Can Military Police pull people over off base?

SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 03 Mar 2016 11:49:03 -0500

I've been pulled over by Military Police before off base on a public highway, but near the base. Do jurisdictions vary state by state/ base by base?

Response by SSG Ed Mikus made Mar 3 at 2016 11:55 AM

SSG Ed Mikus — Thu, 03 Mar 2016 11:55:13 -0500

post boundaries seldom line up with the post gates/fences. there should be a 3 foot by 2 foot white sign telling you that you are now on military property and are subject to military jurisdiction. this often includes public roads around the country but on to your question, yes every installation makes their own arraignment with the state with regards to jurisdiction lines for policing duties.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 3 at 2016 11:57 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 03 Mar 2016 11:57:50 -0500

Hi, SPC Bernardy.

If the MPs maintain some concurrent jurisdiction with the local authorities, they can pull you over.

Response by SN Greg Wright made Mar 3 at 2016 12:04 PM

SN Greg Wright — Thu, 03 Mar 2016 12:04:29 -0500

When I got in a wreck in Japan the local police had the MP's come get me. Not the same thing, I know.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Mar 3 at 2016 12:07 PM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Thu, 03 Mar 2016 12:07:26 -0500

Yes. It's not about the bases "physical boundaries" but the MP's "jurisdictional control" (coordinated with the State).

As an example, I live near MCB Quantico. The bases' actual physical limits are very defined, however there are places which are "controlled" by the base. This includes the Marine Corps Museum (located right outside the main gate in Triangle VA) and the area between Mainside and TBS (I95 is between the two halves).

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 3 at 2016 12:19 PM

SCPO Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 03 Mar 2016 12:19:23 -0500

In addition to the "Yes" replies you've gotten, there is also the issue of felony or hot pursuit. Now, I believe you are talking about traffic violations. Others have mentioned physical boundaries v. jurisdictional control. Plus, the MPs can purse you off-base if the infraction was committed on-base. Generally, at that point they will be getting on some Mutual Aid police frequency and alerting the locals that they are chasing someone off-base. When the locals join the chase, they will also take charge over the pursuit, and the MPs will drop off and follow at a safe distance. All this I know from having been a local police officer near an airbase and also being a Reserve MP on that same base.

When you say "people," MPs have jurisdiction over ANYONE on base or within their jurisdictional control. Completely off base, NO, they have no authority to stop anyone. They are just a fancy military vehicle with a light bar!!!

Response by SPC Paul Jennings, J.D. made Mar 3 at 2016 12:23 PM

SPC Paul Jennings, J.D. — Thu, 03 Mar 2016 12:23:05 -0500

It varies. Jurisdictional boundaries near the base are normally exclusive or concurrent in nature. With a concurrent jurisdiction, federal authorities and locals are able to perform police activities in the same area. However, normally one agency is seen as the primary one for these areas and, therefore, is the primary responder. Additionally, police powers are usually spelt out in statute and can sometimes be very broad. For example, while this rarely occurs, a military police officer could technically enforce UCMJ authority over a soldier completely outside of the federal property lines.

As for JBLM, I-5 runs through the federal instillation and is concurrent jurisdiction. WSP normally patrols this area, but remember jurisdiction attaches when an offense is committed. So if you were speeding as you left the base, jurisdiction is federal and a stop can be initiated off the base if needed. Also, there is no requirement that signs be posted informing you that you are subject to federal jurisdiction or on federal property. This would only apply for entry into restricted areas and possible trespassing charges.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 3 at 2016 12:49 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 03 Mar 2016 12:49:15 -0500

Yes and no, depends on the relationship the base has with local authorities regarding jurisdictional operation.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 3 at 2016 1:39 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 03 Mar 2016 13:39:01 -0500

Depends on how far out your jurisdiction goes and relationship with local authorities. Like here at FLW one of the gates you can go about 1/2-3/4 a mile out side of it and still pull people over. There'll be a sign stating the restricted area, etc

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 3 at 2016 2:07 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 03 Mar 2016 14:07:41 -0500

Only if they have Concurrent Jurisdiction in that specific area. Also, there will be Local Policies and Guidelines about how to conduct stops on civilians or while off base.

I would only tell you to stay away from mixing your MP Duties with that of Local Law Enforcement. But grow a relationship with them. They have training, free training you can do.

Response by MCPO Roger Collins made Mar 3 at 2016 2:32 PM

MCPO Roger Collins — Thu, 03 Mar 2016 14:32:21 -0500

Does the Hawaiian Armed Service Police (HASP) still exist, they used to patrol Honolulu just as the local police did. And guess what? They would take you in the alley and teach you respect frequently.

Response by SGM Robert Speakman made Mar 3 at 2016 3:07 PM

SGM Robert Speakman — Thu, 03 Mar 2016 15:07:28 -0500

They could when I was in the service 1957-1985, so they are in the right

Response by GySgt Carl Rumbolo made Mar 3 at 2016 4:29 PM

GySgt Carl Rumbolo — Thu, 03 Mar 2016 16:29:12 -0500

If a public road transits a military installation then the military police have jurisdiction to pull you over. A good example if US 24 which runs through Fort Bragg. Prior to 9/11 NC 172 could be used to cut through Camp Lejeune, how ever that road was closed to non-DOD traffic shortly afterwards.

I understand that there has been some discussion around closing the portion of NC 24 that cuts through Fort Bragg once the bypass loop is completed.

Response by SFC Thomas Howes made Mar 3 at 2016 4:57 PM

SFC Thomas Howes — Thu, 03 Mar 2016 16:57:20 -0500

Well I know in Texas were I was a cop the MP's had on jurisdictions off base matter of fact if they were chasing some one they would call ahead to have us at the gate to stop them

Response by COL Charles Williams made Mar 3 at 2016 8:23 PM

COL Charles Williams — Thu, 03 Mar 2016 20:23:52 -0500

SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member Yes, the do vary everywhere. This all depends on the jurisdictional rules, which vary from state to state. Some places are exclusive, some are concurrent. Yes, they vary by installation, city, county and state. I suspect that road you mentioned is concurrent jurisdiction.

Response by SrA Matthew Knight made Mar 4 at 2016 7:10 AM

SrA Matthew Knight — Fri, 04 Mar 2016 07:10:56 -0500

I think it depends on the circumstances. For example, someone speeding on a highway that goes past a base can't be pulled over by military police for speeding and definitely can't be written up by MPs (especially if the person themselves isn't military).

Now on the other hand, someone who was speeding on base but exiting the base (so now on public roads) can be pulled over by MPs within a reasonable distance usually. The on base cops at Scott AFB did this a lot, they would run radar towards the line of people leaving and they would pull people over out of the base lines for the offense. My understanding at Scott was that they had I want to say a one mile limit off base that they could still cover.

Response by SSG James Hunt made Mar 5 at 2016 1:07 AM

SSG James Hunt — Sat, 05 Mar 2016 01:07:51 -0500

Yes, If the MPs maintain some concurrent jurisdiction with the local authorities, they can pull you over.

Response by PFC Tuan Trang made Mar 6 at 2016 6:13 AM

PFC Tuan Trang — Sun, 06 Mar 2016 06:13:09 -0500

From what i know, military police can pull off base if you commit something big, other then that local police should involve not mp.

Response by SFC Shane Funkhouser made Mar 6 at 2016 7:27 PM

SFC Shane Funkhouser — Sun, 06 Mar 2016 19:27:49 -0500

Yes they do and as previously stated just because you went out the gate doesn't necessarily mean that you are off the post.
Ft. Bragg is a good example when you are traveling highway 690 a good portion of it is on the Ft. Bragg footprint. It is paroled by N.C. state police local Moore County sheriffs department, Cumberland County sheriff's department and M.P.s.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 6 at 2016 10:04 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 06 Mar 2016 22:04:13 -0500

Shouldn't.

Response by PVT Raymond Lopez made Mar 6 at 2016 11:53 PM

PVT Raymond Lopez — Sun, 06 Mar 2016 23:53:57 -0500

Are you in uniform or does your vehicle have a military base sticker?

Response by SPC Dennis Escobar made Mar 22 at 2016 12:36 PM

SPC Dennis Escobar — Tue, 22 Mar 2016 12:36:52 -0400

If the road is in the area of the base like the bridge entrance/ exit in I -5 near the main gate and surrounding areas like the bridge crossing to camp murray, they can do it. Furthermore. All mayor interstate under federal jurisdictions like the I - 5 corridor or I - 90, the actually can stop you... Is up to them really.

Response by SFC Wade W. made Mar 22 at 2016 3:10 PM

SFC Wade W. — Tue, 22 Mar 2016 15:10:01 -0400

If you violated the law on the installation and the MP can maintain a visual on your vehicle they can "pursue you to the ends of the Earth" as one of my PM's used to say. He did not want people to believe the old myth that if they made it off base they were good to go.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 22 at 2016 4:06 PM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 22 Mar 2016 16:06:29 -0400

Where did the violation occur?

Response by MAJ Jim Woods made Mar 22 at 2016 5:53 PM

MAJ Jim Woods — Tue, 22 Mar 2016 17:53:32 -0400

If they have been granted local jurisdiction within the confines of the County/City they can.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 23 at 2016 8:16 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 23 Mar 2016 08:16:51 -0400

Usually they patrol to the first intersection out of the main gates. The post extends further out than the gates.

Response by PVT Ryan P. Quirk made Mar 23 at 2016 5:35 PM

PVT Ryan P. Quirk — Wed, 23 Mar 2016 17:35:35 -0400

No. Military Police Have NO authority off base (except during a military mission). I am a retired Police Sgt. from Washington State. Washington State does not recognize Military Police as being a certified law enforcement officer. The military MOS does not give them recognition to do a lateral transfer to a civilian police job. Hence when a MP gets out and attempts to become a Civilian police officer. Their training does not give them any additional lateral transfer points to the job. MP's are just another civilian without any lawful authority off base.... This being said. That may not be true in other states. But in Washington State... Military Police Have NO Authority or legal jurisdiction off base.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 29 at 2016 5:59 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 29 Mar 2016 05:59:04 -0400

Yes

Response by SGT Carlos Stinson made Mar 30 at 2016 9:46 AM

SGT Carlos Stinson — Wed, 30 Mar 2016 09:46:34 -0400

They can pull you over off the freeway or any road that skirts the base.

Response by SSG Chuck Lippman made Mar 31 at 2016 10:48 AM

SSG Chuck Lippman — Thu, 31 Mar 2016 10:48:06 -0400

If you are endagering yourself or others it is their duty to pull you over and detain until the local authorities arrive as the local athourities have main jurisdiction. Thelocal authorities can then relinquish jurisdiction over to the MP, s if they so chose.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 25 at 2016 1:05 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 25 Apr 2016 13:05:10 -0400

SPC Bernardy,
It seems that everyone has pretty much answered your question. In regards to JBLM specifically, there are many places around the base that are part of the base and are outside the gate. I live in Spanaway and I was pulled over for speeding outside of the East Gate, across the McKenna-Yelm Highway.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 27 at 2016 11:13 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 Apr 2016 11:13:00 -0400

They usually share jurisdiction with local police in certain cases. Sometimes they have roads that they share concurrent jurisdiction.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 24 at 2016 6:48 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 24 May 2016 06:48:13 -0400

It depends on the Status of Forces Agreements between the U.S. and the host nation. Generally speaking, if you commit an offense on base, MPs are allowed to pursue you to the base boundary, after that they will coordinate with civilian police to arrest you.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 30 at 2016 5:03 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 30 May 2016 17:03:20 -0400

Yes for example JBLM. There is the main post and a nort fort. Regardless if you go the back way or through the gate for north fort, you will be going under Interstate 5. If you look at a map prior to I5, all that land is still under JBLM. A lot of roads even at other installations run through or along side a Military installation where they gave permission for the state to build a road or interstate. Long story short, ifyou are on land regardless you see it is a public highway, MPs or Security Forces are allowed to pull you over.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 2 at 2016 7:25 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 02 Aug 2016 19:25:00 -0400

It depends on concurrent jurisdiction. Take bragg for example, when we do le there, we have a span of 6 counties. If it happens up to bragg Blvd. It's ours, across bragg, it's fayetteville. It just depends on the agreement with lle.

Response by PFC Mona Maggart-Cabrera made Dec 2 at 2016 4:24 PM

PFC Mona Maggart-Cabrera — Fri, 02 Dec 2016 16:24:20 -0500

No they do not have jurisdiction unless you commuted offense on base and the base has a reciprocal agreement with local pd

Response by SFC Pete Kain made Dec 2 at 2016 5:23 PM

SFC Pete Kain — Fri, 02 Dec 2016 17:23:50 -0500

Depends on the Base. But short answer is yes.

Response by SGT Morrison (Mike) Hogwood made Dec 2 at 2016 5:43 PM

SGT Morrison (Mike) Hogwood — Fri, 02 Dec 2016 17:43:38 -0500

There is an area in the I495 corridor of Maryland if you are pulled over by the State Police you will be going to court at Ft Meade MD.

Response by SMSgt Lawrence McCarter made Feb 5 at 2017 2:52 AM

SMSgt Lawrence McCarter — Sun, 05 Feb 2017 02:52:25 -0500

The jurisdiction can vary a lot from State to state or bases. Some roads both civilian and Military Police may have jurisdiction. A lot breaks down to what agreement the Military and civilian community have with each other. The rules may vary also on pursuits and although out of a jurisdiction if the chase started within their own area that doesn't mean they can't pursue You, stop You and issue a ticket or even take apprehend You. (take You into custody) That also may depend however on local policy or agreements.

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Feb 5 at 2017 11:47 AM

Lt Col Jim Coe — Sun, 05 Feb 2017 11:47:28 -0500

Hummm? Not all military property is inside the base fence. You might have been on Federal property without knowing it. Sounds very unusual otherwise. Law enforcement outside of the Federal Reservation is normally left to the local Sheriff or Police Department. Might be an exception if you were endanger the lives of others or yourself by your actions.

Response by SSG Warren Armitage made Mar 20 at 2017 11:09 PM

SSG Warren Armitage — Mon, 20 Mar 2017 23:09:37 -0400

Interesting because the mp's used to pull people over for interfering with a military convoy going from ft carson to pinion canyon for training but the tickets always got thrown out because according to the judge which was a federal judge had told the military police that they had no authority off of a military reservation.

Response by SSG Matthew Koehler made Mar 21 at 2017 1:05 AM

SSG Matthew Koehler — Tue, 21 Mar 2017 01:05:57 -0400

My big question: Can a retired MP carry his privately owned and licensed firearm, under HR218, anywhere in the country?

Response by SPC David Ulven made Mar 23 at 2017 11:38 PM

SPC David Ulven — Thu, 23 Mar 2017 23:38:08 -0400

Yes, with certain limitations. In 1975 while stationed at JBLM I once chased a guy off post until he crashed on the I-5 overpass outside the main gate without repercussions.

Response by SFC Timothy N. Livengood made Apr 7 at 2017 9:24 PM

SFC Timothy N. Livengood — Fri, 07 Apr 2017 21:24:39 -0400

Typically, if there was a violation observed on base/post and the lights and/or emergency equipment was activated on the federal installation pursuit is usually acceptable. However, we used to make contact with KSP (Kentucky State Police) to advise of our current position or request dispatch to make contact with KSP to advise.

Response by MAJ Sheldon Smith made Apr 20 at 2017 2:58 PM

MAJ Sheldon Smith — Thu, 20 Apr 2017 14:58:51 -0400

MP in many cases have secondary jurisdiction outside of the base. That being said, they can perform law enforcement functions off of but in close proximity to the base.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 11 at 2017 9:29 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 11 Jun 2017 21:29:20 -0400

Here on Fort Eustis I've initiated a stop and followed a person off post. (They didn't hear or see the sirens supposedly! Guess they didn't think we would continue to follow) The local PD will even stop and check on you from what I hear. As long as the violation occurred on post I don't think it's an issue. As for enforcement for off post violations the Posse Comitatus Act states that you cannot. There are however some exclusions. Life limb eyesight National Security etc etc.

Response by SGT Christopher Lachcik made Aug 31 at 2017 8:35 AM

SGT Christopher Lachcik — Thu, 31 Aug 2017 08:35:29 -0400

Fort Bliss has off post housing that we patrol, at least when I was there, and we can pull you over anywhere in those areas and the hospital.

Response by SFC James Heath made Dec 19 at 2018 3:48 PM

SFC James Heath — Wed, 19 Dec 2018 15:48:32 -0500

It depends on installation jurisdiction. Usually not and definitely not while driving a POV. Your duty authority is only effective while you are on uniform duty. Sorry Kodak.

Response by SFC James Heath made Dec 19 at 2018 3:51 PM

SFC James Heath — Wed, 19 Dec 2018 15:51:17 -0500

There is a “pursuit” law in each state. Depends what the jurisdiction of the installation is with regard to that state.

Response by SSG Robert Ricci made Aug 23 at 2019 12:57 PM

SSG Robert Ricci — Fri, 23 Aug 2019 12:57:03 -0400

It isn't just traffic stops.

As a United States Army Military Police traffic accident investigator (Q9), let me see if I can explain it.

The military police have absolute control on base. I think that's a given. But have you ever seen a civilian police car on post?

The question is whether or not they have authority off base. Two topics have been brought up here. First is that the boundaries of a military base don't necessarily follow the fence lines. You can't necessarily go based on that. Second, not mentioned, is the fact that many military installations have off post housing. The military police most certainly have jurisdiction in those areas which means that they need to use non-military roads to get to those housing areas. They certainly have authority to do that and often times it might be lights and siren depending on the event. Citizens in that Community are required to yield to an emergency vehicle just as if it were a non-military first responder. I had a pursuit that went off post and the guy obviously thought that I couldn't follow once he was outside the gates. He found out how wrong he was. The city police were patched in and we boxed him in and that was the end of that.

Lastly, the term "cconcurrent jurisdiction" was brought up and that is the most accurate. Based on a MOU, a memorandum of understanding, with the county sheriff of the location and which the military installation is located grants concurrent jurisdiction to the military police. This for example gives MPs the ability to do Whitehat patrols down in the bar district for example or prostitution district of a particular City they may be working in. It's not restricted to just traffic control. If off base and you observe a traffic violation and the vehicle that you observed the violation from bears a current base ID sticker you may pull that vehicle over based on the credible assumption that the occupants are in the military.

Response by MSG Gary Eckert made Oct 8 at 2019 1:19 PM

MSG Gary Eckert — Tue, 08 Oct 2019 13:19:27 -0400

I have read a lot of anecdotal evidence that make it seem as if the OP situation can happen. It should not happen, AR 190-5, OPNAV 11200.5D/AFI 31–218(I)/MCO 5110.1D/DLAR 5720.1 are concurrent regulations and para 4-17 says "In areas not under military control, civil authorities enforce traffic laws." This makes sense to me, since the early 80's minor traffic violations occurring on base are referred to Federal District Court rather than handled under the UCMJ. The federal magistrate would not have jurisdiction for a traffic violation that happened off base on a public highway.

Response by SSG Robert "Rob" Wentworth made Oct 31 at 2019 8:41 AM

SSG Robert "Rob" Wentworth — Thu, 31 Oct 2019 08:41:40 -0400

MP's generally have no jurisdiction offpost. If there is cause to think there might be loss of life/casualty
to a soldier/civilian, it would be proper to step in using " civic duty", and a possible citizens arrest if absolutely necessary where the above were in question.

Response by Chris Vinci made Feb 9 at 2020 9:02 AM

Chris Vinci — Sun, 09 Feb 2020 09:02:10 -0500

In nearly every case such as this, the person 'thinks' the roadway they're on is off base. The roadway you were on (I don't know what road you in fact were on or what base) may have seemed off base as indicated by a nearby fence line separating a 'primary' portion of the base from another. For example, in the 1950s', civilian authorities asked the air force to keep Wrightstown/Cookstown Road (a road paralel the McGuire AFB NJ 'open to the public' after a full fence line was being constructed around what had been an 'open base'. But this fence would have cut off Wrightstown from Cookstown requiring a long trip around the perimeter for anyone traveling between these towns. Town officials worried this cut off would ruin the small economies of their respective towns. Indeed, this very thing did indeed happen to Wrightstown when it ended up being cut off from straight access to Browns Mills (another nearby town) when (after the '911' attacks) Fort Dix enclosed the main portion of the post with fencing and posted gate guards. Wrightstown is a dead town today. The Air Force kept the road 'open for public access and thoroughfare' under the provision that 'primary maintenance and law enforcement activities' will be through civil authorities. That is why you'll see county snow plows and New Hanover Police primarily on that road. To many people however, it appears - based on where they see the fence - that the authority begins at the fence line. Legal demarcations begin on documents. But a fence is all everyday people have to go on. Also, '10 Unites States Code § 2672'(available publicly) details specifically that when a 'military need exists' (military purpose doctrine) - and there is a nexus connecting a given civilians' activity with the interests of the military, the military 'can' stop you.
(1) The Secretary of Defense may designate military or civilian personnel of the Department of Defense as officers and agents to perform the functions of the Secretary under subsection (a), including, with regard to civilian officers and agents, duty in areas outside the property specified in that subsection to the extent necessary to protect that property and persons on that property.
But what type of activity? If a person is standing on the edge of military property or even across the street, and video taping activity (v.i.p. entrance times, delivery specifics, guard shift change times, etc.), photographing physical layout of entrances and exits, making sketches, etc. - this is not miscellaneous everyday activity. It is surveillance. Many towns abutting these bases are staffed with extremely small police departments. Some aren't staffed 24 hrs a day. Some towns don't have a police department at all. And in those cases, the nearest state police or county officer could be 20 minutes away. By that time, a person gathering useful intelligence could be long gone. If s car driving on that road that substantialy fits the description of a vehicle wanted for a felony in a nearby town is worthy of being stopped by military police. Imagine a missing juvenile abducted by a person driving a certain vehicle from the next town over. And a minutes later a vehicle fitting that description is in the road in question with a military police car behind it. Only a facetious person would argue the military police should leave that to civil authorities. Now imagine that child is your own - and the military police didn't stop that car for considerations that place the safety of the child below other considerations. Of course - the person being stopped - and ONLY the person being stopped knows whether or not 'they' are the one who abducted the juvenile. Hence the need to 'stop & check'. Other times, there are formal 'memorandums of understanding' agreements legaly established for mutual support for certain specific reasons unique to that location. With this in mind, no violation of the 'Posse Comitatus Act' is committed. Yes, they can stop you.

Response by PO3 Scot Fahey made Feb 15 at 2020 4:15 PM

PO3 Scot Fahey — Sat, 15 Feb 2020 16:15:14 -0500

Mutual Aid Agreements. Also, public roads often cross DOD property outside the securely fenced area. Years ago Fort Hood was so large that passing across the fort did not require a post sticker. Open posts may be a thing of the past in most areas.

Response by SFC Jason Hodge made Feb 15 at 2020 6:00 PM

SFC Jason Hodge — Sat, 15 Feb 2020 18:00:07 -0500

As a MP for 23 years and a civilian cop. They can continue to follow you off post if the offense was committed on post and pull you over. A local cop would then be called to assist. Individual policies determine if the MPs will be told to stop following but as a matter of law, they don't have to stop at the boundaries of posts.

Response by SPC Jack Richard made Jan 27 at 2021 11:49 PM

SPC Jack Richard — Wed, 27 Jan 2021 23:49:29 -0500

The Posse Comitatus Act outlaws the willful use of any part of the Army, or Air Force, to execute civilian law unless expressly authorized by the Constitution, or an act of Congress. That is what I was taught at Legal Administration School! Local authorities are not the Constitution and cannot do an act of Congress! I'm sure the Act has not changed since I ETS'd from the Army in 1978! I know the Soldiers and Sailors Civil Relief Act works! I tried to explain to a State Trooper it's foolish to write me a ticket for expired plates on my car when they can't be renewed because I can't get leave to go home to have my car safety inspected by a Missouri State Inspection Station and he'd spend his off day in court for a ticket that will be dismissed by the judge. When I got to work the next day, I typed a memorandum for the Staff Judge Advocate citing the Act and that I am not able at this time to get leave because of my job. Ticket was dismissed at my court hearing, but I was "influenced" by the Command Sergeant Major to get Louisiana plates on my car before I came back on base! Gee, my MO license plates were only six months expired!

Response by Sgt Dale Briggs made Feb 14 at 2021 6:11 PM

Sgt Dale Briggs — Sun, 14 Feb 2021 18:11:00 -0500

Camp Lejeune MPs walked a beat with Jacksonville police on Court St. so they did have joint cooperation. To what real degree outside of that I don’t know.

Response by Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth made Mar 31 at 2023 10:55 AM

Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth — Fri, 31 Mar 2023 10:55:54 -0400

ABSOLUTELY NOT...Posse Comitatus. Our security forces have a 100 foot strip of road that connects to the highway outside the gate. That 100 foot strip is owned and maintained by the Air Force. They are able to pull folks over up to that point for traffic violations...past that point they have to stop. Now, if they are at the gate and they see an accident with injuries they can respond and triage and direct traffic until local authorities get there and then they have to pull away. They can do that under authority of mitigate loss of life and or property. If there is an assault out there and they see it and someone’s life is in danger they can detain only until local authorities get there then they back off...they cannot enforce civilian laws outside "legal boundaries of the installation." If we have a plane crash off the installation, we can send folks out to "secure' the perimeter of the scene but all they can do is say stop don't go in there and if the person chooses to they can and we can't stop them...local LEO's can. The roads in question you are talking about may be a federal road that is in partnership with the base for maintenance and is part of the base although not in the gate...that may be where you are referencing. Hope this helps. If they get you on one of these roads you can probably challenge it on base or civilian court for Posse Comitatus but just be sure you know the boundaries when you do.
https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/posse-comitatus-revisited-use-military-civil-law-enforcement

Posse Comitatus Revisited: The Use of the Military in Civil Law Enforcement | Office of Justice...

Response by SPC Steven Andreoli made Nov 20 at 2023 3:49 PM

SPC Steven Andreoli — Mon, 20 Nov 2023 15:49:04 -0500

Military police have authority and jurisdiction on base, to uphold military law. Civilians fall short of being tried in military court. Arrests are not made the same way as civilian law enforcement. Mp’s detain. If a civilian commits a crime local law enforcement will get called. Mp can go off post if to enforce military law. Let say for example a solder had family domestic then left the scene and going off base to get away. Would you think MP’s just stop pursuing at the gate? Or if soldier goes AWOL. Situations determine actions taken.

Response by 1SG John Millan made Jan 27 at 2024 8:11 PM

1SG John Millan — Sat, 27 Jan 2024 20:11:41 -0500

Legally, oer the UCMJ, yes. IF you are military. IF you are known to be military; in uniform or personal knowledge of MP. Many installation law enforcement agencies, PMO, DODPD, etc., restrict off post enforcement actions without civilian LE with primary jurisdiction present.

Response by SSG Bill McCoy made Jan 28 at 2024 2:32 PM

SSG Bill McCoy — Sun, 28 Jan 2024 14:32:40 -0500

That depends on multiple factors. First and foremost, the "public highway," must travel THROUGH a military installation. U.S. Highway 1 and three State highways go through Ft. Belvoir for example, and yes, when I was there, MP's had PRIMARY/uncontested jurisdiction on those sections.
Second, is local COMMAND. Since Belvoir is now patrolled by DOD Police and not MP's, the last I was told (by the DOD Police during a reunion at Belvoir), they are not permitted to patrol those roads anymore; but they do have pursuit authority to some degree.
Military Police can NOT pull anyone over in any exclusive civilian road or highway. They may be permitted to follow and radio civilian police, but that'd be it. They most likely however, can pull over to render aid at an accident or crime scene; again depending on Command policy & guidelines. On two of the highways through Belvoir, there were 7-11's where we'd go for coffee 24/7. The policy there was NO police authority; but in one instance, MP's walked in on an armed (knifepoint) robbery. They apprehended the subject (at gunpoint), BUT it was done as a "Citizen's Arrest" ONLY - legal in Virginia and spelled out in Command policy, at least at that time.
Finally, the issue of Posse Commitatus supersedes all with the only exceptions as previously noted.

Response by SMSgt Keith Klug made Jan 29 at 2024 10:51 AM

SMSgt Keith Klug — Mon, 29 Jan 2024 10:51:53 -0500

As a retired Security Police/Forces Member (Law Enforcement before the merger) Military bases have three types of Jurisdiction on and around them. Exclusive, Concurrent and Proprietary (This one I have only seen at one base, Newark AFB, OH which is no longer around). Bases will have some concurrent jurisdiction around their installation. Take Wright-Patterson for example, almost every road around the base is concurrent. With the exception of streets in the Fairborn City Limits and a few other locations. It is normally on the side adjacent to the base. Check with your legal office, they will have a description of the exact locations of all off-base concurrent jurisdiction areas.

Response by SGT Steven Bolander made Mar 18 at 2024 12:09 PM

SGT Steven Bolander — Mon, 18 Mar 2024 12:09:15 -0400

There are a number of instances in which both military and civilian law enforcement agencies cross paths with their respective jurisdictions.

As an example, a civilian law enforcement agency typically has authority for "hot pursuit," where they can continue their pursuit of a vehicle onto a military base. Upon the successful conclusion of the pursuit, the civilian officers do have the authority to take the driver into custody while on-base. And, MP's typically have the authority to continue their pursuit of a vehicle from on-base to off-base.

Another example are the Army CID, the Air Force OSI and the Navy NCIS, which now have a high number of civilian-employee Special Agents who enforce military laws. Several years ago, such civilian Army CID Agents were attempting to make a (Ft. Leonard Wood) off-post arrest of a military member who tried to take a civilian as hostage during the arrest. The agents were able to take the suspect into custody, who was subsequently arrested for both the civilian charge of hostage-taking as well as the military charge of theft of firearms.

So yes, there are a variety of situations where military and civilian law enforcement agencies can have cross-jurisdiction in both on and off-post circumstances.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 18 at 2024 12:10 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 18 Mar 2024 12:10:28 -0400

in most cases, MP's do not have reciprocity off base, and even if they have some sort of agreement it could have a lot of caveats that limits those abilities. Just to be driving around off base and just pulling people over for speeding etc, would most likely not happen.
If MP's pull you over off base, its normally because they are doing an investigation and have a coalition effort with the local Police.
At least that was the way it was in the past.