Can you be ordered to buy a cellphone and keep it on and with you at all times?

2016-09-11T20:54:49-04:00

This is a several part question.

1. Can you be ordered to buy a cell phone? Had a shipmate who lived "off the grid" as much as possible. He was ordered to buy a cell phone for "recall" purposes. He fought it, but ultimately lost. He had to pay with his own funds. He purchased the most basic cell phone available.

2. Can you be ordered to keep your cellphone ON and with you "at all times". More specifically, can you expect service-members to sleep with their cellphone ON or not on silent/vibrate while they sleep (assuming they are not at a deployable command or in a foreign country).

Are either of these expectations acceptable?

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 11 at 2016 9:58 PM

2016-09-11T21:58:23-04:00

The Navy can be a tricky place to live. Is he on special duty of some kind that required communication? Did he not have a land line?

Response by SSgt Dan Montague made Sep 11 at 2016 10:18 PM

2016-09-11T22:18:21-04:00

You must have a means of communication if you live off of base. A land line is good enough. They can however order you to carry a cell phone 24/7 IF it is provided for you.

Second part of this question, yes. The command or your troops need to be able to get a hold of you 24/7.
I received many calls from the command or my Marines in the middle of the night. Most because of DUI's,
but there were deaths, attempted suicides, Marines trapped someplace, the list goes on. just because we are not deployed doesn't mean we are just a 6-5 business M-F

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 11 at 2016 10:59 PM

2016-09-11T22:59:36-04:00

So the "balloon goes up", your unit is on alert and they need to call everyone in with all their gear ... Oh, that's a shame Snuffy couldn't be reached because he doesn't have a phone. Well, spin up the Article 15 machine for Missing Movement and I guess Snuff has to move in the barracks then.

Response by SN Greg Wright made Sep 11 at 2016 11:42 PM

2016-09-11T23:42:52-04:00

Neither situation is legal. Sounds like you have a hot rod running that situation. I'll illustrate with a tangential, slightly-caveman (to you youngsters) example. My ship was in the Philippines for a port visit, and I was ashore. A typhoon was coming in, and a general recall was issued, mostly by word of mouth (meaning, they sent Shore Patrol into town to round people up), because back then cell phones weren't prolific. By time I heard it, and headed back, the ship had left. I missed movement along with about 7 others. As every Sailor knows, missing movement is a huge deal, and a guaranteed trip to Mast. Guess how much trouble we got into? Zilch. The command made a good-faith effort to recall me, and I made a good-faith effort to get back. It just didn't work. That's the reality the CoC has to deal with: sometimes you just can't get a hold of everyone the very moment you need to.

Response by SFC George Smith made Sep 12 at 2016 12:09 AM

2016-09-12T00:09:50-04:00

never heard that one ... We were given Pagers by the command and Later Cellphones as needed...

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 12 at 2016 2:58 AM

2016-09-12T02:58:14-04:00

Things to consider when answering this question:
1. What does regulation actually says?
2. Have you personally had the experience of being ordered to acquire a cell phone?
3. Have you ever ordered someone to get one?
4. If yes on 2 or 3, on what authority was it ordered and required?

Response by SGT David T. made Sep 12 at 2016 8:06 AM

2016-09-12T08:06:55-04:00

The government has a ton of contracts with cellular providers. If it is really that serious for him to be on call all the time, then they need to provide him one.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Sep 12 at 2016 9:37 AM

2016-09-12T09:37:24-04:00

Its a choice.
Don't leave the immediate area or provide a way to be contacted.
The unit has requirement to house and feed you if you choose the former. The SM has a requirement to provide the method of contact if they choose the latter

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 12 at 2016 1:13 PM

2016-09-12T13:13:12-04:00

Uh NO!

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 12 at 2016 1:32 PM

2016-09-12T13:32:10-04:00

PO2, After reading some of your comments I have the back ground and would say that you have some questionable Leaders and COC. The answer tot both is NO an no. I have been at commands that made leadership and key billets get Command paid Cell phones and these were 100 % recall Operational on call units, to be deployed with in 24 hrs or start the deployment process meaning 100 % recall and inspection of all personnel and then start restrictions of liberty and placing a distance for them to be during the on call alert statues to be ready to deploy. We did not issue phones or require cell phones for the troops and non key personnel, just needed a recall. Those that fell under key jobs and were identified by command that needed on call phones had ti sign a PG13 saying they know they need to use phone and will return all calls with in a time frame. The rest of the units were told and signed a PG13 that they will stay within a certain distance in non alert times and recall statues.

I would talk to your Chief, if that does not work then talk to Command Master Chief. I would be willing to bet that your CO and Command Master Chief do not know you are getting phone calls after your on duty time, and if he or she knew it would be a NO GO. You are at a non deploy-able shore duty, and should not require a 100% alert recall. I would also ask are you and, your command listed as essential personnel,as in if you go to a delta FPCON or disaster recovery situation, on your base and required to be there when in that FPCON or emergency recovery status, and if the answer is NO, they can not make you have a cell phone.

Bottom line if they did not make you sign a PG13 saying you are on recall duty and or need 100% contact then they can not call you 24/7.

Response by SGT Tony Clifford made Sep 12 at 2016 3:02 PM

2016-09-12T15:02:45-04:00

There are a lot of people who fail to understand that there needs to be a means of contact for anyone not living in the barracks. As a matter of fact, I wasn't allowed to leave the barracks and go into town until I had a phone. It's really simple. You are a soldier, airman, marine or sailor 24/7. You can be recalled to work at anytime, and believe me I have been. This whole not in regs thing is cute until you miss movement and get royally fucked.

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 12 at 2016 3:19 PM

2016-09-12T15:19:50-04:00

On the First count as many others have stated, So long as you have A recall number that you can be reached at with in a 24 hour or by next duty day then no they can not force you to have a cell phone. How having a land line and not a cell phone is off the grid I have no idea. If he did not have a land line then yes the command can say get a phone (land or other) or move back on the Ship / Base.

To the Second question: If I am not on duty or in a recall status due to current mission, how I sleep is no ones business. If I had a CoC that wanted to call me randomly in the middle of the night for no good or drill reasons, they would learn what languages I speak and discover some new choice words / phrases.

All that aside I have yet to be in a command that would have / allow that level of tom foolery. Everywhere I have been they have respected peoples limited down time and only called them for express emergency's.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 12 at 2016 3:58 PM

2016-09-12T15:58:14-04:00

I was told to get one I told command you paying for it. Never heard it again

Response by SPC Roger Giffen made Sep 12 at 2016 4:32 PM

2016-09-12T16:32:48-04:00

My opinion, but the Army wanted me to have a cell phone, they would have issued me one. So happy I was in pre cell phone

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Sep 12 at 2016 4:42 PM

2016-09-12T16:42:40-04:00

All service members must have a means of recall notification. Otherwise they could be carried AWOL, which is worse?

Response by SGT Alicia Brenneis made Sep 12 at 2016 5:58 PM

2016-09-12T17:58:00-04:00

A cell phone is a device of convenience. If the soldier lives in the baricks and does not have a cell phone, call CQ and send a runner to Their room. On post, send an MP or runner there. If they live off post and it is that big a deal, You should have a strip map or address you can use to find their house in their personal records/ counseling packet. You can not force a soldier to have an "extra" expense. If his lights get turned off, what are you going to say when he tells command "I had to pay the cell phone bill you made me get?"

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 12 at 2016 6:00 PM

2016-09-12T18:00:16-04:00

No.... Just move him into the barracks

Response by Sgt Brian Converse made Sep 12 at 2016 6:48 PM

2016-09-12T18:48:33-04:00

This question is not specific, was this sailor assigned to a ship? If this is the case living ashore is at the discretion of the CO. If he was at a shore command he would be in a barracks unless he was married and base housing was not an option and your command still can require you to have a landline if your living off base for recall. Remember living off Base is not a right it's a privilege you are in the Military it's not a civilian job, you are a Sailor, Marine, Soldier, Airman 24/7 365 days until your Enlistmant is up, and leave is a privilege not a right. That's just the way I see it.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 12 at 2016 7:56 PM

2016-09-12T19:56:39-04:00

You cannot order somebody to buy a cell phone BUT you can require them to check in every two hours, hour, 30 minutes, and let them make the decision! ALSO, you cannot tell them to sleep with it on BUT the first time you cannot get in contact with them, you can have them sign in at the duty desk every two hours, hour or 30 minutes, between the hours of 0600 and 2100 or 2200, Monday to Monday!
Try it and see how fast you get willful compliance!
NOTE: prior to doing these extreme measures, run your plan past the local Inspector Generals office, to fine tune your plan! It is legal and has to be in writing and pass the cause and effect test.

Response by TSgt Scott Hurley made Sep 12 at 2016 10:53 PM

2016-09-12T22:53:38-04:00

If it is crucial to be able to get a hold of the individual then yes. They should have a phone. Today more and more people have ditched the landline and have gotten cell phones. Now your friend being in the service should not be going off grid in case that one time the horn sounds and no one can get a hold of them by phone.

Now here is how the recall system works. This how its supposed to work, but we all know that it never works the way its supposed to.

Phone recall is a pyramid where the one farthest from base is called and they call the next person in the pyramid. If they do not get a hold of them, then they move to the next person. Each person is called by the person in the chain until all people are called and then the last person contacted is to call the section they are assigned to report that everyone was contact and if anyone was not able to be contacted. The person that is usually the closet to the the one that was not contacted before heading in is supposed to go the persons house to contact them that way. The only exception to this is if they are on leave. In which case, the leave contact number would be the recall number.

Now anyone without a phone is supposed to be contacted by people going to where they live. In this persons case I bet they move around trying to stay off the grid.

If you are in the service you are supposed leave your phone on all the time so you can be contacted. Especially if you do not have a landline. And it better be next to your bed and not on vibrate.

Response by SGT Jerrold Pesz made Sep 12 at 2016 11:54 PM

2016-09-12T23:54:22-04:00

Not a problem in my day. There was no such thing as a cell phone. lol

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 13 at 2016 2:04 AM

2016-09-13T02:04:21-04:00

Don't buy a cell phone. Just check in every hour for a couple days straight and I promise the guy on the other end will buy you a cell phone. You will not be popular.

Response by CPT Earl George made Sep 13 at 2016 7:30 AM

2016-09-13T07:30:53-04:00

Had something like this in Germany in the early 70's. We had a soldier with a German girlfriend. He spent all his "off duty"" time with her. He was forced to maintain a bunk in the barracks and be aware of when he was to be in the company area (to include changes in schedule). he eventually had to "move" back into the barracks because he was not around for several alerts and other things.

Response by CPO Randy Francis made Sep 13 at 2016 8:04 AM

2016-09-13T08:04:46-04:00

I seem to remember back in the day when even guys who lived in the barracks were "off the grid". They'd go out, get drunk on Friday night, find some girl, and be unreachable all weekend. OIC can't order you to get a cell phone.

Response by Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen made Sep 13 at 2016 9:13 AM

2016-09-13T09:13:24-04:00

Oh what has technology wrought? Got to have a cell phone so your unit can contact you, you have got to be kidding me. How on earth did the military survive before cell phones were invented? Guess everyone must have been required to camp in the commanders front yard back in the old days!
Can you believe that when there was a recall we actually had individuals designated as runners whose assignment was to go downtown and contact individuals who didn't have a phone contact # or had not answered the initial call?
As for having to be in 24/7 contact, if your position/job required it the government provided the means to stay in constant contact. Unit provided a pager or beeper when they came around and before that you had to call base, say you were leaving quarters & give contact #. When you arrived you had to call base and confirm contact #, oh and if you were going to multiple places you had to repeat process each time.
I know, I'm a dinosaur from the age of carbon paper, hand written memos and face to face meetings! Point is the procedures were there and worked for hundreds of years before cell phones came around. Time to reinvent the wheel I guess.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 13 at 2016 10:43 AM

2016-09-13T10:43:57-04:00

They need a reliable way to reach him. It could be a landline. The old solution when we didn't have cell phones and a person refused to have a phone (landline) they were moved into the barracks. Once they had a reliable form of communication they could move out. So a landline would have met the same standard. I doubt the requirement was to have a cell phone but rather a form of communications.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 13 at 2016 10:48 AM

2016-09-13T10:48:15-04:00

Living off base or off the installation is a privilege. One basic requirement was the need to have a reliable way to reach him. It could be a landline. The old solution when we didn't have cell phones and a person refused to have a phone (landline) they were moved into the barracks. Once they had a reliable form of communication they could move out. So a landline would have met the same standard. I doubt the requirement was to have a cell phone but rather a form of communications. This issues typically came up when people would refuse to come back in and they used the lack of communication as an excuse not to follow an order or respond to a recall.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 13 at 2016 11:01 AM

2016-09-13T11:01:05-04:00

maybe not but how is your team leader supposed to ever get a hold of you incase of a disaster or emergency formation or something like that, its 2016 and by now we all should have one.

Response by Sgt Tammy Wallace made Sep 13 at 2016 1:20 PM

2016-09-13T13:20:36-04:00

no.

Response by SFC J Fullerton made Sep 13 at 2016 1:48 PM

2016-09-13T13:48:15-04:00

As others have said. No, you can't be ordered to purchase a cell phone. However, to live off post either married or single, you have to have a means to be contacted. If you and your unit are on DRF on a 2 hour recall status, or some other stand-by status, then you need to be able to be contacted fast enough to report within the given time frame. Whether you keep the cell phone on you 24/7, sit by the landline 24/7, or stay in the barracks, that's up to you, but your ass better be in the recall formation on time.

Response by SSG Stephan Pendarvis made Sep 13 at 2016 3:36 PM

2016-09-13T15:36:54-04:00

Some Military like to have the clout and benefits of being just that...but do not want to play all the games that are required. So it seems that they play military on their terms at times. I think that they should be required to be contacted at a moments notice. That is what they gave their rights up for. What your country calls.....pick up the damn phone!!

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Sep 13 at 2016 10:19 PM

2016-09-13T22:19:02-04:00

Legally I do not think anyone can make you buy anything unless owed to someone else or the government. I had to fight the phone issue too when personal cell phones in Korea in 2001 were on the expensive side. It was highly encourage to do so in the event I was recalled. So I purchased a highly used cell phone from another service member and I charge it once a month. Now keeping it charge up with power was a different issue.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 13 at 2016 10:53 PM

2016-09-13T22:53:23-04:00

You should not be able to be forced to have a cell phone. If the command requires one on you at all times, then they should provide it.

Response by CPT Douglas Griffith made Sep 13 at 2016 10:54 PM

2016-09-13T22:54:52-04:00

I'll give that one a HELL NO.
Can't tell me how to spend my money

Response by Capt Michael Halpin made Sep 13 at 2016 11:00 PM

2016-09-13T23:00:02-04:00

In my time, yes to both. If you lived off base you had to provide a way for your command to reach you. Seems like a reasonable order. The military is not a civilian 8-5 job. You are on duty 24/7/365!

Response by SFC Pete Kain made Sep 14 at 2016 10:19 AM

2016-09-14T10:19:26-04:00

Buy it, have a land line or move back into the barracks. Geeze this is not rocket science folks. The Chain of Command needs to be able to contact you, The world is not a safe place and stuff happens.
Or at least it used to be looked at way. Now.....everybody wants to a barracks lawyer. SMH

Response by MSgt George Platzer made Sep 14 at 2016 3:01 PM

2016-09-14T15:01:58-04:00

Check your regulations. This would be the "get out of jail, free" card.
The recall roster should have a home address as well as the phone number. The home address is there for comm out recalls. In the event that someone can't be reached, a runner should be sent. In the event of a major disaster, the communication lines would probably be rendered useless.

Response by GySgt Kenneth Pepper made Sep 14 at 2016 3:26 PM

2016-09-14T15:26:35-04:00

Damn there are tons of sea lawyers in here. Where can I put my briefcase?

No they can't make you buy a cellphone but they can make have some means of recall if you are in a position that requires short term reaction to a call-in. It's part of the job that pays your bills.
No they can't make you be on call 24/7. However, if you are in a leadership position where you have troops in your charge you should make yourself available. If you need to "go off the grid" for short periods, delegate. Again, it's part of the job.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 14 at 2016 4:33 PM

2016-09-14T16:33:34-04:00

I remember when I put on E-5, this was my first learning experience. We had a recall and an Amn couldn't be reached. I tried telling him he needed to get a phone so we could reach him. My MSgt pulled me aside and explained to me that just because we are on call 24/7 we can't make someone get a phone. After the session I understood, I apologized to the AMN. I just didn't know how to handle it because he was told a recall was happening and to be reachable, but was unreachable at his room or landline so just took the heat of not being able to account for everyone, but he got off free and clear.

Response by ENS Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 14 at 2016 4:55 PM

2016-09-14T16:55:30-04:00

It's tough when you go to reach someone and are unable to, however if they are not on duty then we need to respect their liberty as much as possible. This is something that has definitely been infringed upon in some cases. Now, I now some argue that you're on duty 24/7/365 - but I disagree. Without coming off the wrong way, show me that in writing. You are a service member who falls under the UCMJ 24/7/365, however there are liberty hours for a reason. If the military decided everyone is on duty 24/7/365 then we should all be recalled and ordered to stay at work until we get out. Not happening. There are, of course, few exceptions where immediate contact is required- deployable units, foreign countries, executive comms teams, etc. However, if you are not at a deployable command, your recall time is usually 24 hours.. With that being said, there are few things more frustrating than needing to get ahold of someone and not being able to.. But we cannot and should not punish reprimand someone because they were not immediately available at our whim..

People are our #1 Asset - above all else. It is the responsibility of our Senior Leadership to ensure that operational requirements are met and staffed appropriately. It is also their responsibility to ensure this is coordinated well in advanced, as to ensure our people are being treated fairly and that morale remains at an acceptable level. In most cases there is no reason to interrupt a service member's liberty time (especially with family), unless there is an actual emergency. Calling a service member to ask them about an event next week or ask them if they completed this month's safety training are inexcusable reasons to interrupt them. Were I to find out that my people were guilty of doing this, I'd bring them in, reiterate my expectations, and require approval from myself prior to calling anyone on their liberty time.

Capt Michael Halpin (I'd like to know your opinion on my response, Sir. Thank you for your time, as always.)

Response by TSgt Mark Olson made Sep 15 at 2016 10:39 AM

2016-09-15T10:39:54-04:00

Of course, you can't be forced to get a cell phone, these questions are kind of ridiculous. Recalls have a process, first: cell phone, second: home phone, third: go in person to the persons home and collect them. It's been this way for years, why doesn't anyone know this? I never gave out my cell phone while I was active. If they require it, because your designated as essential personnel, they provide you a phone. Resolution: get rid of your phone and go to the legal office/ADC to get guidance on how to handle your bosses, and then file an IG complaint. Easy stuff.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 15 at 2016 6:34 PM

2016-09-15T18:34:35-04:00

1) No, you cannot force anyone to buy a cell phone. I personally have refused that order/directive before because I was saving money at the time. Since the Army did not issue me any sort of communication device, they cannot hold me accountable for having one. That being said, they do need someway of contacting me immediately.

2) If the soldier in question was told beforehand to be ready for a recall or alert, and then did not answer their phone, then they may face some sort of adverse action. A unit needs to be able to convey an urgent message all of its member immediately, and the fastest way is normally by cell-phone followed by landline. Personnel in the barracks are a lot easier to get in contact with, but those individuals in housing or off post need some sort of line of communication so that their leadership can reach them. Not answering the call is means that the soldier was not doing their job. We're on duty 24/7, no matter what.

Response by GySgt Ed Gartland made Sep 15 at 2016 7:23 PM

2016-09-15T19:23:50-04:00

During 1962 and 64 I was stationed at NavComStaPhil approx 30 kms north of Subic Bay. Overnight liberty was not permitted unless we had a signed overnight chit authorizing overnight in Manila or Clark AFB. Most of us used our overnight to stay in San Miguel, a local village just outside the base gates. In early 64 we received a new Bird Colonel C.O. He quickly laid down the law to us. As I recall it, he announced "I don't care where your overnights are but I better be able to collect you within one hour any time it hits the fan ." On the night of the Gulf of Tonkin incident, he drove up to the gate after midnight and ordered the guards to open the gate. The guard asked where he was going. Manila he answered (a 4 hr drive!!!). Approx 45 minutes later he returned with a dozen or so Marines hanging all over the C.O.'s jeep. The guard asked where he had been. "Manila" he growled. The guard didn't know what to do! With a few more growls he told the guard to unlock the gate and log his trip to "Manila". Who needs a cell phone when you've got a C.O. with cojonex?

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 16 at 2016 1:13 PM

2016-09-16T13:13:13-04:00

WoW! Allott changed since I retired in 99. I guess we've downsized so much no one can drink on the weekends or go fishing. you can call me if you really need an experienced hand that bad.

Response by COL Mikel J. Burroughs made Nov 14 at 2016 12:19 PM

2016-11-14T12:19:23-05:00

ENS Private RallyPoint Member Ordering a service member to incur an expense is totally against ethical leadership and if it is happening then it needs to be reported to the IG immediately. No one can force a service member to incur expenses in the conduct of their official duties. The Government has cell phone they can issue for these purposes. I had one issued as a Brigade Commander and Battalion Commender and during deployment (with Global capabilities) at the Government's expense, not mine. Keep in mind that if your issued one, its for official business only. If it isn't said, it isn't heard - my old motto!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 14 at 2016 7:10 PM

2016-11-14T19:10:47-05:00

Question I would have is this: if civilian clothes, non-duty days, and liberty/leave are at the commander's discretion, can the sailor just be told "No you can't leave the ship", "no you can't go on leave there", or "no, you cannot live off-post"? Being reasonable is a two-way road. He wants to serve but also be untraceable and off the grid? Good luck with that. The NCOs have to be reasonable yet firm on issues like this otherwise there will be more dumb rules. Good idea fairies come from poor analyzing of situations that require brains and a mind for reasonable compromise.

Response by SFC George Smith made Nov 14 at 2016 7:31 PM

2016-11-14T19:31:28-05:00

in the early 90's we had pagers issued to key folks
and when the cell phones came out folks were again issued as need in the command...
I dont think they can order you to procure something they are not willing to compensate you fore...