Posted on Jul 28, 2015
Can somebody require you get an APFT score above the Army standard before sending you to a school?
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Is it appropriate for anyone in a Soldier's NCO Support Channel or Chain of Command to demand they score a specific percentage above the Army standard on an APFT for school prior to approving or recommending approval of their school packet? Aside from certain specific schools such as Ranger School where you have to pass an APFT in the 18 yr/old bracket regardless of age, is not the minimum Army standard the standard period?
APFT
Fitness
Army Schools
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 14
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Standards are standards! However, sometimes leaders make decisions based on the idea that they are backed into a corner and have to set conditions to protect the organization (from embarrassment and unwanted bad press).
Do you want to understand why some Leaders/Units require more than the bare minimum? There are schools that when a NCO fails an APFT, the company 1SG and CSM are required to send a "RBI" directly to the SMA (Sergeant Major of the Army), that is right, from the unit to the top!
let's peel the onion back a little here....regardless if you agree or not, this was the root cause that led to the current environment....there were many NCOs that were "DA Selected" for Drill Sergeant & Recruiter duty, they showed up to school and intentionally failed the APFT and were sent back to home station (back to their platoon).....how was the SMA able to get around that epidemic - he made it painful, very painful on the unit when it happened. Many units then started "requiring" APFT scores above the minimum, and many required the NCO score above a 220 points.
Hopefully this makes the situation make a little more sense by understanding the background - regardless of the minimum standard, the environment presented some leaders with the feeling that they had to make changes to cover their butts.....I'm not asking if you agree, but, does it make a little more sense?
Do you want to understand why some Leaders/Units require more than the bare minimum? There are schools that when a NCO fails an APFT, the company 1SG and CSM are required to send a "RBI" directly to the SMA (Sergeant Major of the Army), that is right, from the unit to the top!
let's peel the onion back a little here....regardless if you agree or not, this was the root cause that led to the current environment....there were many NCOs that were "DA Selected" for Drill Sergeant & Recruiter duty, they showed up to school and intentionally failed the APFT and were sent back to home station (back to their platoon).....how was the SMA able to get around that epidemic - he made it painful, very painful on the unit when it happened. Many units then started "requiring" APFT scores above the minimum, and many required the NCO score above a 220 points.
Hopefully this makes the situation make a little more sense by understanding the background - regardless of the minimum standard, the environment presented some leaders with the feeling that they had to make changes to cover their butts.....I'm not asking if you agree, but, does it make a little more sense?
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SSG(P) (Join to see)
CSM I understand fully the RBI that has to be sent to the top from being a BN Schools NCO for a year. There are a lot of signature blocks that go along with the RBI and a snowball that rolls down quite some ways. However, if the standard is the standard then that should be that as it is so many other ways. If the individual performs prior to and then doesn't perform at that school then I fully believe that it is on them. Flag, bar, rehabilitate or chapter, the individual put his or herself in that position and there are regulations governing what should be done from there on out.
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Every unit I've been, in order for them to send you to a school, they would have soldiers score 10 points above the school or Army published standard.
Their reasoning was "to make sure when you take the pre-admission APFT you actually pass it"
In other words, the rationale is that School Cadre would be "more strict" in their scoring of say pushups or situps (whether you broke the plane or how horizontal is horizontal).
So, if you pass with a higher score at our unit APFT with our "non-cadre" scorers, in theory you should be able to pass with lower but more "strict" scorers.
Which is another way of saying "we want to cover our rear ends".
Army or specific school standard should be the only standard, not individual units or commands.
Their reasoning was "to make sure when you take the pre-admission APFT you actually pass it"
In other words, the rationale is that School Cadre would be "more strict" in their scoring of say pushups or situps (whether you broke the plane or how horizontal is horizontal).
So, if you pass with a higher score at our unit APFT with our "non-cadre" scorers, in theory you should be able to pass with lower but more "strict" scorers.
Which is another way of saying "we want to cover our rear ends".
Army or specific school standard should be the only standard, not individual units or commands.
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
This also covers any regional "acclimation" or travel issues that may arise. A bad day can lose you a minute on the run, or 5 sit-ups. Those 10 points is not "unreasonable" to ensure CYA for everyone involved.
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Airborne school actually requires that all individuals take and pass the APFT in the 18-21 y/o bracket once they get to Benning.
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SGT (Join to see)
SSG Ryan Rodney you are absolutly correct, I apologize as I misread the original posting and overlooked where he said aside from ranger school. I thought he was including it.
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