Can the VA institutionalize me against my will?

CPT Joseph K Murdock — Fri, 08 Jul 2016 11:40:45 -0400

I took a test that showed my depression and anxiety had sky rocketed. Now there are rumblings from the VA of a possible stay at an in-patient clinic. This scares the hell out of me. Can they do that?

Response by TSgt David L. made Jul 8 at 2016 11:50 AM

TSgt David L. — Fri, 08 Jul 2016 11:50:26 -0400

I don't think so, but who knows. The VA has been known to overstep their bounds. I hope you aren't a firearm owner...

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made Jul 8 at 2016 1:29 PM

PO1 William "Chip" Nagel — Fri, 08 Jul 2016 13:29:16 -0400

That doesn't sound good and kind of blows but I don't think they can Institutionalize you against your will just because you are depressed. They can recommend it to you but I think the Benchmark is that you are a clear threat to yourself or others and just because you are depressed doesn't make you a threat.

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 8 at 2016 2:08 PM

SCPO Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 08 Jul 2016 14:08:19 -0400

Absolutely not. Not even a doubt.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Jul 8 at 2016 3:39 PM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Fri, 08 Jul 2016 15:39:20 -0400

I do not truly know and I am sure you can contact the hospital liaison. I have to say, why would you not accept help is they are offering. We hear every day about Vets not being able to get help or treatment-if you need it, get it!

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 8 at 2016 4:31 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 08 Jul 2016 16:31:22 -0400

cpt had a good friend vietnam seal vet, while i was serving in iraq, he had a melt down, was put in va hosp buf ny for 3 months, i dont know the whole story, but it happened, good luck cpt wish the best

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Jul 8 at 2016 4:57 PM

LTC Paul Labrador — Fri, 08 Jul 2016 16:57:48 -0400

No one can institutionalize you against your will without a court order. The police can do it temporarily if there is an immediate threat to safety, but they will still have to get a court order to make it stick.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 8 at 2016 5:59 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 08 Jul 2016 17:59:30 -0400

AS far as I know from a medical perspective they cannot forcibly institutionalize someone unless they are a danger to themselves or others.

Response by CPT Mark Gonzalez made Jul 8 at 2016 6:34 PM

CPT Mark Gonzalez — Fri, 08 Jul 2016 18:34:29 -0400

It will require a court order and involuntary psychiatric admissions do occur. If may be a good thing in the long run if it means you are able to get more dedicated help and a reset.

Response by Capt Tom Brown made Jul 8 at 2016 10:04 PM

Capt Tom Brown — Fri, 08 Jul 2016 22:04:51 -0400

CPT Joseph K Murdock Are you on any type of meds which do any good or help at all? Meds have helped me for many years when the talking drs and good-time support groups didn't.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 9 at 2016 1:03 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 09 Jul 2016 13:03:21 -0400

mental health hygiene laws, in civi world it does happen, if drugs and alcohol are a problem family members can call police, especially if there is mental health issues attached, and harm to others or self is suspected, in my time working in er it did happen not often but it did and a few were vets, it was sad then and still is. if its depresion/anxiety i would think that your 2nd is good, you just need better or diferent meds, on the other hand psychotic well thats whole different world of shit. cpt i have thought of you as as mentor, you went thru your own hell, and came back you can make it thru this, when i went thru it at first i had the same feelings, i still have my rifle and shotgun 3 years later, they never leave my locker, until hunting season.

Response by CPT Joseph K Murdock made Jul 9 at 2016 2:36 PM

CPT Joseph K Murdock — Sat, 09 Jul 2016 14:36:45 -0400

I guess what turns my stomach is I am not going to hurt myself or others. Just leave me alone as I go on in my life.

Response by SrA Paul Pfeil made Jul 9 at 2016 6:22 PM

SrA Paul Pfeil — Sat, 09 Jul 2016 18:22:39 -0400

Federal law allows a doctor or police officer to put anyone in a mental Institute under doctor care for evaluation for 72 hours. All they need is suspicion that you are a danger to yourself or others. Or if say your nieghbor hates you and calls the cops on you for no reason and says they think you are a danger, they can enter your home with no warrant, and hold you. They can then take your weapons for "safe holding" though then you need a court order to get them back and an independent evaluation for one year then it is still up to the discretion of the police chief to give them back. I know it happened to me, i was only held 3 hrs and found fine, they took my son and I out of the house at gun point in cuffs. Left me standing in my underwear in front of my house for 30 minutes, with 8 cops on scene with shotguns , rifles and handguns. I was in the bathroom at the time they came in to get me.

Response by SrA Paul Pfeil made Jul 9 at 2016 6:34 PM

SrA Paul Pfeil — Sat, 09 Jul 2016 18:34:07 -0400

Look up involuntary commitment, and baker act. All states as well as federal law have such statutes and laws

Response by SPC George Adkins made Jul 9 at 2016 8:17 PM

SPC George Adkins — Sat, 09 Jul 2016 20:17:19 -0400

An important component to keep in mind is your rights. By voluntarily seeking treatment as opposed to being committed, you lose fewer rights. Once a Judge adjudicates you as having a mental illness, you lose your 2A rights.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 9 at 2016 9:00 PM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 09 Jul 2016 21:00:51 -0400

CPT Murdock, I am sorry to see that you are suffering from the same issues that i am. with that being said, I had to seek out a therapist to speak to on a monthly basis. this along with the medication I am on has helped me a lot. I still have good and bad days, but if I have a bad day I know I can call my therapist and if she is in a session she will call me right back to talk to me.

it sounds like you need to be able to talk about your inner demons without being judged. the VA has staff there that is willing to help you, ,you just have to ask for that help.

don't let your depression, anxiety, and paranoid frame of mind keep you from seeking the help and the counseling you may need to get back on the right track to recovery.

God bless and stay safe.

Response by 1SG Bill Farmerie made Jul 10 at 2016 11:59 AM

1SG Bill Farmerie — Sun, 10 Jul 2016 11:59:46 -0400

Maybe you should think about taking them up on it. If they ran tests and you know your depression and anxiety are out of control, then you may benefit from the stay

Response by SMSgt David Zobel made Jul 14 at 2016 1:39 PM

SMSgt David Zobel — Thu, 14 Jul 2016 13:39:20 -0400

Some, not all, VA clinics have involuntary commitment privileges within their individual county locations - such action requires the veteran to be a danger to self or others or gravely disabled - the involuntary hold is limited to 72 hours in every state I know of. In California, it is referred to as a 5150 hold. If a veteran presents to a clinic in this emotional or behavioral state and that facility does not have the privilege, they normally call the local police, and then the county medical team conducts the involuntary hold action. My experience has been that VA Behavioral Health staff often works toward having the veteran volunteer for the hospital placement so a hold is not required. The 72 hour "5150" hold in California is considered an assessment hold for the purpose of determining the gravity of the danger or mental disability. Most often, individuals stabilize during that period and are released. If not, an independent judge is required to examine the evidence of need and order additional time and the individual has the right to legal representation. This procedure is pretty typical of all behavioral or mental health clinics around the nation - not just VA. I hate to even think what the actual veteran suicide rate would be if this process didn't exist.