Can someone help me with an Article 91 question and provide some clarification?

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 13 Jul 2015 17:04:15 -0400

I'm a newly promoted SGT and I'm aware of what Article 91 says.. While on duty and in uniform around others I have no issues with soldiers . I'm generally liked and respected. But being that all these guys knew me as A SPC (P) just last month, I've came along situations where I have maybe made a correction in our tent (have not yet been moved to a NCO tent) and been disrespected while off duty and we are both out of uniform. Nothing horrible but still things I've herd said that they don't know I've overheard.. For example being referred to as "guy" in the disrespectful comment or a disrespectful joke said. May be a dumb question but is this something I should verbally council these guys on being that we are off duty and out of uniform? Still adjusting to my new position.

Response by SGT Matthew Ellis made Jul 13 at 2015 6:16 PM

SGT Matthew Ellis — Mon, 13 Jul 2015 18:16:54 -0400

You can always say something to them. Just because you're off duty, that doesn't mean your rank is gone. If guys are going to talk shit, they're going to talk shit. I would be more concerned if they intentionally made sure that you heard it or said it directly to you. Then you have a discipline problem to deal with. However, I don't know what specifically was actually taking place when you overheard them. If you are concerned about it and you know the individuals you can always pull them aside and just calmly remind them that it isn't cool, if you know what I mean. If it becomes an issue of blatant disrespect, then by all means make an example of them in front of the other guys. But sometimes guys just need to be reminded that the good old days of SPC Soandso are over.

I hope that is helpful to some degree, but honestly, given the vagueness of the situation you described it is a tough question to answer. There are a lot of different circumstances that would determine whether or not it is even worth your while to worry about, let alone what to do and how. You don't want to overreact and be that raving douche that no one respects, but you don't want to be that guy everyone walks all over.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Jul 13 at 2015 6:18 PM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Mon, 13 Jul 2015 18:18:29 -0400

You're in a tough spot. You are no longer among "peers" (Non-NCOs) however you are inside "their world" (the Tent).

The reason there is separate tents is so BOTH Non-NCOs and NCOs can relax and unwind away from each other. Your presence there "creates" tension in a fashion. They can't be themselves anymore, because the SGT is there, and you can't be yourself around the Troops, because you have to be the example.

So, you've got a few choices, and none of them are real winners. You can be the real hard ass. But keep in mind, you're in THEIR house. Sure, you aren't trying to make friends, but this won't win you respect either. You can ignore it... but then you might be seen as a pushover. A third option is Avoid the Place. Find somewhere else to bide your time until you move into the NCO tent, and just come in for actual rack time.

Any "flagrant" displays of disrespect, pull the offender off to the side (on the first one) "Let's go for a walk Specialist Snuffy", and light him up. Let him know it won't be tolerated, but you'd like to keep as cordial a "living arrangement" as possible, because "no one wants things to get ugly."

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 13 at 2015 6:20 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 13 Jul 2015 18:20:22 -0400

Yes, you need to counsel them IN WRITING. Even if this is happening during off duty time and out of uniform, you all are still on Army time. Regardless of living situations.

Response by PV2 Benjamin Niles made Jul 13 at 2015 6:40 PM

PV2 Benjamin Niles — Mon, 13 Jul 2015 18:40:08 -0400

As a PV2, if you feel disrespected as an NCO. But, not in a professional manner in uniform. Let another NCO witness it. But, I'd rather be "retrained" with PT.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 13 at 2015 6:41 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 13 Jul 2015 18:41:55 -0400

Make sure your SSG is aware of it and get their feedback and ensure they understand then you can push for a transfer to the NCO tent. You should expect some poor attitudes primarily due to jealousy but don't allow it to escalate to blatant disrespect, if it gets to that point it is beyond your ability to fix. (as they don't care what you say or do anywhat hence the blatant disrespect) Push for a transfer and earn respect from your superior NCO's.

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Jul 13 at 2015 6:43 PM

CAPT Kevin B. — Mon, 13 Jul 2015 18:43:13 -0400

Trash talk has two drivers. One is with the talker who may have their own head case agenda, jealousy, etc. But when you said "generally", you are likely the other driver. Given you're in transition, directing a correction lets the head cases think you're on a power trip. So low profile is recommended and corrections you should consider doing yourself saying "I don't want Top to frag our butts if he walks in and sees this." If it's a safety thing, go ahead and uncork. I don't agree with jumping into written counseling as that starts an early Hard-A reputation you likely don't want. Also you didn't mention if you have a NCO "Sea Daddy" that you can bounce the topic off of.

I had the ultimate "awkward" when I over night went from E-4 to O-1, and had to steam on my tin can. There was no room in O Country so the CPO community took me under their wing. I was one of two qualified Electronic Warfare crew so an officer was in the EW shack half the time. We got through it but I don't recommend this stuff long term. Good luck son.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 13 at 2015 6:44 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 13 Jul 2015 18:44:08 -0400

LOCK 'EM UP SERGEANT

Response by MSgt Robert Pellam made Jul 13 at 2015 10:16 PM

MSgt Robert Pellam — Mon, 13 Jul 2015 22:16:56 -0400

SGT Private RallyPoint Member Congratulations on becoming an NCO. It is one of the most demanding in the military. You ride an interesting line between the workers, and the managers. I am not going to tell you what to do as I don't know the whole story, and I was never in the Army. But being in the Air Force and eventually a SNCO I do have some advice that may or may not help.

One. No professional relationship you had before you became an NCO is the same as before. Many personal relationships are no longer the same. These are facts. Your ability to adapt to the change will help your transition faster but you will change.

Buddies who used to call you their friend will now try and take advantage of you. I am not saying all of them, but some will. Those above you who are now your equal will look down on you. Not all of them but some of them. You need to re-earn respect of those below and above you as an NCO.

Find a Mentor. Someone your senior who you can relate too. Mentors help tremendously. They have been there, they have done that. Find someone you trust and can respect. Those are key. If no one is around model your behavior after someone you have admired in the past. Mentors will come and go through out your life, so be prepared to change with them.

Develop thick skin. You will here "You changed!" in tones that will make you feel like you betrayed your nation. Let it roll off you like water on a ducks back. You are going to Change, you have to change, you are a NCO now. The responsibilities you are going to receive dwarf anything previously. Tackle them head on. Integrity is key as an NCO.

Finally be humble. Never forget where you came from. This last piece of advice is a make or break. Fear is nothing in this world but a temporary scape goat. Respect is your top prize here. IF a human fears you, they will do what you tell them in the least way possible. If they respect you, they will out perform themselves every time to earn your respect.

As I said, I honestly don't have any real advice for your situation. I wish I did. But if you respect your former peers, remember where you came from, know where you're going and know how to get there by earning respect yourself. You will be fine. I wish you luck Sgt Pidcock. You are entering a bigger world now.

Response by SSgt Charles Edwards made Jul 13 at 2015 11:44 PM

SSgt Charles Edwards — Mon, 13 Jul 2015 23:44:59 -0400

It may be a transition period for both parties. You are now in a supervisory position with more responsibility, but the guys you know still see you as one of them. My advice, lay down the law in uniform. Put it out there your expectations both on and off duty. I remember when I was promoted to sergeant. I was by the book and expected people to do their jobs on duty, but would loosen up when off. The trick is knowing when you have to stop being one of the guys and be a leader. After all, you're the one they will be trusting in to make sure they're squared away. You'll be fine. Don't be afraid to make mistakes. Seek guidance from the NCOs above you. Good luck and congrats.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 14 at 2015 12:15 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 14 Jul 2015 00:15:23 -0400

Thanks for all the input everyone. Much appreciated. I ended up just pulling them each aside and let them know what I've noticed. The two were apologized and even said they are just so used to us being on the same level that they both didn't even register in their minds what they were actually doing. They are both good soldiers so I understand, this time.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 2 at 2016 1:02 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 02 Mar 2016 13:02:49 -0500

I would suggest this. If these are your "Friends" from the past help shepherd them in a manner that best suits who you are. Pull them aside and tell them to help you out. It sucks being promoted ahead of your peers, but if you want a career it will sometimes be done.

If the issues persist get more deeply involved. Passing out LOC's and LOR's is not my style at first, but I always do document any form of verbal counseling on a Memorandum For Record.

Let your immediate supervisor know about the situation and that you want to handle it on your own. If your NCO(s) need a break down of how you are going to accomplish this, give it to them. Otherwise handle it on your own and be done with it.

Eventually, your buddies will either be promoted, get out, or get kicked out. If they get promoted help them along the way.

Lastly, it would not hurt to give your subordinates your expectations of them and get their expectations of you. In the beginning, Dress Right Dress everything and keep it professional. Eventually, you will find your way as a leader and figure out what style is best for you and your people.

Response by SFC Tom Crenshaw made Sep 15 at 2019 3:41 PM

SFC Tom Crenshaw — Sun, 15 Sep 2019 15:41:30 -0400

Be blunt and honest: I am a NCO and will enforce my rank and position. I have been mentored by seniors to make an example out of one of you to get the point across. Don't make me have to follow that advice and respect the rank... Or you may be " my example".