Can the US borders, North and South, actually be sealed to prevent significant unauthorized crossing?

2016-03-14T12:11:06-04:00

Any infantryman or engineer knows any obstacle is just a delay. Short of minefields and OP's with shoot-to-kill orders, can the borders be sealed within a reasonable budget. How would you do it?

Response by CSM Charles Hayden made Mar 14 at 2016 12:19 PM

2016-03-14T12:19:03-04:00

Maj John Bell The cost will be a stumbling block. The will to build the fence will be more difficult to find!

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Mar 14 at 2016 12:26 PM

2016-03-14T12:26:43-04:00

Nut unless you want to do an armed human wall...

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 14 at 2016 12:28 PM

2016-03-14T12:28:57-04:00

Place our forces about 2-5 miles back on our side of the border. Then declare the zone from the border to where friendly forces are, to be a 24x7 live fire/bombing range. Post signs at regular intervals explaining such, and that entry into this zone will likely result in death and/or dismemberment. It's a win-win-- the border is patrolled and our forces get a huge new free-fire and bombing range.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Mar 14 at 2016 12:48 PM

2016-03-14T12:48:06-04:00

Sealed? NO
More difficult YES.
Then address the real issue.. They flock here because they are coddled and accepted once on the ground. Make Hiring them a felony and ENFORCE the law....at the Company LEADERSHIP level, not the manager or HR.
Deport them immediately.. like as in within 24 hours of a immigration court appearance that proves they are not here legally.
Capture, deport and require criminal action against the mules that bring in the illegals from the host country. Track the legal action, and a mule captured and returned that is not criminally charged in the home country .. we STOP immediately all foreign aid to that country.... Recall as debt owed all monies paid to that country. List their representatives in the US as persona non grata, deport, close the embassy if they have one until all the deported criminals are charged, and or funds returned. Any national in that host country that has assets in the US, seize those assists as partial Host country debt repayment notifying the former assets owner and country they the former assets owner should seek remediation and reimbursement from their country leadership.

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Mar 14 at 2016 12:55 PM

2016-03-14T12:55:25-04:00

The DoD has studied and planned against this problem for decades. It can be done. I was involved in a study in the 1980s. Our main concern was the movement of drugs, not people, across the southern border. We worked with the three Departments to determine the forces necessary to seal the Southern border. I don't remember the exact numbers, which may have been classified, but it takes a few Army Divisions, several Air Force squadrons, a fleet of Navy ships, and Coast Guard ships to do the job. It's not cheap. The rules of engagement get interesting because of restriction on using Active Duty military to enforce law. However, that problem can be overcome with an act of Congress--possibly harder to get than the funding for the force.

Technology that's come along since the 1980s will make enforcing the air and ocean approaches to the Southern coastline easier and more efficient. The number of Navy and Coast Guard ships and Air Force aircraft would be fewer now than in the 1980s. Let's face it, we know what a secure land border looks like. It looks like the Berlin Wall. We need the courage to admit we need the wall, the wire, the clear zones, the towers, and other physical security infrastructure. Add the technological enhancements including video cameras, motion sensors, listening devices, ground penetrating radar, and large and small drones and it decreases the number of soldiers or border guards necessary to prevent penetration compared to our 1980s estimate.

The Air Component Commander and Sea Component Commander need authorities to stop or shoot down/sink aircraft and watercraft believed to be moving to invade (important word) the United States. The Land Component Commander will need authority to use deadly force against people invading the US across the Mexican border. These are tough authorities to get and even more difficult to exercise, but I trust our senior military commanders to use appropriate force and good judgement to complete the mission.

Finally, we have to remain committed to the mission for decades. Every time we introduce a new defensive technology, tactic, or technique, those trying to penetrate the border (invade the US) will develop a courter. There's a lot of money in smuggling drugs and people. The criminals and terrorists can buy or steal the best technology and innovative planners. We need to develop and keep the ability to get ahead of the criminals and terrorists and block their moves before they happen. This takes good intelligence and good science. In the end we can out-spend the bad guys like we did the USSR during the Cold War and have a secure border and secure nation.

BTW, I'm not ignoring the East and West Coasts and Northern Border. Our 1980s study didn't address these areas in detail. Many of the principles I mentioned above would need to be applied to the other borders as the threat dictated. Certainly the West Coast will need security to prevent criminals and terrorists from end running the Southern Border defenses. The defense of the East Coast is equally important because blocking off access through the Gulf of Mexico may force the criminals and terrorists the move up the East Coast to gain access to the US. Fortunately, we have a strong ally on our Northern Border. We probably don't want to build a fortress-type land border between us and Canada. We need to work with Canada to prevent the criminals and terrorists from entering their country in the first place.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Mar 14 at 2016 6:36 PM

2016-03-14T18:36:55-04:00

With current forces? Logistically impossible. The length of our border makes it non-feasible.

There's 5k Miles of US-Canada border (including 1500 miles along Alaska). There's 1900+ miles of US-Mexico border.

We're looking at 7000~ miles of border, not including Ocean border.

If you do a border tower every 500 feet (11 towers per mile), you would need 77,000 towers. Now take that and multiply that by 2 for two people per tower (154000). Three shifts per day would end up at 462,000.

That's without any logistical support. Just guards. Using a "liberal" estimate of 4:1, that would require 1.8M people just for border guards. A more reasonable estimate is closer to 15:1 however (6.9M).

Response by SPC Darren Koele made Mar 14 at 2016 8:14 PM

2016-03-14T20:14:44-04:00

Sure it can. But to completely seal our borders:
-it would most likely be conducted by the military; Army on land, navy and coast guard on the seas and shores, and all branches in the air, both jet aircraft and helo.
-to provide for such a force would take several tens of thousands of people.
-the cost of the forces, equipment (radar, vehicles, etc), and support (food, fuel, housing, etc), would be so astronomical that it would never get out of committee when proposed to congress.

The term "reasonable" is relative. For example, some people see $600 billion in military spending as reasonable and others think it's a waste. It depends on perception and personal biases. But I don't want to get caught up in semantics. Perhaps the answer is NOT sealing the borders but rather a multi-pronged approach; an approach that places security on the border and increases the risk over reward for those attempting to cross and those who would help them.
Maybe a wall is feasible in some sense. No so much from the Gulf to the Pacific in the south and ocean to ocean in the north, but perhaps at strategic points to redirect border crossers, much in the way of tank ditches, wire, and minefields in conventional warfare. You back up the wall with troops from existing units. Put on 30 or 60 day rotations at designated border camps (to be built); you could maybe even involve the National Guard and Reserves, incorporate their 2 week exercise on border duty. The objective of the military is primarily detection and apprehension. After apprehension, they are turned over to the border patrol for investigation, processing, and deportation. In this manner, it could be argued that the military is NOT enforcing law but merely upholding it's primary purpose which is defending a country. Much the same way we conducted border operations in Germany before unification. Yes, I realize that was more like patrolling the borders of Oregon than a country the size of the US, but you got to start somewhere.
After "securing" the border, you work inwards; this is where federal, state, county, and local agencies come in and enforce existing law that states it is illegal to aid, transport, harbor, and hire illegal aliens. This means not just going after the illegals themselves, but also those that hire them. If you want imprisonment as part of punishment for the employer, you can do that. I think what's bigger is to fine them heavily for each and every illegal they hire. Make the fine hefty enough that it becomes to much of a risk to hire the illegals. Then give them an option. They can pay the fine and let them be deported, or pay the fine then sponsor the illegal and obtain a work visa. While taking down employers, every illegal caught speeding, jaywalking, loitering, or however you catch them, gets deported. There ill be no need to round up the 20 million people here illegally. You simply make it uncomfortable for them to be here and the flow will slow and some of those here may even leave on their own.
Yes, it's a big cost up front but this should begin to taper off before too long.

Response by 1LT A. Uribe made Mar 15 at 2016 1:09 AM

2016-03-15T01:09:00-04:00

It can't be done, If the Mexican cartel can jail break el Chapo we can't expect to seal the border. What we need to do is repeal or amend the 14th amendment and cut and limit social programs.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 15 at 2016 5:51 AM

2016-03-15T05:51:40-04:00

Tom Kratman once pointed out in one of his articles that for every 50-foot wall, there's a 51-foot ladder, but also that for every 51-foot ladder, there's a 50-caliber.

It would be a logistical nightmare, though. It would also require an extreme amount of political capital and the willingness to persevere despite the howling through both diplomatic channels and through pro-illegal immigration groups in the States.

The issue is thorny, because it involves people who are often destitute. Humans are hardwired to help the destitute.

A militarized border could be done, but it really ought to go hand-in-hand with a streamlined immigration process. My wife emigrated from Canada, and the process was a total cluster from the very first form we filed. Not to mention expensive. I had to file a form declaring my financial ability to keep my wife off the dole, and the cost to file that one form was ~$400-ish.

We are never going to solve the problem of people wanting to come here, so long as our nation remains the economic powerhouse of the world. What we have is simply too enviable.

That said, we should balance inviting folks to live here with ensuring that they're fully integrated into our society, both from a legal standpoint and an ethical one. Diversity can be a good thing, but we're greater than the sum of our parts, and it's time we stop being fixated on what wonderful parts we are and start focusing on becoming that greater thing.

Response by 1SG Harold Piet made Mar 15 at 2016 6:23 AM

2016-03-15T06:23:28-04:00

When I stopped putting bird feeders in my back yard the birds and squirrels stopped coming over the fence after them. Stop providing the care and start expelling them as fast as we find them. life saving medical care only. Disband the border patrol, make them park rangers and give the border security to the National Guard. let all 50 states work together supporting it.

Response by SSG Robert Spina made Mar 15 at 2016 7:49 AM

2016-03-15T07:49:43-04:00

PROBABLY NEVER BE COMPLETELY SEALED BUT CAN DEFINITELY SLOW DOWN THE INVASION

Response by SPC Marcus DeMatos made Mar 15 at 2016 8:07 AM

2016-03-15T08:07:04-04:00

Nothing can be absolutely stopped, as we all know in accomplishing our missions ... "if there is will, then there will be a way".
But besides changing our civil policies (prosecuting employers of illegals, stopping the social dole, etc), the actual administration of the border should be a military function, with the current border patrol acting as a seconded unit for the law enforcement portion of any captured border breakers. This also gives a practical separation to prevent confusion on the Posse Comitatus Act stipulations.
The actual rotation of units on the border really isn't as difficult as it sounds... look at the current map and where our military installations are -- Ft Sam, Ft Hood, Ft Bliss, Arizona Proving Grounds, 7 Palms ... all close enough to provide fortnight company size rotations to each 10-mile segment. As we build guard towers we also build some rudimentary barracks/DFACs for the guard force. Instead of playing "field maneuvers" out beyond visual range of the barracks at Ft Hood the units would get practical field time fulfilling their oaths and "defending against all enemies foreign and domestic".

Response by PO3 Donald Murphy made Mar 15 at 2016 8:36 AM

2016-03-15T08:36:32-04:00

How would president Don Murphy seal the border? Ooooo - easy one. At the bottom of every I-9 form is a blurb saying that you understand that your employee is legal to work in the USA and a further chunk of the blurb says what will happen to you if you don't check. So basically I'd do spot checks. Got caught? Throw you in jail, disband your company and fire all of your legal employee's. Do not allow the legal employees to sue you for jeopardizing their careers, but advertise where you lived. "Today in BFE, employer Bob Jones' - who lives at 1616 Mockingbird Lane - had his company disbanded due to hiring illegal labor." How many people would you have to do this to? Start advertising HUGE rewards for whistle blowers. Publisize them! "Yeah, my boss was hiring illegal work and I got a million dollars for turning him in!" Soon, its just not good sense to hire them and - OH HEY - they stop coming.

Response by SSG Bill Tallen made Mar 15 at 2016 10:30 AM

2016-03-15T10:30:28-04:00

The larger issue, which I have reason to believe is the reason for the deer-in-the-headlights look you get from politicians who get fully briefed in, is that sealing the border (assuming it could be done) would be like closing the valve on a pressure cooker without turning off the heat. The flow of people north, and money back south, is the pressure relief valve that keeps Mexico from collapsing into full failed-state anarchy. If that occurs, the cross border flow will increase ten- or hundred-fold, and they'll all be carrying Tom Kratman's 51-foot ladders. And back on their side, the national security implications for the US will dwarf everything we see today. Sealing the border today would lead us to a decades-long military incursion to impose stability and governance on Mexico tomorrow, at a prohibitive cost in blood and treasure. Didn't Harold Coyle write a novel about this years ago? His premises were sound.
Cinch down the flow with border controls, and reduce the economic incentives for heading north, with a light hand on the throttle and an unblinking watch on political and economic conditions in Mexico - that's about all we can really do. It's a classic "wicked problem" that minefields and .50s just won't solve.

Response by PO2 Robert Lee made Mar 15 at 2016 10:37 AM

2016-03-15T10:37:37-04:00

I would have fun making it difficult to cross the wall and reduce the crossing by 95%.
I enjoy lasers, that said: I would make a 100-200 foot kill zone and use 1-2 megawatt IR-cutting lasers randomized by computer to make the kill zone 6" above the ground to 5' above the wall and everything in between. Mirrors would be placed between 6" - 15" apart and set to take any of 50,000 randomized patterns.
That would be a unique deterrent.

Response by MSgt J D McKee made Mar 15 at 2016 11:01 AM

2016-03-15T11:01:21-04:00

You had me at "minefield". No border, no sovereignty, no sovereignty, no country. Enforce the law. Strike at the mules in some way so draconian no one would want to be a mule. Enforce the law, as SGM Marquez says.

Response by SSG Ricardo Marcial made Mar 15 at 2016 11:07 AM

2016-03-15T11:07:15-04:00

The physical land borders are the easy target for anyone wanting to gain entry and for politicians to place blame on the issue. The other entry points, by air and sea are never discussed. Millions of non citizens enter this country on work visas, student visas, tourist visas, entrepreneurs visas (the Chinese currently have a dominance on the 10,000 total per year). and let's not forget the second most popular way to gain entry, child birth. All airports are birthing centers, the Chinese, Phillipines, India, all the ME, Eastern Europe use our airports as birthing centers to grant that newborn US citizenship. China uses US territories in the Pacific for this, thousands of American born Chinese are now in China, with a birth certificate, and once they are of age they can legally enter the US with family. So are the N/S borders a major problem, well yes. But the Immigration Laws are the real problem.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 15 at 2016 11:30 AM

2016-03-15T11:30:33-04:00

I think the goal is to slow the flow... the wall has to happen.

Response by CPT Pedro Meza made Mar 15 at 2016 11:54 AM

2016-03-15T11:54:58-04:00

There is no way to seal any border, due to the fact that one human invents a seal and many humans invent a way in; the rule of "Necessity is the Mother of invention" applies both ways.

Response by LTC Wayne Dandridge made Mar 15 at 2016 12:37 PM

2016-03-15T12:37:51-04:00

No and a wall is too expensive. Just need our house and senate to pass practical laws and enforce the ones we have. We need immigrants.

Response by SSgt GG-15 RET Jim Lint made Mar 15 at 2016 2:22 PM

2016-03-15T14:22:09-04:00

You are asking if the nation that was first to get a man on the moon can create sealed borders?
--Maybe Americans should ask North Korea how to do it?
--Maybe Americans should ask China how to do it?
--Maybe Americans should ask Russia how to do it?
--Maybe Americans should ask Cuba which has a good boarder by Gitmo if you want to study borders?
There are a lot of countries that are not as rich, smart, or capable as the US that have figured it out. It is crazy to think we are that stupid.
Models: East German was radical, but highly effective. Gitmo/CUba border; Pakistan/India boarder has some lessons learned.
I remember when we had Egypt, and other countries touring US Border Control offices and their R&D center.

Response by LCpl Rich Vail made Mar 15 at 2016 3:41 PM

2016-03-15T15:41:09-04:00

not under the current administration. IF the one that follows is serious about it, it can be done, but it will cost time and money. Anyone who is a trained infantryman knows this...I'd take a very hard look at the Israel's borders and how they've sealed both the West Bank and Gaza...then I'd do what they did. Additionally, I'd hire enough border agents and give them the training they'd need in order to stop any breaches that will inevitably occur.

Furthermore, in order to end illegal immigration, we have to take an entirely different approach. I wrote this several years ago:

http://thevailspot.blogspot.com/2011/11/how-to-end-illegal-immigration.html

There is constant argument on how to eliminate the huge problem we have with illegal immigrants in this country. This post stems from a comment on made on a Daily Caller article. You want to end illegal immigration? There are five simple steps to do so:

1. One year mandatory jail term and $10,000.00 fine for each illegal worker who is found in your employment.
2. Revoke business license for 1 year for each illegal worker who is found in your employ
3. On third violation...sieze all property owned by that company...
4. Eliminate the "anchor baby" citizenship loophole...by stating that those children born to parents who are here illegally do not have citizenship.
5. Eliminate ALL federal funding to municipalities and counties that are "santuary" areas. (If you don't wish to enforce federal laws...then you don't get federal dollars.).

Those five simple steps would eliminate any and all incentives for hiring illegal workers.

The Vail Spot: How to end Illegal Immigration

No Title of Nobility shall be granted by the United States: And no Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under them, shall, without the Consent of the Congress, accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince, or foreign State.

Response by CDR Mike Kovack made Mar 15 at 2016 4:46 PM

2016-03-15T16:46:32-04:00

Illegal immigrants are coming here for work. Enforce the law. Penalize the companies hiring them and the problem goes away. We have been getting better at it, but there are powerful forces at work that don't want the laws enforced. All this talk of a wall is foolish. Deal with the endgame, not the symptons......

Response by MSG Mitch Dowler made Mar 15 at 2016 6:09 PM

2016-03-15T18:09:36-04:00

Build to fences, One on the souther border. The second fence is enforcement of immigration law, eliminating social services, housing, schools, government ID, housing and jobs for illegals and they will climb back over the fence to go home.

Response by PO1 Ronald Schmiegelt made Mar 15 at 2016 7:25 PM

2016-03-15T19:25:25-04:00

We have to stop looking at this as solely a military project. Illegals come here because they know that the Government will take care of them. This action has to stop. The Border Patrol and border state agencies need to be on the border turning people away before they even cross. Intense political pressure needs to be put on Mexico to enforce their own laws, instead of providing a highway for people to cross to come to the US. Businesses need to be heavily penalized for hiring illegals. Current laws need to be enforced. If Mexico doesn't want to comply, tariffs or some other means can be used to make Mexican made products less desirable for business to market in the US. We do have the power to put great economic pressure on Mexico.

Mexico as well as Central and South American governments need pressure put on them to end the corruption and drug cartel influence in their countries. Although the US has many corrupt officials, these governments have many more. If the countries were free-er, economically, fewer people would want to leave.

Since several states have legalized marijuana, cartel profits have been cut by about 50%. While I am not a legal marijuana supporter, it demonstrates pressure that can be placed on these countries. It should be looked at for more ideas on how to place economic pressure on them.

Military action should be reserved for those areas of the border that the Border Patrol, State and local officials have deemed too dangerous to patrol. The military could clean these up in short order and turn them back over to local control. Assistance can then be given to the locals to keep these areas safe for Americans.

There cannot be solely a military/enforcement component to this plan. It will take all branches of Government, State and local included, to apply the political and economic pressure necessary to make fewer people to want to come here. The US is not completely socialist, at least not yet. We do possess the economic might necessary to do this.

Response by SGM Mikel Dawson made Mar 15 at 2016 9:53 PM

2016-03-15T21:53:37-04:00

Maybe someone needs to talk to Israel, they've seemed to do well on this subject. Yes it can be sealed, but you need over watch on the obstacle. As SGM Erik Marquez stated in his post, there are many things which can be done to take away the incentive to come.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 15 at 2016 10:01 PM

2016-03-15T22:01:56-04:00

First, I'd recognize that we want migrant workers to pick fruits and vegetables, as well as other jobs that Americans don't seem to be willing to do.

Then I'd set up a guest-worker program. I'd issue ID cards like our CACs, with biometric information. You want to come in, you show your CAC and scan your fingerprint.

Next, I'd make sure every visitor knew that if you violate the law, we might take your CAC up, and since we have your biometric info, you won't be getting another one. I'd also make sure that visitors knew they were expected to leave the country for at least a month per year to prove they are VISITORS. (A side effect would be generally more respect for US law, including having insurance.)

Another side effect is that having made it possible for people to enter legally, there would be less people for smugglers to hide in, which might reduce illegal drug and weapon importation, or at least make them easier to catch.

Finally, anyone who has been in this country illegally, but has otherwise kept his nose clean, should be able to ask for a card and receive it. And that solves a whole lot of the illegal immigrant issue for those who have been here since children. It also gives them legal status as visitors, and they can make application to increase their status.

Because you don't have to be a citizen to be treated fairly, given a fair wage, and allowed to work in this country.

Response by SPC James Dollins made Mar 15 at 2016 10:30 PM

2016-03-15T22:30:27-04:00

I don't think our borders can or ever will be 'sealed'. There will always be someone that finds a way. Look at the tunnels the smugglers have built. Unless we buried impenetrable fences under & above ground they/we will NEVER be able to stop the illegal immigrant problem.

Response by SGT Aaron Atwood made Mar 15 at 2016 10:53 PM

2016-03-15T22:53:56-04:00

The borders can be sealed, but to do so and enforce the total closing would require a complete do-over of our Constitution. This of course would lead to other problems that are far more pressing than illegal immigration.

Response by SPC Kevin Sickles made Mar 16 at 2016 2:57 AM

2016-03-16T02:57:51-04:00

No, we should just officially annex Canada and Mexico into the North American Union. We already provide the bulk of forces from this hemisphere for protection. And it would be easier to defend the land borders since Mexico already has a southern border fence. And, no one invades Canada. It's like the Switzerland of this continent.

Response by SPC William Ziemer made Mar 16 at 2016 2:59 AM

2016-03-16T02:59:00-04:00

"sealed to prevent >>>significant<<< unauthorized crossing" Yep!
Another thought that just hit me... Don't know the logistics between states and us military but couldn't vast tracks of preferred boarder bashing land by illegals be used by the military (or national guard), for exercise purposes only, on unspecified occasions?

It seems like that could be an almost immediate if only temporary aid if nothing else. Doesn't seem like people would be likely to feel comfortable trying to cross if military units were stationed there at irregular intervals in constantly changing sites.

And of-course the number of MPs with loaded riffles and authority to tell "civilians" it was a training exercise and they couldn't be in the area, would be much larger than usual...Still thinking...I'll stop now.

Response by SPC Tim McKenzie made Mar 16 at 2016 1:10 PM

2016-03-16T13:10:40-04:00

Find as many East German /Soviet personnel that are left alive from constructing the Berlin Wall, former Soviet border troops, Chinese border specialists, and others with knowlege of this area of expertise and build a secure border. Also purge the State Department of communist sympathisers, of which there are far too many.

Response by PO1 Kevin Arnold made Mar 16 at 2016 2:54 PM

2016-03-16T14:54:05-04:00

No boarder can be completely sealed. For the cost would be so much that both countries would have to help build up that boarder. The best way to completely seal up a boarder is to separate them with running water. Yes make a trench from one side to the other. In the case of Mexico an Texas make the river bigger. Have enough water to put boats through if needed. The water needs to have a constant flow to prevent swimmers or non propulsion boats.l for entering the water. It's either this or when the illegals are caught to have them pay a fine each time. This could help build up a better bourder/wall or even help with my idea. The illegals who are already here need to pay back taxes or even taxes. This could be for when they started to work or a fee if just caught crossing the boarder illegally. Either way we need to start getting money from illegals for if we do they might say it's unfair but our country did not ask for you to come here illegally. If illegal a price has to be paid, for a legal has to pay taxes so why not an illegal. For some have to pay for others to not work or take work from others and it should not be for an illegal person.

Response by PVT Raymond Lopez made Mar 16 at 2016 8:01 PM

2016-03-16T20:01:15-04:00

Yes!!

Response by MSgt John McGowan made Mar 17 at 2016 12:04 AM

2016-03-17T00:04:38-04:00

The government makes it to easy to cross the border. Then all the free stuff starts. Better health care the the VA and fast service. Ability to claim a most unlimited children on tax refunds. All thy habe to do is give a SS number.stop automatic aid and assist.Keep them jailed if necessary if they are no shows for court. Place snipers on hill tops and run them back. They are costing taxpayer aboUT $2700 a year. What is another 100,000 Syria's going to cost

Response by Sgt Mark Prokes made Mar 17 at 2016 4:10 PM

2016-03-17T16:10:48-04:00

I believe slightly more aggressive patrolling and looser rules of engagement " only to make sure patrollers are safe" would be a small help.
The next and more important part would be, every person cought crossing subtracts by $5000 -10,000 the amount of financial aid we send to the offending country.
Then we detain them without question. Until such time as we can deport.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 18 at 2016 7:49 AM

2016-03-18T07:49:46-04:00

I read all these posts and most ofthem i can agree with minus those who want to make the southern border a war zone i agree that felony charges for the companys hiring undocumented immigrants should be a major consideration factor. Hell, hey are a major contributing factor to human trafficking from the south to the north. This has been a long standing activity for MANY decades. A lot of these companys who engaged in these activities have enough money to throw at any charges brought against them though, and lobbyist in washington buying off the congress and the senate. so you see this issue is not as simple, is it? Also, lol, there are many for profit prisons that are making money on holding undocumented immigrants that are guilty of no other crimes, indefinitely to make there profit margins. Many of these prisons also have contracts with other private companys to use prison labor to produce their goods. Interestingly, government officials can buy stock from companys using prison labor (stocks do pretty well). Prisoners, and unrepresented quarter of our population, is being used as near slave labor, lol. Some of them even do tech support for private companies, and we are worried about our jobs going overseas? Also, there have been many reports that if prisoners refuse to work, they are out into solitary confinement for at least a week. Some of thse prisons look like wharehouses with holding pens, and the prisoners complain that the k-9s get treated better than them. Also, private prisons aee set up in parts of the US where there is so much economic need, and for lack of creativity, legislators will welcome private prisons to their towns. It used to be that the US would simply deport mexicans back to their country, and if they had a repeated offense than it would be prison time. This is not a federal crime actually, it is a civil crime, that states have relinquished the rights to act on themselves. Anyway, the issue is bigger than what you think it is, and i am telling you that our country, our military, monitors the southern and northern boarders like its nobodys business. I know this. So, unless you want some target practice, i reccomend you do some research. That is all i have.

Response by MSgt Michael Smith made Mar 18 at 2016 10:50 AM

2016-03-18T10:50:39-04:00

No. Not now, not ever.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 18 at 2016 4:04 PM

2016-03-18T16:04:13-04:00

I have long been of the opinion that the VAST majority of US troops should be brought home and engaged in border patrol ops If it's good enough for the DMZ in Korea why not at home? A QRF with coms to sizemic detection wouldn't hurt either.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 18 at 2016 6:20 PM

2016-03-18T18:20:22-04:00

Personally, I would pull of our Troops from the majority of our overseas bases back to the US and return the bases to their home Countries. We needed those bases during the Cold War, but now they're obsolete. Then I would "Blacken the Skies" with planes spraying weed killer over all the Afghan and Pakistan Opium Poppy fields 24/7 for about a week. Then I would stop all aid to any Country that supports any type of illegal activity toward the USA and our allies. I would tell the World that the US will no longer tolerate any terrorist threat from any country, and if terrorists are found living and training in a country, the US will attack and destroy the suspect Terrorist area where ever it is. There will be no warnings given. Iran and North Korea will cease their Nuke programs or those programs will be destroyed. If any weapons of mass destruction are used in the United States, the leaders of the country(s) of origin will be subject to swift and severe retaliation. The US Military would secure our Borders 360 degrees. Any ILLEGAL ALIEN attempting to cross the US Borders anywhere other than a Checkpoint, (thousands of these checkpoints would be established and each person crossing would be fingerprinted, photographed, and required to give a DNA sample. They would be issued a photo ID, and all the info would be placed in a centralized redundant computer databases and would be accessible to all branches of the military and all law enforcement agencies.) Anyone attempting to enter illegally would be subject to the use of deadly force. It's time for America show the World we are the most generous country to our friends and the worst nightmare to those that are not.

Response by LTC Martin Metz made Mar 18 at 2016 9:56 PM

2016-03-18T21:56:45-04:00

The southern border is typically most often discussed, but the northern border has its problems in certain locations as well. Some sort of sealing is possible, but to be effective sufficient staffing will be required. Hadrian's Wall, the Great Wall of China, and the Israeli border barriers work because of the garrisons assigned to cover them. Drones, satellites, helicopters, sensors, and TV cameras cannot be expected to completely replace the people element.

Response by SFC William Swartz Jr made Mar 19 at 2016 12:05 PM

2016-03-19T12:05:02-04:00

Only if we are serious about border security will it ever actually be effective or make a difference. If we decide that we want to secure/close the borders, I am sure that we could hire and train enough people to make it happen. But until the politicians decide that to be the CoA, nothing will make that happen.

Response by Capt Richard I P. made Mar 19 at 2016 7:41 PM

2016-03-19T19:41:41-04:00

No. Physical barriers do not stop economic pressures, they only drive up costs.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 24 at 2016 9:26 PM

2016-03-24T21:26:25-04:00

It always surprises me that otherwise intelligent people are so mesmerized by the news media and our political parties that only two solutions are envisioned to the immigration issue. (i.e. Completely open border and citizenship for illegals versus a tightly sealed border.)

May I suggest an alternative? We need a guest worker program, because you don't need to be a citizen to work in the U.S. nor do you need to be a citizen to be paid a fair wage. We could issue ID cards with encoded biometric data. You want to come in, you show you ID and scan your fingerprint.

Side benefits:
1) If violating the law carried with it the possible permanent loss of your ID, there might be more respect for U.S. law, including liability insurance for alien drivers.
2) Easy legal entry would reduce the number of people seeking illegal entry. This would make terrorist, drug runners, and other smugglers easier to spot.
3) With less "innocent" people crossing the border, more extreme measures could be taken against criminals, with less outcry.

Response by PO2 Robert Lee made Apr 12 at 2016 10:28 AM

2016-04-12T10:28:53-04:00

Personally I like lasers which should be used at the top of any and all walls. Obstacles is a delay to the inevitable. However, it should be more of an obstacle where the person has to REALLY want to cross over. Anyone can crawl over or under a fence, how many will figure out how to cross a 10kw laser fence that is the secondary fence. Now that would be a challenge for both the people crossing the border and the people assisting the moving of human cargo across the border.

Response by PO3 Brian Drey made May 21 at 2016 2:30 AM

2016-05-21T02:30:13-04:00

They flock here because its the land of the free and home of brave. I would want to come here too. The problem is we fix things by spending more money on the same programs that havent worked. We shuffel a couple leaders beef up man power and fix nothing. Look at our vet suicide rate still 22 day. Day after day the # is actually about 40 each day. See the same programs more money shuffel people do the same thing. I have even written the white house everyday for three years with a guarantee new way to prevent suicide but one replied. We like looking like we are fixing problems. We shuffel people and put money into the same old programs. Why do we want secured boarders in the first place? I always hear the racist reply keep those no good free loading Mexicans out of here. Its just plane racist and not living through the the words of God. You know love and kindness to all. These people crawl through the desert with snakes, no water, coyote the animal and also the human type coyote. I think its amazing how hard they will work to get a taste of the freedom we have. People will always want to come here. So what do we do. Well we put all efforts into collecting taxes and back taxes. Have every illegal here right now that brings us $1500 a person or $2500 a family and recieves the proper vaccinations will receive their citizenship. Also figure out how to help make a middel class work in Mexico. I dont care how they got here but when they get here then thry need to follow our laws. Imagine that take the man power at the border and start going door to door and setting up finacel payments, verifying future taxs are being paid and maybe just maybe some of our debt will be removed and our economy may see a rejuvenation with a flood of new tax being paid. We have to one day take our hate of other human being and replace with love and kindness to all yes even the Latina coulture. We are all human being and we all desrve happiness no matter where come from. Stop spending and start collecting. We will see new life. Can you imagine crawling through just hell to get to this place of happiness to see and hear such hate. Collect what they owe and move on!