Can the Marine Corps force you to go to an event and pay for it?

Sgt Chrisotpher Holt — Mon, 03 Oct 2022 20:45:22 -0400

I have a Marine who is still within the Marine Corps. He is being medically separated and can barely stand for 5-10min. The Marine Corps ball is coming up. He told his NCOs that he did not want to pay for a $60 ticket, travel 49 miles, and pay $120 for one night at a hotel. He does not have a car either. They are giving him negative paperwork for not wanting to pay and attend. Is there a specific order that could prevent them from doing this? I feel this is a form of extortion (threatening to give negative paperwork for not paying).

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 3 at 2022 8:56 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 03 Oct 2022 20:56:46 -0400

If they so order him to be at the Ball as his designated Place of Duty, then yea....which would suck for this kid.

Response by SSgt Christophe Murphy made Oct 3 at 2022 11:44 PM

SSgt Christophe Murphy — Mon, 03 Oct 2022 23:44:15 -0400

Ball attendance is generally required but the ticket is normally associated with the meal and sitting at a table. Most balls have gallery seating for those not sticking around for the meal. This seems less an issue with being on a med board and more about not wanting to spend $60 for a ticket. I'm sure this Marine isn't the only one on a budget. I'm sure they could carpool with other Marines. 49 Miles isn't that much of a commute. I'm sure if he stated he only wanted to attend the Ceremony and not receive a meal (which is what the price is associated with) there would be something worked out. I attended many a ball and nobody was forced by threat of NJP to pay for a ball ticket. I'm sure speaking to EO or FRO could help add some common sense to the conversation.

Response by LtCol Robert Quinter made Oct 4 at 2022 6:03 AM

LtCol Robert Quinter — Tue, 04 Oct 2022 06:03:58 -0400

I would recommend the Marine consult with an SJA at the base Legal Office after confirming the requirement with his Commanding Officer. Considering the years since I was on active duty, the regulations may have changed, but in my experience, if a serviceman is required to perform duties away from his assigned duty station, transportation, quarters, meals, and all expenses relative to the temporary assignment are to be covered by their unit. There is also the question concerning his medical suitability for performing the duty.
Frankly, this sounds more like threats at the section level since I cannot imagine a Commanding Officer issuing such a requirement.

Response by SFC Kelly Fuerhoff made Oct 4 at 2022 2:04 PM

SFC Kelly Fuerhoff — Tue, 04 Oct 2022 14:04:36 -0400

He should probably go talk to legal and check out these references:
Department of Defense Directive 5500.7-R, Joint Ethics Regulation (JER), and 5 Code of Federal Regulations (CFR), Part 2635.

But they can't force someone to buy a ticket to go to a military ball. I'm not saying it never happens - but it's not legal or ethical either. They also can't negative counsel someone for not attending. He should really go talk to legal.

If a unit really wants everyone to go to a ball, then they need to find a way for there to be no or low cost for everyone to be there. It's not always about cost either - some people it's childcare issues if they don't have childcare there. Some people work odd shifts. Etc, etc before anyone goes on the "Well it's expected especially for leaders."

I haven't been to a military ball since 2007. After our second deployment we had a Dining in (or dining out whichever one is we didn't have to wear uniforms it was business casual). There was one in 2012 when i was at Riley, they said all SSG and above had to go. I didn't go. No one said a word to me even though it was pushed out 1SG would counsel anyone who didn't. I wouldn't care if he had. They can't make anyone go except to any official portion of it - which is usually the honor guard/color guard and the guest speaker and that's it. But you can't make someone buy a ticket or contribute to fundraising efforts.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 4 at 2022 3:27 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 04 Oct 2022 15:27:36 -0400

Seen similar situations, you can not be forced to buy anything that isn't mandatory for service. Uniform items and gear are issued, clothing allowances given, anything extra is on you. A ball ticket or a forced meal? Can not be forced, at least in the Army.

For example I knew of a MSG that got in trouble for forcing a Soldier in his section to buy a specific phone so that they could communicate in a way the MSG liked. A CPT that forced his troops to buy specific after market gear as a "mission necessity". Complete no go.

Now the Marine can be ordered to attend the ball and report in a specific uniform, but if he has a profile the order can not violate that profile.

The Marine should consult with his servicing Judge Advocate and the Doc that issued the profile before making any decisions but likely he'll have to attend

Personally, anyone who's medically ate up shouldn't be forced anywhere by brass polishers and frayed stripes just so they can feel good about themselves.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 7 at 2022 11:24 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 07 Oct 2022 11:24:46 -0400

They can't make him pay for that.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Oct 9 at 2022 10:30 AM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Sun, 09 Oct 2022 10:30:52 -0400

In all my years I never saw or attended a ball that was mandatory for E4 and below. Having said that my units Family clubs always raised money for this who could not afford to attend. The Color Guard was always placed on TDY as they had rehearsals and the like usually leading to a couple of days at least.

It sounds to me as if the NCOs (junior) are probably applying the same pressure to there troops as is the command on them. I would very simply as to speak to the Co and or 1SG asap. Not sure anyone can be punished.

It is clearly unauthorized to make anyone pay for an event that they cannot afford. So while I agree that it is legal to require folks to attend, I have never seen it enforced. These events are amazing and fun if sone well, so little motivation is required.

Again I would be surprised if the command the intends to hurt or punish anyone. Hell the CSM can use them for a detail and pay there way through TDY

Response by LCpl Jeff Moore made Oct 16 at 2022 9:31 AM

LCpl Jeff Moore — Sun, 16 Oct 2022 09:31:07 -0400

I would ask for the order in writing, then go speak to base legal. I was never forced to attend and not sure why he would be force to stay over night.

Response by Cpl Wilfred I Banchs made Nov 18 at 2022 9:57 AM

Cpl Wilfred I Banchs — Fri, 18 Nov 2022 09:57:08 -0500

I'm thinking there is more to this Marine's story than is being given... There could be a perception of malingering in his leadership. If he doesn't want to go, did he offer to take duty for those that want to go? Is his separation purely medical or is there some disciplinary action accompanying the discharge? The answer is no, they couldn't force him to go to the Birthday Ball, that is always an optional activity, now a Mess Night is not optional... either way, if you don't want to go, the honorable things is to offer to take duty on that night...

Response by Sgt Stephanie Stewart made Dec 9 at 2022 7:43 PM

Sgt Stephanie Stewart — Fri, 09 Dec 2022 19:43:25 -0500

No. I was in several decades ago and was injured in a car accident with a full leg cast. I was ordered to returned to base because they were put on alert. All functions are mandatory. He should check to see if the base has a hotel or housing for him for the night. Not sure why he is having to pay to attend the ball it should be or used to be free. I believe he is within the mile range for participation and should have been informed that he had to return if requested. In the end he should go, it's not worth it not to go it could get him in trouble and maybe court martialed. The marine corps is a strict organization. This could mess with his medical discharge. Then again maybe he can get a medical note for nonattendance. But it has to be a military doctor. Another thing i don 't understand is if he is medically separated why they are asking him to attend. He needs to check his discharge date on his dd214. It sounds like he is not completely discharge yet.

Response by CPL Brian Baumgartner made Jan 3 at 2023 5:39 PM

CPL Brian Baumgartner — Tue, 03 Jan 2023 17:39:37 -0500

Send him to Base Legal. If they cannot resolve this cleanly, then it appears to be the sort of extortion that can interest the IG.

Incidentally, I had a similar experience myself. Shortly before I ETS-ed from the Army, I refused to purchase Army Ball tickets, due to personal reasons. When I was told by my leadership that everyone had to go, I took it up with First Sergeant. He agreed I could not be forced to purchase tickets, but if I would not attend as a ticket holder, then I would be required to be on a detail supporting the Ball. And since it was off post, transportation was provided. And in my case, I did not have a medical condition keeping me off his feet. Does he have a profile stating he cannot stand or walk for more than a few minutes? If not, can he be assigned one? That could be a tidy way to handle this.

Why is the Ball 49 miles away? Is he on medical leave and away from the unit? Or is it in fact being held far away from Pendleton? I only live twenty miles from Pendleton, and there must be scores of suitable locations between here and there.

Response by MCPO Bryan Mosher made Mar 4 at 2023 12:25 PM

MCPO Bryan Mosher — Sat, 04 Mar 2023 12:25:19 -0500

Welcome to politics in the military 101. If you want to be accepted and one of the guys you will go along to get along. The military can be a pretty lonely place. Also whenever there is a sh..t job that needs doing who do you think will get the gig?

Response by SSG Elmer Price made Mar 5 at 2023 4:26 PM

SSG Elmer Price — Sun, 05 Mar 2023 16:26:52 -0500

No they can not do this!

Response by SPC Roxanne Moultrie made Mar 8 at 2023 7:33 AM

SPC Roxanne Moultrie — Wed, 08 Mar 2023 07:33:01 -0500

Seems Like They Are Treating Him Like A POS Because He Is Getting Medically Discharged. Been There, Done That.
They Had Me Training For Air Assault, Had A 290 PT Score, And All Types Of Shitt. But As Soon I Hurt My Back, I Was Placed On Shitt Details, Constantly On CQ Or Staff Duty And Etc.. I Feel For Him. Hopefully He Can Weather The Storm Until His Discharge Date. Smh.

Response by GySgt Jack Wallace made Mar 8 at 2023 9:04 AM

GySgt Jack Wallace — Wed, 08 Mar 2023 09:04:29 -0500

Call legal and ask???

Response by SSG Eric Blue made Mar 9 at 2023 1:26 PM

SSG Eric Blue — Thu, 09 Mar 2023 13:26:53 -0500

I will readily admit that I don't know how things work in the Marine Corps as I served in the Army. But it sounds familiar to what I and other paratroopers had to deal with in the 82nd Airborne Division at Fort Bragg. Certain leadership has tried to force many a paratrooper to attend a military formal or the annual 82nd Airborne Division Association Convention wherever it was being hosted. Personally, it seems like they're trying to give your Marine a hard time for no reason. My leadership on Bragg tried that as well. When they couldn't get (insert paratrooper's name here) to buy a ticket and attend a ball or go to Convention (especially if said paratrooper already had important plans), they'd try to make that paratrooper's life miserable by denying passes or putting them on details involving those events. I'll defer to LtCol Robert Quinter's response as it seems pretty sound. In my own experience, I let my "leadership" give me the negative counseling and filled out the Session Closing portion with my own remarks and explained how my "leadership" tried to coerce me into attending an event when I already had a paid civilian training to go to. I couldn't bring it to my FO or Team Chief because they were part of the problem. My Team Chief was the acting Platoon Sergeant and the Chief of the Firing Battery was the acting First Sergeant...who sided with my "leadership", anyway. I tried the open-door policy anyway and got cursed out. So I used the Command Sergeant Major's open-door policy before going to IG or Legal (those would have been my next stops). When the CSM found out what my civilian training was, he was cool with it and my "leadership" got butt-hurt, but didn't retaliate. Especially when they saw that my APFT scores went from 250 plus a consistent 270 plus and that I was outworking most of the battery. Any other time that some shenanigans like that came up, I was sure to establish a paper trail so that I had PROOF whenever I brought it to the appropriate authority.

Response by TSgt Carl Johnson made Mar 11 at 2023 4:21 PM

TSgt Carl Johnson — Sat, 11 Mar 2023 16:21:57 -0500

I there an update as to what happened with this Marine and the Marine Corps Ball?

Response by PO1 David M Burns made Mar 12 at 2023 6:39 AM

PO1 David M Burns — Sun, 12 Mar 2023 06:39:26 -0400

What negative paper work?never heard of the Marines making you go to the Marine ball.

Response by Sgt Stu Kopelman made May 8 at 2023 8:57 AM

Sgt Stu Kopelman — Mon, 08 May 2023 08:57:28 -0400

We want to obey the 'law', but a law must be in good standing with the conscience. There are many times we are commanded to do things, but what if the command was given without regard to what we knew was right or wrong? If, for example, I was told to go 70 MPH in a residential area where children were playing, I would know in my heart that such a command was not in good standing with what I knew was right. Each person must judge for himself whether the intention of the law is right or not.

A Communist soldier was thrown into prison for his misdeeds in the same cell with a Pastor who believed in God, so naturally the Pastor asked him if he was a believer. When he heard the soldier's reply, tears ran down his cheeks: "I will believe if I have orders to believe." How utterly tragic to be so brainwashed that a man could no longer think for himself. He had lost his own individuality; he was no longer able to distinguish right from wrong! We were not created robots.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made May 8 at 2023 8:33 PM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 08 May 2023 20:33:06 -0400

This sounds phony.

Response by COL Victor Hagan made May 9 at 2023 2:22 PM

COL Victor Hagan — Tue, 09 May 2023 14:22:37 -0400

I would recommend that he use the commander's open door policy because his NCO's are about to get themselves as well as the Commander jacked up. Because what they are doing is not only against all DoD regulations. I could make the arugment they are probably breaking state law.

Response by CPL Timothy Mcnabb made May 10 at 2023 8:17 PM

CPL Timothy Mcnabb — Wed, 10 May 2023 20:17:39 -0400

I have seen this many times. Never anything like bad paperwork but more like guess who has staff duty every other day for the month and will never get released on time.

Response by MSgt Earl King made May 13 at 2023 8:36 AM

MSgt Earl King — Sat, 13 May 2023 08:36:08 -0400

I have never heard of such a thing, the only problem I've ever had was when those civilians in the travel office tried to short-change me. Maybe he should have told his SNCOs, and SgtMAJ, problem solved, trust me!!

Response by Sgt Mervyn Russell made May 15 at 2023 7:17 AM

Sgt Mervyn Russell — Mon, 15 May 2023 07:17:37 -0400

I've been to the Marine Corps Ball, I've never paid for anything that the Marine Corps put together. Even beer bust it was all free. Of course, I was in the Marines way long before most of you were born.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made May 22 at 2023 10:46 AM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 22 May 2023 10:46:40 -0400

Short answer... no. Longer answer... still no.

It's also a quick way for the command to end up with an ethics investigation.