hand on both the institutions and the men and women who were part of the classes. At USMAPS at Fort Monmouth it wasn't as big a deal for many of us who had prior service because we had all seen women in the military and we didn't see the barracks changes, etc made before we arrived.
West Point was a completely different story - national attention and pressure had been focused on how the Service Academies integrated women into the cadet training, billeting and grooming to be officers process. Whereas total class attrition was a roughly 30 percent for the first group of women it was over 50%. For structural design and safety the 100 plus women were divided into small groups of 4 and inserted into 25% of the 36 cadet companies [the idea was to insert women into at least 25% more of the companies each year so that by 1980 each company would have women within them - my company H-3 had women cadets beginning in 1977] More women applied and were accepted so that in my own company we had women in the classes of 1981 and 1983.
While there was national pressure to integrate women, there was incredibly strong feelings based on the historical tradition by many that integrating women for primarily political reasons was not good while others recognized that fact but worked to integrate the women. I leaned toward the latter group but as in most things the ones at the bottom have little direct influences except on the people they come in contact with who have have a significant influence on. I tried to treat everybody with respect.
Each company had a personality which developed over time - some companies tended to eat their young while the other end were not hard-line and more laid back. My own company was closer to the latter. The companies that tended to eat their young had higher than average attrition of both men and women cadets.
West Point went through a significant struggle to integrate women. Now women are fully integrated at that Service Academy. I do not now when it began but I am glad I was part of the early process.

Response by SGT Kevin Brown made Jun 9 at 2015 12:13 PM

SGT Kevin Brown — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 12:13:57 -0400

As a man I cannot relate directly, but I see this frequently, especially in veteran clubs like the VFW and American Legion. I am not going to lie though, a female veteran's face is priceless when a new bar tender or someone else asks them if they are an auxiliary member.

Even going to the VA or just in public in general I see many females driving vehicles with veteran plates. It is all to common to hear people say it must be her boyfriend or husbands truck. I think it is wrong and feel for them on this matter. A veteran is a veteran.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 9 at 2015 1:19 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 13:19:52 -0400

I went on my first deployment August 2013 -July 2014, I struggled to remain included with my squad. I got moved once to another squad so they could have 2 females together. I didn't want that because I had trained and did everything with the first group I was in. Luckily the 2 squads went together to a small FOB and I was able to work with both groups. After 2 months they put me back with the one I began with. I busted my ass and worked as hard if not harder than any of the guys. Not really as me trying to roll with the guys but I was really trying to motivate the young ones who just didn't want to do anything. I spent a lot of my deployment 3 stories up, crawling under trucks, etc. The beginning days they would constantly put females as CLS or weapon guards, I basically said fuck you and would work with the CLS bag attached to me. They finally got the hint and allowed me to work. Some women yes dont like swinging a hammer or doing the engineer work that was part of their MOS but guess what neither did some of the men. Almost half of our women ended up being pulled into admin positions weather they wanted to or not but they were better at it than the Platoon Sgts and our 1st Sgt. The last few months of our deployment my platoon went to Marmel Afghanistan and claimed it was male only, they would post photos from 5ks they did and guess what there were females. I went rouge for the time they were gone and ended up working with a group of contractor and random 10th mountain groups. I have 11 certificates from that deployment to include Task force: Blackbear, Longhorn, Muleskinner and Lockheed Martin PTDSA. As a female we take a lot of blows to our character, if you have a friend or friends your flirtatious or slutty. Towards the end I had noone except 3 contractors and a air force female. I saw a few females just ball up and die inside because of constant blows to their character, sexual harassment, pushed to the background, etc. It was men who had daughters that treated us with respect, I know its getting better but we need to find that brother/sister bond and realize we are all paid by our ranks not by our genders so let us work like any other soldier. We are soldiers, we leave our kids at home so we can be soldiers, we don't get put on the same pedestal as a man. A father leaves for war they are providing for his family, a mother leaves and she's abandoning her children. Let me get off my soapbox now.

Response by PO3 Sherry Thornburg made Jun 9 at 2015 8:11 PM

PO3 Sherry Thornburg — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 20:11:12 -0400

I didn't have much trouble, but I come from a long military family and had plenty of recognition support. I've read, however, that over the years since WW1, women have pretty much been told to let it go and let the guys have the glory, the VA services and everything else.

One hopes that we have gotten away from that. The fact that there are woman's VA centers gives me hope.