Can somebody be a Jump Master and non-tabbed SF guy?

SSG Kyle Shelton — Fri, 30 Jan 2015 07:21:41 -0500

As I spent most of my career overseas and with Stryker Brigades, I'm not too familiar with JumpMaster Qualifications. Can anyone with over 100 jumps earn that title or does MOS matter. Also for all the non-tabbed SF patch guys do they actually become associated with SF in any official way...like being welcomed to their "Safe Houses" in the public world/civilian world? I'm referring to the same soldier in both inquiries who was NOT a Combat MOS. He's selling it, but I'm not buying it. Any help is appreciated even if it supports him. I just want to know the truth on the matter. We always "kicked sand" at the tabless "SF" terds!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 30 at 2015 8:36 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 30 Jan 2015 20:36:11 -0500

To the Jumpmaster part of your question I personally know a 92F and a 91X who are Jumpmasters so yes support MOS's can attain the title and Master parachutist badge.

Response by LTC Yinon Weiss made Jan 30 at 2015 9:21 PM

LTC Yinon Weiss — Fri, 30 Jan 2015 21:21:58 -0500

For jumpmaster school, you have to be in a jump billet. This includes both combat and non-combat MOS Soldiers. I believe you only need 12 or more jumps (or something closer to that... nothing close to a 100) in order to attend jumpmaster school, with a combination of night jumps and combat equipment jumps before you go.

As far as as your question about being welcomed to "safe houses" -- this is a bit more ambiguous. SF support personnel are respected by SF Soldiers, but are definitely not considered precisely the same as tabbed Soldiers when it comes to common social or professional relationships. This is not meant to be a sign of disrespect, just a distinction that certain members of the community have earned. There can always be exceptions though, and probably would be if a support soldier served shoulder to shoulder in combat with his SF colleagues and proved himself in combat.

Again, this is not to take away from the support Soldiers. They are very much needed and good support Soldiers are highly appreciated. But there is still very much a distinction when it comes to things like reunions, etc.

Response by SSG Kyle Shelton made Jan 30 at 2015 9:25 PM

SSG Kyle Shelton — Fri, 30 Jan 2015 21:25:03 -0500

I still find it impossible for any non-tabbed support dildier to think they deserve or earned the right to include their motto on keychains, profiles, their verbal military service or to be RECOGNIZED SF Brothers to be welcomed into their SF "Houses" aka Safe Houses around the States.....

Response by COL Jason Smallfield, PMP, CFM, CM made Jan 30 at 2015 9:29 PM

COL Jason Smallfield, PMP, CFM, CM — Fri, 30 Jan 2015 21:29:43 -0500

- Don't remember the reg so below are from memory.
- 100 jumps alone is not enough to be a master jumpmaster (master wings).
- There is no MOS requirement. Any MOS can earn the below qualifications/ratings.
- Airborne Wings. Graduate Airborne School, complete five jumps.
- Senior Airborne Wings. Graduate from Advanced Airborne School (12 high performance jumps, 12 months on status to get into school), 35 jumps with specific number of tactical, combat, and other types of jumps; be an assistant jumpmaster on a jump.
- Master Airborne Wings. All the qualifications to be senior rater with the following: 65 jumps (specific number of tactical, combat, other jumps); be a primary jumpmaster on a jump.
- Non Tabbed SF patch guys. No clue. I do not know the "SF secret handshake".

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 31 at 2015 4:36 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 31 Jan 2015 04:36:37 -0500

SSG Kyle Shelton, it is not 100 Jumps that qualifies you as a Jump Master.

You need to be a Graduate of an approved Advanced Airborne Course currently based in two locations (Fort Benning, and Fort Bragg). Now USASOC does conduct their own JM Course as well since they SF Unique guidelines.

As far as Jump numbers goes it is a combination of specific jumps and Jump Master duties which qualifies an individual. Yes, any Leader serving in an AIRBORNE position can attend the JM Course.

I cannot state for the "Safe House" comment. I will state that I ave been awarded an "S" identifier for being assigned to Special Forces along with some other requirements with the assignment.

Do not quote me but I believe that if a support Soldier joined the SF Association they would be able to attend events there.

I am still in contact with individuals with whom I worked with during my time with the SF Community. The only reason I did not get to change over is due to needing physical waivers.

I have to agree with LTC Yinon Weiss, anyone who needs to brag about it is probably not fully truthful. The SF Motto is "Quiet Professional" for a reason and if you have ever worked with them you would understand it.

Response by SGT Steven Eugene Kuhn MBA made Jan 31 at 2015 7:55 AM

SGT Steven Eugene Kuhn MBA — Sat, 31 Jan 2015 07:55:15 -0500

Reading the comments it seems you are looking for a reason to fry this guy, that means your intuition is speaking to you and intuition is always right. If you feel he is full of it, call him on it in a "safe" situation where no one is around so he is not forced to react with his chest out and head down.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 31 at 2015 10:37 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 31 Jan 2015 10:37:44 -0500

SSG Shelton

To answer your questions, BLUF, there is no such thing as a non-tabbed SF guy and you cannot become a Jumpmaster unless you have been to and graduated from a Ft Benning recognized Jumpmaster course.

For the Jump Master, it doesn't matter how many jumps you have, how long you have been on status, or how long you have been in an airborne unit, you will never be a jump master unless you have graduated the course. It also doesn't matter is you have done a combat jump.

For the SF issue, unless the guy holds an 18 series MOS, he isn't SF. He may have been SF support or he may have been a prior 18 series that has had his tab revocated due to disciplinary actions that have brought discredit to the regiment. SF units aren't like the Ranger Regiment where a Soldier can be a Ranger but not have a Ranger tab. For them the Soldier is a 11B, usually like a Private through Specialist, that hasn't been to Ranger school yet. To ad though, we have some very high quality support Soldiers that have done outstanding jobs and have been reassigned due to normal Army PCSs. I have had support attached to my team that were golden and have since PCSs for career progression. They are still in good standing with the unit and probably still have contact with the men they have served with.

If this guy is at your unit and is boasting claims like being a "Jump Master" and how he was a Non-Tabbed SF guy, I'd be suspicious and he is probably trying to get attention that he hasn't earned.

Hope this helps and not too wordy.

Response by MAJ David Vermillion made Jan 31 at 2015 2:31 PM

MAJ David Vermillion — Sat, 31 Jan 2015 14:31:26 -0500

I remember being assigned to the 82nd Abn Div in 1972 and I went through the Jumpmaster Course at Fort Bragg. You are right, you could attend the course and I don't remember there being a requirement for jumps prior to attending. I also remember going through the Special Forces training as an enlisted person back in 1966 and there were people in the Headquarters support groups who didn't go through SF training. So to answer your question, yes there were people assigned to SF who didn't earn a tab.

Response by PO2 Steven Erickson made Jan 31 at 2015 7:59 PM

PO2 Steven Erickson — Sat, 31 Jan 2015 19:59:13 -0500

SSG Kyle Shelton, I'm a Navy puke. Never did nuthin' but boil water, push electrons and punch holes in the water.

I've read every word in all of these posts, and I've come to an incredibly intuitive conclusion.

Now's a good time for someone in your current situation to "... fold it, cut it, wrap it and make it a combo..."

Just sayin'...

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 11 at 2015 5:55 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 11 Apr 2015 05:55:53 -0400

I am a support MOS in a SF Unit and a JM. We kick sand at legs and senior NCO's who are not Jumpmasters.

Response by SSG Thomas Brousseau made Apr 11 at 2015 6:08 AM

SSG Thomas Brousseau — Sat, 11 Apr 2015 06:08:23 -0400