Can you be pro-life but also pro-death penalty?

PFC Alexander Oliveira — Wed, 09 Mar 2016 14:15:32 -0500

I would like everybodys insight and justification on this. how are you pro-life yet pro-death penalty? what is your reasoning that you are against abortion yet for the systematic punishment of putting people to death? is it because the baby has committed no crime? what if it was known it would grow up to kill? would you still be pro life? this could be a great and in depth discussion.

Response by LTC Stephen F. made Mar 9 at 2016 2:16 PM

LTC Stephen F. — Wed, 09 Mar 2016 14:16:44 -0500

I am pro-life from prior to birth for to-be infant and mom-to-be through raising that child and his or her mon through after the death of each person PFC Alexander Oliveira
I support the death penalty in for criminals convicted in cases for crimes which clearly fall within this nation's definition of capital crimes. I do not support North Korea's definition of capital crimes which seems to be whimsical.
Our definition of capital crime tends to be rooted in law.

Response by SPC David S. made Mar 9 at 2016 2:29 PM

SPC David S. — Wed, 09 Mar 2016 14:29:34 -0500

Big difference is the baby is in no way culpable for being aborted. That act of conception was the result of actions beyond its control. Death penalty is applied to individuals that for what ever reason disregarded social norms and deviated from them in such extreme ways redemption and or successful re-acclimation into society seems rather unlikely. You could call it social engineering or possibly genetic weeding as to keep the rest of society safe from picking up such traits.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Mar 9 at 2016 2:31 PM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Wed, 09 Mar 2016 14:31:02 -0500

"Sometimes a rabid dog needs to be put down."

The Death Penalty is a tool in the criminal justice system. Sometimes a person has transitioned into Monster, and must be permanently removed from society whatever the cost. It is a tool that should be available, but used sparingly. That said, I don't know what governmental level can be trusted with this tool.

This tool is completely separate from the Pro-Life/Choice argument. They are not linked.

Response by PO2 Steven Erickson made Mar 9 at 2016 2:35 PM

PO2 Steven Erickson — Wed, 09 Mar 2016 14:35:48 -0500

I am staunchly pro-life, and often see the need for the death penalty.

The fast justification is that taking an innocent life is murder, and in no instance can I condone murder. Administration of the death penalty to a convicted person can be justified - the person is not innocent, and has been convicted of a crime so heinous that society must be protected from the person.

"The wages of sin is death..." In a Christian world-view, were all deserving of that sentence.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 9 at 2016 2:52 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 09 Mar 2016 14:52:34 -0500

I am pro choice and I support the death penalty, but only after all doubt if guilt is removed such as through DNA or video footage rather than witness' recollection and/or circumstantial evidence.

Response by SGT Jerrold Pesz made Mar 9 at 2016 2:55 PM

SGT Jerrold Pesz — Wed, 09 Mar 2016 14:55:14 -0500

An unborn child has done no wrong and therefore does not deserve to be put to death. Criminals had their chance and by their actions proved that the world would be better off without them. While I don't actually know enough about the North Korean version of justice it does seem to be used largely against political opponents. However I would support the death penalty in the case of habitual criminals and repeat violent criminals but the standard of proof would have to be pretty high.

Response by COL Jean (John) F. B. made Mar 9 at 2016 2:58 PM

COL Jean (John) F. B. — Wed, 09 Mar 2016 14:58:08 -0500

PFC Alexander Oliveira The unborn baby is the victim of a murder, whereas a person condemned to death by the judicial system is a perpetrator of murder. However, even in the case of the death penalty, which I do support, I think it should only be adjudged in the most egregious cases and for which there is absolute proof of the guilt of the person sentenced to death.

Response by PO3 Steven Sherrill made Mar 9 at 2016 2:59 PM

PO3 Steven Sherrill — Wed, 09 Mar 2016 14:59:19 -0500

PFC Alexander Oliveira I think that neither issue is absolute. There are so many shades of grey. I believe in the death penalty. I believe that if a person is deemed to have no chance of being returned to a productive member of society, then that person should not be a burden to the taxpayer in prison. That person should be executed, close ranks, and see if you can save some of these people rather than institutionalizing them. Lets see if the money spent on these people can go to a more useful purpose. That being said, there are exceptions to that. Martyrs should be denied the death penalty. They should not be allowed to become a symbol to whatever cause they were hoping to be executed for. They should have their name stricken from the record so they are only a number. Then they should be locked in a hole until they die of natural causes. They should then be buried in a cheap pine box filled with pig entrails.
I have a far more nuanced picture of abortion. I think that it is a very personal and private decision. I think that in general the decision should involve the woman who is pregnant and her doctor. The only time that a man should have an opinion on abortion is when he is in a consenting relationship, and that leads to the pregnancy. I think that in the event of rape, incest, or minors that have been abused that it is something that should be completely up to the woman involved. I think that it would be far better to see a woman have an abortion than to see an unwanted child born into this world that will end up a ward of the state, abused, or killed after birth. So again it is such a nuanced issue that I will not say I have an absolute position other than, it is none of my business what a woman does with her uterus.

Response by Sgt Kelli Mays made Mar 9 at 2016 3:12 PM

Sgt Kelli Mays — Wed, 09 Mar 2016 15:12:54 -0500

I am pro life, but with limitations...Rape, incest...up to 6 weeks..... or something physically wrong with the fetus...I believe it should be the woman's perogotive ...but the death penalty!
If someone goes out and kills someone on purpose...set out to do it with a plan...did it ON PURPOSE.....then YES! Absolutely without a doubt they should get the death penalty.
If they did it during a robbery and the gun went off accidentally....then NO...they should be judged and sentenced.

Response by CAPT Gary Foster made Mar 9 at 2016 3:13 PM

CAPT Gary Foster — Wed, 09 Mar 2016 15:13:27 -0500

Interesting question. We have so watered down the idea behind capital punishment under the guise of everyone deserves a second or third chance, or the death penalty is cruel and inhumane. Capital punishment serves one purpose of providing a deterrent to those who find it easy to get away with senseless murder or other crimes deserving of capital punishment, and secondly provides the perpetrator with punishment well-deserved. It also helps the families of victims of senseless murders get a sense of vindication for their loss. Our lack of capital punishment leaves victims in anguish. You can forgive those who commit the crimes, but still seek justice for their acts. Maybe serial rapists should be classified in this category, which would fit into the following discussion.
On the abortion issue, I flat out disagree with this idea that a woman has the right to choose death for her unborn child and blow it off simply as a choice. I could see it in exceptional circumstances, such as if it was determined that the delivery of the baby would jeopardize the mother's life, or in cases of rape. But the real tragic side of abortion is that we have gotten to a place in our history where killing unborn children is an act of convenience to solve an unwanted situation that could have been prevented, especially with the amount of taxpayer dollars that our government has thrown into birth control. (I thought that was free. How is that working out for everyone?) We execute the unborn at a rate of roughly 2,900 daily in the US and consider it as just another day in the life of America. Yet we point the finger at other countries and accuse them of human rights violations. Maybe our sad sack education system could do a better job at teaching consequences for actions and deeds, personal responsibility, instead of promoting sexual activity. Everybody laughs at the abstinence idea. Well maybe keeping your pants zipped might just be an old fashioned idea that needs revisiting. While we are at it, we seem to reward young ladies for having more children, many by different fathers by throwing more welfare money at them. What every happened to deterrence?
Human life is not something to throw away. The building of a human being begins at conception, but this stupid argument that a fetus doesn't count as a human until it gets to be so many days old is a failure of an argument. If you ever baited a fish hook with an earthworm, you have see it squirm in pain. Maybe that's a simplified comparison but a fetus feels pain just the same. How can this be a humane procedure?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 9 at 2016 3:35 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 09 Mar 2016 15:35:02 -0500

It depends on how you arrived at being "pro-life" many who are pro-life are actually pro-life, many are also just anti-abortion for various reasons. If you are really pro-life because you believe in the sanctity of all life, you are probably going to be anti-death penalty. l

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 9 at 2016 3:36 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 09 Mar 2016 15:36:01 -0500

As someone who works in the corrections evnvironment, as well as the criminal justice community, I can say that I personally am a supporter of the death penalty. Dealing with many individuals in a maximum security setting you can see that many who have committed heinous crimes do not sympathize for what they have done, and have also openly admitted that if released they will go back to doing those same things. Many even commit the same if not more heinous crimes while incarcerated. There are those individuals who are past the point of rehabilitation, and will continuously be a threat to those in their communities. Rather than waste the money on these individuals the government should intervene and enforce the death penalty. Very simply put an eye for an eye. If an individual murders someone and it's proven with substantial evidence beyond a reasonable doubt, then that individual has forfeited their right to live. All this being said I do believe you can be both pro life and pro death penalty if chose to. Pro life deals with abortion and not criminals committing terrible crimes. You can easily feel that someone should not be allowed to deny a child life, at the same time as feeling that a criminal who has committed a crime deserves to die. Personally I am pro choice.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 9 at 2016 4:05 PM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 09 Mar 2016 16:05:56 -0500

As is said so many times in today's political world - depends on the definition.

In most cases people use pro-life to mean pro abortion.

But, if you want to expand it to include the death penalty, why not go all the way. Can ypu be pro-life and serve in the military? Can you accept suicide? etc etc.

I am pro-life in that I do not believe in taking a life without sound and thorough reason.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 9 at 2016 4:12 PM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 09 Mar 2016 16:12:45 -0500

Yes-Though I think a civilized society would take it for granted that when it comes to capital punishment, every case is different and should be judged as such.

Both end life. In the case of abortion, "punishment" doesn't factor in...pro-choice advocates offer a host of reasons from saving the life of the mother, to merely the right to "choose" the physical/life impact of parenthood. Ultimately, the death penalty is not about saving life, providing for choice, or meeting "convenience"...it's about deterring crimes that are worthy of death.

I could turn the question around-Why would anyone who would advocate aborting a child conceived in rape not argue for the death of the rapist? I think there are some people who, for whatever reason, simply don't support violence, even when necessary (I wouldn't expect to find any of those here, since our very profession is to meet out death-directly or indirectly)...but I think it mostly comes down to the fact that some persons want to challenge any code of society that imposes law. Ironically, they sometimes seem to want to use law to overturn it.

"The anarchist is a man who fears what he cannot control, yet clings to that which most controls him."
-Anon.

Response by MSgt James Mullis made Mar 9 at 2016 4:30 PM

MSgt James Mullis — Wed, 09 Mar 2016 16:30:36 -0500

Yes you can. Broken down to its simplest terms, a baby is by definition completely innocent; while a convicted felon is not. Everything else is willfully complicating the issue to serve an argument for either side.

Response by MCPO Roger Collins made Mar 9 at 2016 4:35 PM

MCPO Roger Collins — Wed, 09 Mar 2016 16:35:30 -0500

Darn, I am agreeing with the liberals, I must be wrong. :)

Response by CPT Pedro Meza made Mar 9 at 2016 4:46 PM

CPT Pedro Meza — Wed, 09 Mar 2016 16:46:38 -0500

Interesting to realize that majority of those on death row come from the lower economic levels, where healthcare and birth control is harder to come by, and good sex education in public school is fought, so is their a connection; yes I think there is.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 9 at 2016 4:56 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 09 Mar 2016 16:56:19 -0500

You are basing your comparison off of an impossible hypothetic. Realistically, those who commit crimes that warrant a death penalty sentencing are well into their life and have been given the opportunity to live in a peaceable and productive manner. Those who take life purely for the sake of taking life, knowing full well the penalty for doing so, simply reap the rewards of their own misdeeds. The same applies for those who commit crimes against children. However, on the flip-side of that, unborn children -- fetus and zygote alike -- have yet to be given the opportunity to form their own individuality, and likewise, have been afforded no opportunity to either abide by, or violate the laws that govern the nation. You asked if the opinion would remain the same if it could be know that the child would commit crime, but that is not a possibility. Evil begets evil, this is true, but most criminals that bear children, produce offspring that become productive and fruitful members of society. Personally, I am Pro-Choice. But your question certainly got my gears turning, so I gave the best response I could. I hope this helped.

Response by COL Jason Smallfield, PMP, CFM, CM made Mar 9 at 2016 5:43 PM

COL Jason Smallfield, PMP, CFM, CM — Wed, 09 Mar 2016 17:43:16 -0500

A few thoughts:
- BLUF: Yes a person can be pro life but also pro death penalty. These are not linked issues.
- Military justice is administered for the following reasons: punishment, rehabilitation, good order and discipline, and deterrence.
- The civilian justice system is administered for the same reasons but for good order and discipline.
- The death penalty should be a tool within a prosecutor's tool kit. Obviously if the death penalty is applied then rehabilitation is not an option. Punishment and deterrence are the primary considerations. Applying the death penalty (actual execution) more than 20+ years after the fact diminishes the deterrence value. This is an issue of administration (how death penalty is conducted), however, and not of theory (whether there should be a death penalty).
- Pro life, meanwhile, refers to not supporting abortion. The basic viewpoint is that defenseless people (including the unborn) should require the most protections from a society. The reasons for the administration of a civilian justice system (punishment, rehabilitation, deterrence) do not apply to the pro life argument unless one wants to argue that the unborn are guilty of the crime of being conceived.
- The basic arguments for pro abortion supporters is that 1. It is the woman's body and the woman's right to choose 2. The unborn are not people and therefore do not receive the rights of a person 3. Life begins at birth and not conception and that 4. Government has no right to dictate an individual's medical choices.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 9 at 2016 5:57 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 09 Mar 2016 17:57:28 -0500

You are making a minority report argument in the last part of you string of questions. It does not matter if it is known that the child would grow up to kill, it still has done nothing wrong yet and is not culpable.
I am pro-life. For many reasons, but the number one reason is that it took my wife and I many years to conceive our first child and we started looking at adoption and I know that there are a plethora of families out there trying to expand that would help to alleviate the massive number of abortions happening all the time.
I am also pro-death penalty, but I believe that the case has to be proven beyond the shadow of a doubt with DNA and numerous other quantifiable factors.

Response by SMSgt Thor Merich made Mar 9 at 2016 5:58 PM

SMSgt Thor Merich — Wed, 09 Mar 2016 17:58:50 -0500

The reason I am pro death penalty is because its the only way to guarantee that certain bad guys will never harm another person again. There are some very bad folks out there. Over the last 30 years, I dealt with a lot of them. There are many more bad folks out there then most people realize.

Its a good thing too, because if most folks knew, they would never leave their homes.

Response by BG David Fleming III made Mar 9 at 2016 6:26 PM

BG David Fleming III — Wed, 09 Mar 2016 18:26:31 -0500

If all life is precious, you can't be for the death penalty, in my humble oppinion!

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 9 at 2016 6:44 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 09 Mar 2016 18:44:26 -0500

I fail to see any contradiction between being anti abortion and pro death penalty. The argument that the two positions clash can only work when the distinction between murder and killing is completely blurred.

Response by SrA Matthew Knight made Mar 9 at 2016 7:35 PM

SrA Matthew Knight — Wed, 09 Mar 2016 19:35:54 -0500

I am pro life but not pro death penalty myself so I guess I am maybe it bit biased here.

My reasoning for being pro-life with a baby is that there are often other avenues that can be taken without terminating a life. Adoption is the biggest one, many people are incapable of birthing their own children, often due to medical reasons. In such cases adoption is one of the few ways that the individual or individuals can become parents if they want to have children. So carrying on the pregnancy can be alright in the end for both parties, the true mother will not be financially, physically, mentally, etc. burdened by having to raise a child that they didn't really want whereas someone who maybe couldn't have their own children is given the opportunity to still be a loving parent.

My reasoning for not being pro-death penalty comes down to two things really. The first is evidence and reasonable doubt. I have no doubt in my mind that the Justice system has executed people before who either didn't commit the crime or circumstances were just stacked against the person (I.E. a black man killing a white man in self defense in the 50s would probably be taken as a murder simply because of the race issues of the time). In such cases when the person may not be guilty or may be guilty of a lesser offense it isn't right to just condemn the person to die as it is a huge injustice to kill even one innocent man or woman for a crime they didn't commit. The second reason is my Christian beliefs. Now don't get me wrong, I know the Bible is full of killing, the old testament even has commandments punishable by death. However based on Christ's teaching it doesn't feel right to take the place of God and take another man's life. We are taught to forgive and love our enemies. That doesn't mean letting them walk free after committing a violent act but how much better are we than the criminal if we turn around and do the same thing to them?

That's my opinion on both subjects.

Now I think what you are getting at if I am not mistaken is the fact that much of the Bible belt, especially southern states do carry out the death penalty and many Conservative Christians are pro-life when it comes to abortion but pro-death penalty when it comes to Criminal Justice. My only answer for that is basically what you said, the child is innocent, incapable of committing a violent act whereas a grown adult who has been condemned to death has made their life choice to murder (or whatever they may have done).

Response by Capt Walter Miller made Mar 9 at 2016 7:54 PM

Capt Walter Miller — Wed, 09 Mar 2016 19:54:09 -0500

Todd Willingham.

http://camerontoddwillingham.com/

Cameron Todd Willingham - Innocent and Executed

"The only statement I want to make is that I am an innocent man convicted of a crime I did not commit."

Response by Capt Mark Strobl made Mar 9 at 2016 8:00 PM

Capt Mark Strobl — Wed, 09 Mar 2016 20:00:23 -0500

PFC Alexander Oliveira - To know one is going to grow up to become a killer... and execute them before they actually do the crime This is exactly the them of "The Minority Report" (Tom Cruise flick of 2002). Very dangerous thinking --as suggested by the movie. But to your question...
I think one could be pro-life AND pro-execution. However, I'd guess most pro-life folks are pro-life throughout: If one is opposed to abortion (killing), it would make sense that they're similarly opposed to execution (killing). Yet, I think it totally plausible to be anti-abortion yet still support executions. 20-yrs ago I supported pro-choice and executions. Today, I cannot.

Response by A1C Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 9 at 2016 8:17 PM

A1C Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 09 Mar 2016 20:17:44 -0500

You said it. A child has done nothing wrong so if you kill him or her in the eyes of GOD you have committed murder. Where as the death penalty is only given out if you have taken an innocent life. It is pretty simple.

Response by PO3 David Miller made Mar 9 at 2016 9:08 PM

PO3 David Miller — Wed, 09 Mar 2016 21:08:35 -0500

I am pro-life because I believe life does begin at conception. You are taking a human life, and yes, that baby has done no wrong in the legal systems eyes- plan and simple- it is murder. The death penalty is a tool for those who have committed a serious crime. One is always accountable for the actions they take in life.

Response by PO2 Nick Burke made Mar 9 at 2016 9:20 PM

PO2 Nick Burke — Wed, 09 Mar 2016 21:20:51 -0500

Yes you can. The unborn are innocent and deserve a chance to live and thrive. Those sentenced to death have made violent destructive choices as adults.
Now here is a question for you....Why is abortion OK yet when someone kills a pregnant women they are charged with both murders? When just the unborn dies, why are they charged with the child's murder?

Response by SFC Michael L. made Mar 9 at 2016 9:21 PM

SFC Michael L. — Wed, 09 Mar 2016 21:21:24 -0500

Can you be a liberal soldier? Of course, knowing someone deserves a punishment is the only question. A foetus has not committed any sin whereas the violent criminal has.

Response by Maj John Bell made Mar 9 at 2016 9:26 PM

Maj John Bell — Wed, 09 Mar 2016 21:26:33 -0500

I'm not trying to be funny when I say this. There is no requirement for two strongly held beliefs of mine to be consistent in someone else's opinion. For that matter, they do not have to be consistent in my own opinion.

Personally, I believe everyone is pro-life. We disagree on what constitutes life. I do not believe any sane pro-choicer would argue that it is justified for a mother to look at a six day old baby and say "I don't want it. terminate it". There comes some point where we all say it is no longer a valid choice. I also do not believe any sane pro-lifer would advocate killing abortion providers. That kind of thinking could then would be contorted to justify killing the state prison executioners and military personnel.

I am in favor of the death penalty, on principle. But I have some serious concerns about it in practice.
I believe that it does nothing to deter crime, that doesn't bother me, some animals do not deserve to live. I believe that in some cases it may encourage some people to ensure no witnesses are left behind, but a life sentence probably does the same. It bothers me that lower income people cannot afford the best representation, and thus are sentenced to death disproportionately. It bothers me that there have been people sentenced to death, that have been definitively proven innocent at a later date. It bothers me that it costs more to execute a person than to incarcerate them for the rest of their lives. I do not know the answers to any of these concerns. But, I'm still in favor of the death penalty.

Finally, innocent or not, if I was sentenced to life in prison, I would prefer death.

Response by MSgt Peter Vatistas made Mar 9 at 2016 9:53 PM

MSgt Peter Vatistas — Wed, 09 Mar 2016 21:53:02 -0500

Ridiculous and perverse.
Baby: Innocent.
Person who committed a capital crime: Guilty.
Ability to know if an unborn child is going to grow up to be a murderer: To idiotic of a notion to even comment on.

Response by MSgt Peter Vatistas made Mar 9 at 2016 9:57 PM

MSgt Peter Vatistas — Wed, 09 Mar 2016 21:57:46 -0500

The ONLY problem with the death penalty is that it is punishing the family of the guilty person a LOT more than the guilty person himself.

Response by SSgt David Tedrow made Mar 9 at 2016 10:38 PM

SSgt David Tedrow — Wed, 09 Mar 2016 22:38:20 -0500

Of course you can, it's called freedom of thought and freedom to use common sense. To many people think they have to be for something. There is nothing that states you have to pick a stance and stand by it 100%. Times change, circumstances change, minds change. If people would be a bit more flexible in their own minds it sure would help.

Response by SPC James Dollins made Mar 9 at 2016 10:40 PM

SPC James Dollins — Wed, 09 Mar 2016 22:40:46 -0500

I think you absolutely can!

Response by Cpl Terry Williams made Mar 10 at 2016 12:06 AM

Cpl Terry Williams — Thu, 10 Mar 2016 00:06:09 -0500

Your protect the innocent, not the evil, you kill the demon, which may in turn kill the possessed.

Response by PO1 Kerry French made Mar 10 at 2016 12:07 AM

PO1 Kerry French — Thu, 10 Mar 2016 00:07:30 -0500

Absolutely. I'm pro-life but on the pro death penalty, I would like to see conclusive evidence used for that kind of ruling... so NO death penalty where there is only circumstantial or eye witness evidence as those both are wrong so many times. Conclusive forensic evidence must be used to prove a person committed the crime - otherwise I am ok with warehousing them for life. I'm not against the death penalty but in my opinion, we need to absolutely prove a person committed a crime.

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Mar 10 at 2016 1:10 AM

CAPT Kevin B. — Thu, 10 Mar 2016 01:10:13 -0500

There's a difference between killing the innocent and killing the guilty. Our MIL training does have an aspect of protecting the innocent, hence over time see one as a tragedy and the other as a justice.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 10 at 2016 3:05 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 10 Mar 2016 03:05:20 -0500

I would have been in favor of Hitler, Stalin, Mao and Kim Jung Jr. Being aborted. I am in favor of the death penalty just like I am in favor of euthenizing RABID dogs. I love dogs that do not bite and can live in society. All appeals for death sentences should be limited to three years. Very few criminals have been unjustifiable executed. I believe myself to be a Christian conservative Constitutionalist patriot.

Response by Capt Jeff S. made Mar 10 at 2016 3:25 AM

Capt Jeff S. — Thu, 10 Mar 2016 03:25:09 -0500

Is there a conflict?

Response by SSgt Jim Gilmore made Mar 10 at 2016 3:33 AM

SSgt Jim Gilmore — Thu, 10 Mar 2016 03:33:09 -0500

Yes, Abortion is the taking of an innocent life in most cases by one with no understanding of the consequences of their actions. The death penalty is the taking of a guilty person's life...a person who consciously decided to violate the law rather than abide by it. There is a big difference.

Response by SSG Trevor S. made Mar 10 at 2016 5:12 AM

SSG Trevor S. — Thu, 10 Mar 2016 05:12:55 -0500

Im actually opposed to both, but for the sake of ectreme cases like where an imate commited murder in connection with treason. Still, for tge sake of argurment: An infant has done nothing and is by definition innocent. A convict has their chance in the world and earned a punishment.

Response by Sgt Tom Cunnally made Mar 10 at 2016 6:20 AM

Sgt Tom Cunnally — Thu, 10 Mar 2016 06:20:32 -0500

I'm Pro Life & Pro Death penalty I will gladly pull the switch to execute the Islamic Terrorist who with his brother planted two bombs near the finish line of our Boston Marathon a few years ago. And I was hoping the POS Whitey Bolger got the death penalty but his little brother worked behind scenes to keep him out of the electric chair.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 10 at 2016 12:30 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 10 Mar 2016 12:30:01 -0500

Yup.
The individual condemned to death through a fair trial and a jury of his peers deserves very much what he gets.
The unborn child did nothing to deserve his/her fate.

Response by CAPT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 10 at 2016 3:09 PM

CAPT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 10 Mar 2016 15:09:33 -0500

The unborn child is innocent. That's it! The innocent should not pay the ultimate price due to the sins of the father/mother. What kind of a society believes that is correct? For convenience and/or political gain? Rather self-centered. On the other hand a convicted murderer is the perpetrator of a crime and society decides what the punishment should be. I for one, as I get older and realize how wrong our judicial system often is with plea bargains, etc. now question the validity of capital punishment. I would rather see 9 guilty go free than wrongly put to death an innocent man. Again, what kind of a society does that. We, as men, as societies, as systems of government, often get it wrong and I don't want to be a part of that. The Lord says that revenge is his. Our capital punishment law should not be a revenge law but rather a law to make our society safer and more just. I don't believe capital punishment accomplishes either of those. Life imprisonment is enough.

Response by SSgt Christopher Brose made Mar 11 at 2016 5:39 AM

SSgt Christopher Brose — Fri, 11 Mar 2016 05:39:15 -0500

Absolutely, it is possible to be pro-life and pro-death-penalty. The key is the concept of guilt and innocence.

All people convicted of capital crimes experience something their victims did not experience, something called "due process." It means they got to present their defense to a jury of their peers (usually more than once), who then decided their guilt. After the "black lives matter" mess, there was "all lives matter" -- but I don't agree with that. For me personally, if someone intends to make a victim of someone else, the would-be victimizer's life just doesn't matter much to me.

Unborn babies, on the other hand, are as innocent as it is possible to be on this planet.

Going back to slavery -- the thing that made slavery possible is that one group of human beings decided that another group of human beings was something less than fully human, or that they were simply undeserving of human rights, allowing the first group to do unimaginable things to the second group. The exact same thing makes abortion possible. It is inherently evil.

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This doctor has performed over 1,200 abortions. Now, he's revealing what actually happens during a second trimester abortion procedure. This video may...

Response by 1LT Aaron Barr made Apr 4 at 2016 9:40 AM

1LT Aaron Barr — Mon, 04 Apr 2016 09:40:15 -0400

Yes, very easily. I believe that the purpose of the Justice System is to dispense Justice. I further believe that there are some crimes so severe that a sentence of death is just. That said, I can think of no crime an unborn child can commit at all, let alone one for which a sentence of death would be just.

Response by LCDR Rabbah Rona Matlow made Apr 5 at 2016 11:10 AM

LCDR Rabbah Rona Matlow — Tue, 05 Apr 2016 11:10:05 -0400

It is definitely a logical disconnect... but "Pro Lifers" have no problem killing abortion doctors, so that should tell you something...