Can you make a Soldier buy a car?

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 19 Oct 2023 09:56:00 -0400

I didn't know how else to title this. I'm in the Army Reserve and I have a Soldier (SPC) who is prior active. He's been with us for almost a year and still doesn't have a vehicle. He's been relying on others to give him rides and oftentimes that has been falling on me and it's getting really annoying. Since he's been here, he's bought enough firearms to probably buy several affordable vehicles. I know I can't force him to buy something, but am I justified to counsel him with it being his personal responsibility to have a reliable means of transportation? I feel like that's a jerk thing to do, but this has become a thorn in my side. I'm not sure what else to do. I've communicated several times and ask him every month and during check-ups if he bought anything yet, but then I hear from other Soldiers that he bought a new firearm. And again. And again.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 19 at 2023 10:26 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 19 Oct 2023 10:26:27 -0400

You've already acknowledged you can't 'force' anyone to purchase anything.
You can stop giving him rides. You can counsel him on his obligation to attend scheduled training events (and personal responsibility for making arrangements to get to said events; IAW AR 135-91 3-1). However, if you are talking about transportation each month with no change, I highly doubt writing it on paper will make any difference to the Soldier.

Response by CSM William Everroad made Oct 19 at 2023 11:57 AM

CSM William Everroad — Thu, 19 Oct 2023 11:57:40 -0400

SSG Private RallyPoint Member, No, you cannot make them, but as MAJ Private RallyPoint Member pointed out you can counsel them.

I will note, that the counseling should be a conversation with the expectation that Soldiers are required to be at their appointed place of duty and relying on others to help, while beneficial in the short term to bridge unforeseen circumstances, is not sustainable to a successful career. You can indicate that you, and fellow Soldiers, will not be able to reliably support his lack of transportation over the long term and agree to a plan of action, with specific dates that includes gaining the reliable means to arrive and perform their duties.

This may even include some financial preparedness outlines, such as saving $X each month towards a specific price range of car, detailing insurance, registration, fuel and maintenance costs, and the Soldier's plan to budget these amounts.

This could dive into other issues such as credit rating, lack of financial skills or discipline, availability of vehicles in a desired price range, etc. All of which you should be ready to provide mentorship to assist the Soldier through. If the Soldier does not want to purchase an automobile, but has alternative plans for arriving, be prepared to ask and hear them out remembering that "bumming rides" is not reliable transportation. In the end, the agreed upon plan of action is the appropriate outcome.

Response by MSG Thomas Currie made Oct 19 at 2023 1:16 PM

MSG Thomas Currie — Thu, 19 Oct 2023 13:16:41 -0400

The issue for counseling and eventually discipline is not his lack of reliable transportation, but his failure to be at his place of duty at the appointed time and place. How he gets there isn't really part of the equation. How he spends his money is not a question for the chain of command. How he gets places is not a question for the chain of command. But whether or not he is at the appointed place at the appointed time IS a matter for the chain of command.

In counseling you are addressing his performance, not his lack of transportation. If he brings up transportation as an excuse, that is where you explain that being at his place of duty on time is his responsibility, whether that means having a car, taking an uber, or whatever method he chooses.

Before formally counseling the soldier you should probably informally discuss the problem with the chain of command so you understand to what extent the CoC sees this as a problem and what (if anything) will be done when the problem continues.

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Oct 19 at 2023 3:07 PM

CW3 Kevin Storm — Thu, 19 Oct 2023 15:07:01 -0400

IMHO, I don;t see how you can counsel him for not having a car. That said, it is on the indivdual to make sure they are where they need to be on drill weekends. By foot, bus, taxi, uber, hitchhike, Conestoga wagon, it doesn't matter how you get there, as long as you get there. Failure to do so becomes "issue the tissue time!"

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 19 at 2023 11:24 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 19 Oct 2023 23:24:01 -0400

Some good advice by others on the thread to which I'll add in TC-speak, "if he can't truck it..." No need to go full "HR," just pull the 8-track, that should solve things on the double quick. Good luck.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAFyvePcR_o

The Edgar Winter Group - Free Ride (Audio)

The Edgar Winter Group, "Free Ride"Listen to The Edgar Winter Group: https://TheEdgarWinterGroup.lnk.to/listenYDSubscribe to the official Edgar Winter YouTub...

Response by SPC Sarah Wingo-Story made Oct 20 at 2023 1:37 PM

SPC Sarah Wingo-Story — Fri, 20 Oct 2023 13:37:53 -0400

I got counseled for this actually. The NCO even wrote in the counseling that I should consider a car loan. Yeah, I was pissed and wrote out the savings plan I already had in the works to be able to afford my first car within the first year at my first duty station, that he didn't know about because he had never asked. I think it depends on the soldier, but a counseling where you lay out a few options might be your best bet.

Response by SFC Kelly Fuerhoff made Oct 20 at 2023 4:24 PM

SFC Kelly Fuerhoff — Fri, 20 Oct 2023 16:24:28 -0400

You can counsel a soldier for anything. It's just a counseling statement. It's not a negative thing. It's just mentorship ultimately.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 20 at 2023 11:12 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 20 Oct 2023 23:12:49 -0400

You can't make them buy a car. You can ensure they know where to be and when to be there. If there are financial issues this Soldier is facing, there are tools to help them. Now, if they have no financial issues, and just want to spend all the money on firearms, that's their personal business. BUT, them being late IS your business. Not saying you have to give him rides. You can, but not required. Its one of those annoying sacrifices. What I am saying is that if you've exhausted all avenues and tools to fix the issue, then start giving him U's. One way or another, the issue will be fixed. Either he will get reliable transportation or get drummed out after 9 U's.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 21 at 2023 5:12 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 21 Oct 2023 17:12:16 -0400

Before I start, it was my policy when meeting new soldiers (especially FUTURE soldiers) my first question out of the gate was do you have a car, and what is your situation with work and school.

Basically............ can they get to BA and AT on their own and while being a reservist greatly hinder their civilian obligations?

They signed the contract, they are obligated to do their part.

I'll even go as far to say that you in no way need to give any kind of counseling. Now, of course that's the wrong answer :-) We as leaders need to help them find a pathway of USAR participation, but in many cases that just continues to fall on deaf ears, and our efforts only tire ourselves in our attempts to mee our own responsibilities.

Yes, council him, but let the U's stack up. 9 is the magic number. U's for absences are the one thing that we can make stick as leaders for adverse actions. The absence of the soldier's signature on the sign in roster (the one we sign to get paid) is documentation enough.

The importance of just keeping documentation on EVERYTHING is U's alone will probably not get a general to separate a soldier. But if they miss an AT movement, default on their GTC, get in any sort of messy trouble then Generals magically will use the 9-U's as the black and white regulatory reason to separate the soldier without having to jump through the due process hoops of proving GTC misuse, or the process of drug violations, or the due process of any violations that require review and a trial.

9 U's, proof is the unsigned roster 9 times in 12 months, done deal. Have a nice day. Their separation orders are in the mail.

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While it is quicker and easier to fix a Unit's readiness ratios with actions that improve the Numerator sometimes we just have to bite the bullet and fix the readiness ratio with actions that reduce the Denominator.

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 24 at 2023 3:48 PM

SCPO Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 24 Oct 2023 15:48:37 -0400

In any reserve component of the U.S. military the requirement is for a reservist to show up for his scheduled drills and annual training on time, properly groomed, and in the proper squared away uniform. If he/she gets there by flying in via jet pack, jogs in, unicycles in, or is dropped off by his mom it doesn't matter. When the reservist continuously does not show up on time, or doesn't show up at all, then counseling/administrative/disciplinary actions need to be initiated to achieve compliance. If the outcome of those actions still results in non-compliance then the reservist needs to be recommended for separation from the military. Prior service doesn't count for anything as far as this issue is concerned.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 24 at 2023 4:47 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 24 Oct 2023 16:47:56 -0400

Uber is fairly reliable. He just needs to show up.