Can NCOs give you a lawful order about a non-military related matter?

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 22 Jan 2019 15:29:43 -0500

Can an NCO give you a "lawful" order to talk to civilian police about a personal investigation? I feel that violates my civic rights. Also I refused to speak with that NCO about the investigation over the weekend after the fact. Can NCO'S give you a lawful order about non-military related matter? Do they have jurisdiction at all in those matters and do i have to talk to them? And if I don't is, that grounds for UCMJ? Shes trying to throw in that I disrespected her for not talking to her about it as well .

Response by MAJ Bryan Zeski made Jan 22 at 2019 3:56 PM

MAJ Bryan Zeski — Tue, 22 Jan 2019 15:56:11 -0500

I'd make an appointment with your JAG. I'd also keep your mouth shut until you talk to them.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 22 at 2019 4:43 PM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 22 Jan 2019 16:43:10 -0500

You are in the military - there is NOTHING that's not military-related if you're involved.

That said, it's a sticky situation for other reasons. I think I would be the one talking to the JAG before I gave the order.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 22 at 2019 5:11 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 22 Jan 2019 17:11:31 -0500

The NCO creed states ...”I will not use my grade not position to obtain pleasure, profit or personal safety...”

Having said that, take everyone’s advice and call JAG.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 22 at 2019 5:26 PM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 22 Jan 2019 17:26:01 -0500

Seeing the JAG is sound advice. And, the 5th amendment and also an article in the UCMJ gives one the right to say nothing Sorry, I forget the article number in the UCMJ, but, I know there is one.

I think it is article 31.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 22 at 2019 5:46 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 22 Jan 2019 17:46:49 -0500

If you are the one under investigation, the only thing you should say to the civilian police is: I invoke my 4th, 5th, and 6th Amendment rights."
The only thing you should say to any military member, whether your supervisor, MPs, CID, Cdr, is: "I invoke my 5th Amendment and Article 31 right to remain silent "
Then, you should seek legal counsel. JAG for the issue of refusing to talk about the matter with your supervisor, and the matter at issue with the civilian law enforcement. (JAG won't represent you with civilian authorities. )
A defense attorney, or public defender, regarding the matter at issue with the civilian authorities.
After you've spoken with JAG and/or a defense attorney, don't speak to ANYONE about the matter, and refer questions to them.
Your supervisor erred if she failed to advise you of your rights.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 22 at 2019 7:13 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 22 Jan 2019 19:13:09 -0500

Comment is edited in lieu of the emotional distress this comment has caused some of you gentlemen who continue to rant and reply out of context. Best of luck to you all.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Jan 22 at 2019 8:08 PM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Tue, 22 Jan 2019 20:08:49 -0500

Talk to JAG.

That said, your NCO may "think" she is "trying" to help YOU or possibly the command by giving said order. However, once you have spoken, you cannot unspeak those words. Talk to JAG.

Response by LTC Jason Mackay made Jan 23 at 2019 12:16 AM

LTC Jason Mackay — Wed, 23 Jan 2019 00:16:41 -0500

Table all that for a second. Here’s another way this could go down. The local police arrive at the MP station with a warrant for your arrest. They call your CoC and have you post at the HQ, then you get Mirandized, cuffed, and stuffed in front of your unit. Then you will be flagged awaiting out come of a civil trial where your civic rights are observed at a glacial DA regulated pace that is half the speed of smell.

Response by CPT Lawrence Cable made Jan 23 at 2019 5:35 AM

CPT Lawrence Cable — Wed, 23 Jan 2019 05:35:25 -0500

I guess I need to point out that there is a difference between self incrimination and not cooperating with an investigation. You are not required to answer questions that may show your guilt and if it were anything beyond a speeding ticket, I would get a lawyer to be there during the interview. You NCO certainly has the right to know at least the nature of the investigation and is probably directed by the COC to report certain civilian legal events, especially any involving drugs, alcohol or any domestic incident. Beyond that, again, consult with a lawyer.
There is damn little that the military considers outside of their authority when you sign on the line.

Response by MSG Frank Kapaun made Jan 23 at 2019 1:40 PM

MSG Frank Kapaun — Wed, 23 Jan 2019 13:40:38 -0500

A&E Network has two shows, The First 48 an Live PD. Every week someone on one of those shows talks themselves into a trip to either jail or prison. My dos centavos, see JAG and lawyer up.

Response by MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P made Jan 23 at 2019 10:55 PM

MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P — Wed, 23 Jan 2019 22:55:28 -0500

Practice saying this phrase: "I plead the 5th to any question you ask. I also invoke my right to have an attorney present." NEVER TALK TO THE POLICE/DETECTIVE/CID/NCIS/OSI/FBI/ETC WITHOUT HAVING LEGAL COUNSEL PRESENT!!! EVER!! And this is coming from a former police officer (both military and civilian).

Now that being said, yes, your CoC can order you to respond to an investigative authority. What they CAN NOT do is force you to give incriminating statements without the benefit of legal counsel present. My suggestion would be to tactfully inform your NCO and/or Officer that you will be happy to speak with an investigator just as soon as you can retain the services of a qualified attorney. And for Pete's Sake, if your lawyer tells you to shut your mouth, DO EXACTLY THAT!!