Can a Specialist make a Private stand at Parade Rest for him?

2018-02-20T19:24:33-05:00

Does general military authority allow a Specialist to require a Private to stand at parade rest for them? There was a previous thread discussing whether a Private should automatically stand at parade rest for a Specialist, but I've seen Specialists over the years tell Privates to stand at parade rest when talking to them. Can Specialists do this? It seems like an abuse of general military authority to me.

Response by SN Greg Wright made Feb 20 at 2018 7:26 PM

2018-02-20T19:26:16-05:00

On paper, sure. Is it a good idea? Probably not.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 20 at 2018 7:27 PM

2018-02-20T19:27:00-05:00

Some units do enforce privates to stand at parade rest for specialists.

Response by SPC Shea Parmenter made Feb 20 at 2018 7:35 PM

2018-02-20T19:35:16-05:00

When I was a private I was required to stand at parade rest for anyone who outranked me. This was also when we would take our differences to the woodline rather than the counseling packet.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 20 at 2018 8:06 PM

2018-02-20T20:06:45-05:00

Technically you’re supposed to stand at parade rest for anyone who outranks you, by one rank or five but it’s not really enforced these days

Response by SFC Melker Johansson made Feb 20 at 2018 8:37 PM

2018-02-20T20:37:25-05:00

I would love to see the regulation or policy that requires a Private to stand at parade rest to a Specialist. I'm not aware of one. Maybe there's some unit policy somewhere, but as far as I know there isn't anything in any Army Regulation that requires that. I don't think I ever seen that happen since basic training when the recruits in my platoon was treating the Unit Supply Specialist to that honor.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Feb 20 at 2018 8:37 PM

2018-02-20T20:37:42-05:00

You have no military authority below CPl. SGt. unless given so by th unit commander. You have to be acting in the capacity as a supervisor. Often units give that authority by virtue of the commander I general terms. In either case do not assume, verify with the 1SG. Thank you for your service.

Response by CW3 Jeff Held made Feb 20 at 2018 8:48 PM

2018-02-20T20:48:36-05:00

If this SPC is singling out one PVT for this then there is clearly an issue.

Keep your head on straight and know the difference between bad, good, better, and great Leadership.

Response by SGT Matthew Sesar made Feb 20 at 2018 8:57 PM

2018-02-20T20:57:40-05:00

They always based it upon if the spc is a team leader in my units.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 20 at 2018 9:05 PM

2018-02-20T21:05:48-05:00

I would check out TC 3-21.5 specifically the Rest Positions at the Halt. Parade Rest Note:
“Enlisted Soldiers assume this position when addressing all noncommissioned officers or when noncommissioned officers address noncommissioned officers of superior rank.” Seems pretty clear to me. SPC is NOT an NCO and is therefore not due this courtesy.

Response by Cpl Justin Goolsby made Feb 20 at 2018 9:34 PM

2018-02-20T21:34:12-05:00

Why would following basic customs and courtesies be an abuse of military authority??? It's a Chain of Command for a reason. Everyone has Superiors and Subordinates.

It's one thing if we were just talking informally between each other. But you better believe if I was speaking in any form of an official capacity to my Marines, they will be at Parade Rest. This gives the impression that whatever it is I am about to pass is important and they had better remember it.

Enforcing good order and discipline is not an abuse of general military authority. It's the cornerstone of our fighting force.

Response by SGT Christopher Hayden made Feb 20 at 2018 11:06 PM

2018-02-20T23:06:26-05:00

The E4 Mafia used to haze the new Privates in the barracks by having them do shit like this until the Privates caught on that the Specialists had no real authority over them in terms of within the unit.

Response by MSG Michael Caldwell made Feb 21 at 2018 12:54 AM

2018-02-21T00:54:10-05:00

A private should always show respect for those that out rank, so SSG Therrien with what you are saying then a CPL can not hold a private at the position of Parade Rest they are both E4s in or our of a leaders position. Both E4s apply for the same next position so are you saying that you would give the SPC less a leadership position just because he shield and not double decker mosque wings. In my book both deserve the same respect.

Response by SP5 Donald Wood made Feb 21 at 2018 2:55 AM

2018-02-21T02:55:14-05:00

Parade rest may not be reg or military tradition but there are times when it is required for the mission. A private is doing something that is incorrect or dangerous, parade rest is required to stop him doing that and receive undivided attention to instruction. A private is paying more attention to his buddies than his job. A private is acting as he has no situational awareness. Many more examples can be listed. If I am lower rank I will pay attention to someone of higher rank because he can judge and report my fitness and obviously because I respect his experience and position. Follow the orders of those appointed above you.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 21 at 2018 5:28 AM

2018-02-21T05:28:37-05:00

No but yes? During my time as a Cadre, students were required to stand at parade rest and address me by rank. Given the position I was in and the soldiers I was training, it was deemed appropriate. Outside of that circumstance, I would 100% agree with SSG Therrien.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 21 at 2018 8:32 AM

2018-02-21T08:32:53-05:00

I'm also going to agree with SSG Therrien. By regulation, itis for NCOs. In the units I've been in, Signal Battalion we did not have privates stand at parade rest for SPCs, the MI unit we did not have privates stand at parade rest, and in my infantry unit, they went to parade rest for CPLs, not SPCs. I have seen, and I think it was out of habit, many of the 11Xs still went to parade rest for SPCs. So yeah, I've seen it done by the unit. It is also done if the SPC is in charge (head of a formation, etc) or appointed by someone with the proper authority so they are representing that person in which case parade rest would not be out of line. Require though, would be based on the unit and if their command has said such.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 21 at 2018 9:46 AM

2018-02-21T09:46:08-05:00

If they're a team leader then depending in your organization, yes. There's rank and then there's position. But army regulation says parade rest is for ncos.

Response by SPC David Willis made Feb 21 at 2018 10:11 AM

2018-02-21T10:11:09-05:00

Typically no. Although when I was brand new to my unit I was told to stand at parade rest for anyone who outranked me so even PFCs. If the SPC is a team leader you should certainly be standing at parade rest, although I never liked my guys talking to me like that. The exception being if I was hemming them up.

Response by CSM Richard StCyr made Feb 21 at 2018 10:50 AM

2018-02-21T10:50:12-05:00

In the way back machine, we stood at parade rest for anyone SPC and above who outranked us in the enlisted structure and attention for all officers until told otherwise. (Unit garrison SOP)
By doctrinal standard FM 3-21.5 / FM 22-5 Pg 4-2 para 4-2(a) You stand at parade rest for any NCO who out ranks you. Meaning CPL or senior.
If the SPC is acting as a team leader in my mind that rates same as Corporal. If the Commander has made this a unit policy then that's a lawful order promoting good order and discipline and I'd be standing at parade rest.

Personally I can think of better things to get dragged before the PSG or 1SG over, than not standing at parade rest for a SPC, or hitting TOP up on open door.

But that's just me because as I said we were required to do it as matter of unit SOP as the mind set was that we would loose SQD LDRs and Team Leaders pretty quickly and the SPCs would be bumped up into team leader slots.

Response by SFC Stephen Atchley made Feb 21 at 2018 12:18 PM

2018-02-21T12:18:18-05:00

Sounds like a Specialist on a power trip.

Response by SGT Eric Davis made Feb 21 at 2018 2:21 PM

2018-02-21T14:21:12-05:00

I wish a special private would of tried to make me stand in parade rest when I was E4 and below; the only E4 I would have stood in parade rest for would have been at CPL any one else got a LOL.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Feb 21 at 2018 2:35 PM

2018-02-21T14:35:22-05:00

Technically if someone out ranks you they are suppose to display the proper military courtesy and stand at parade rest when speaking. Hell, I have had many SPC as team leaders, filling in for junior NCO's when we were short. It was great training for the SPC's- and I would barbecue any flippin PFC/PVT that treated my SPC's as one of the "guys"- especially if my SPC was in a leadership position.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 22 at 2018 8:53 AM

2018-02-22T08:53:02-05:00

Back in the day, I had to as we were scared shitless of the E-4s but in todays army......good luck lol

Response by SSG Jose M. Hernandezsanchez made Feb 22 at 2018 9:07 AM

2018-02-22T09:07:37-05:00

SPC Elijah J. H.
To be honest with you, I didn't really care much for that even though we're require to render proper respect and courtesies for higher ranking personnel. With that said, I would have to agree with you, for a Specialist to do is a little overboard, especially if they're not promotable. As for me, an acknowledgement of the rank/position it would be sufficient.

Response by SFC Robert Walton made Feb 22 at 2018 11:20 AM

2018-02-22T11:20:16-05:00

This is a modified position of Attention if you will. I only used this in Training schools, Other than that if I had a Soldier at Parade Rest you can bet the conversation is going to be one sided and you can bet the only thing I want to hear at that point is yes or no answers beginning with my rank and during formations other wise why would you want to do this? Imagine if the Soldier has a hot cup of coffee and everyone around him/her is of higher rank the coffee will either get spilled and create a safety hazard or will end up in the Trash Because the Soldier never got to drink it. Now if I am in the barracks and the 1SGT. Or Higher rank enters the barracks every body junior in Grade to the 1SGT. better be at Parade Rest. If and E-4 Choose to enforce that for themselves Shows me a lack of Leadership ability for that E-4 or they have a swelled head about their Authority.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 22 at 2018 12:09 PM

2018-02-22T12:09:43-05:00

The company I’m apart of tries to implement the whole parade rest thing when talking to an E4 but most of us just find it annoying and that died out within a few hours. If you’re working and trying to get things done I find it unpractical. Unless that E4 is in a leadership position like a team lead and has to discipline a soldier then it doesn’t really happen here even if the higher ups want it to.

Response by SPC Phillip Gonzales made Feb 23 at 2018 10:31 AM

2018-02-23T10:31:05-05:00

I know what I was SP4 I ordered a private to retrieve a body which where are my paratroopers was dead in the trees we are cut the tree down to get the body when I told the guy from Graves and registration to get his body he refused he said with my parachute I had to get the parachute and the and the paratrooper explained to him I out rank them and get the fucking body and my parachutes so yes I specialist does a rake a private

Response by Eric Lund made Feb 23 at 2018 11:11 AM

2018-02-23T11:11:55-05:00

I get the point that there are micro-managers and those on a power trip and there are times and places for parade function attention rest etc. When an officer walks into a room anyone not currently engaged in an essential task should snap to attention. When receiving instruction you should stand at parade rest unless the superior rank authorizes another posture. This is called disciplined conditioning to authority. This conditioning should be a part of your daily life even after you leave the service. if you automatically fall into parade rest when standing or snap to when you spot butter bars no one would complain. We Americans by nature resist this conditioning. to quote an anecdote from the American Revolution, "You tell a Prussian soldier to jump a fence, he jumps the fence. You tell an American soldier to jump a fence he will look you square in the eyes an asks you why." This is about conditioning. the ability to follow orders and submit to authority automatically is not part of the American culture, as a result, it must be taught and reinforced to have quick responses to directions in a combat situation. like training our bodies to develop muscle memory we must train our minds as well. It should never piss you off to stand at attention or parade rest even for extended periods like formation while waiting for the Captain to finish his coffee and join you on the field. What should piss you off is that captains lack of discipline and responsibility to those under his/her command.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 23 at 2018 12:51 PM

2018-02-23T12:51:51-05:00

Specialist really don't have that type of authority over a private in this situation, however, a private does have that option to do so out of respect for that specialist. Most often privates stand at parade rest anyways.

Response by PO3 Scot Fahey made Feb 23 at 2018 6:53 PM

2018-02-23T18:53:08-05:00

More an more Joint Service Operation means Senior person in the area might be a Specialist, or heaven forbid, a Petty Officer Third Class like me, (an E-4 by any other name) Chain of Command is a requirement of service, and the Senior Person Present, even when they are an ass, they are still senior service member present

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 23 at 2018 9:59 PM

2018-02-23T21:59:01-05:00

I would light that SPC up if I saw that happen.

Response by SFC David Fullmer made Feb 24 at 2018 1:50 AM

2018-02-24T01:50:56-05:00

If specialists want special treatment, get promoted.

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Feb 24 at 2018 1:35 PM

2018-02-24T13:35:18-05:00

Yes, provided that the Section Sgt, senior NCO, or officer gave you the authority to put you in charge, even if temporary. That authority gives you the authority to conduct the sections business, or detail. Also if the individual has committed an offense and you saw it, I would say general military authority to enforce standards would apply.

Response by SPC Kevin Rhodes made Feb 24 at 2018 10:53 PM

2018-02-24T22:53:29-05:00

Yes they can

Response by SFC Robert Lee Rice made Feb 25 at 2018 8:02 PM

2018-02-25T20:02:27-05:00

That private will probably tell you to stuff it in your A--.

Response by CPL Luis Whetstine made Feb 26 at 2018 12:28 AM

2018-02-26T00:28:15-05:00

Let me answer your question as it’s asked. Even those yes a specialist outranks a private, there is no need for the private to stand at parade rest...even more so cause the specialist is not an NCO.

Response by 2LT Ronald Reimer made Feb 27 at 2018 8:51 AM

2018-02-27T08:51:25-05:00

Probably not, but do it anyway, and sound off with, “YES, Command Specialst Major!” everytime they “require” it.

Response by SPC Rj Wasser made Feb 27 at 2018 11:13 AM

2018-02-27T11:13:18-05:00

Depends on the chain of command I suppose. If I remember correctly, the COC can add to a regulation, but not take away from it. In that regard I suppose a particularly douchey commander could require it, but only a complete asshat of a specialist would require it.

Response by SPC Scott Smith made Feb 27 at 2018 12:20 PM

2018-02-27T12:20:28-05:00

Not sure if thumbs up means yes they can or if people are agreeing with you that its abuse. I'd say that depends on whether youre the spec 4 or the private. Parade rest is a position of respect for authority and a spec4 is just a corporal without 24/7 leadership responsibility but doesnt mema theu cant lead a detail of subs. Ive seen this done right in front of E5s and E6s and they fully suported the E4 who has much more time in service than the private.

Response by SPC Scott Smith made Feb 27 at 2018 12:22 PM

2018-02-27T12:22:55-05:00

Sounds like somebody's "butt hurt".

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 27 at 2018 6:47 PM

2018-02-27T18:47:10-05:00

General military authority, no. But I have seen units make it mandatory, i.e. my last active duty unit, where my 1SG put that policy in place for a while as a response to soldiers losing their sense of discipline and courtesy. I never *liked* it, but I did enforce it as a SPC in a supervisory capacity over our problem child. I would only correct other soldiers if there were higher-ups around, because they had earned my respect and were pretty squared away.

Even as an NCO now, having soldiers stand at parade rest feels kind of weird. Lol

Response by SPC Chris Stafford made Mar 1 at 2018 10:50 AM

2018-03-01T10:50:37-05:00

Yes

Response by SPC Erich Guenther made Mar 1 at 2018 9:35 PM

2018-03-01T21:35:39-05:00

Well to tell you the truth I saw that only happen at the 2nd Armored Division (FWD) when I was assigned to them. It was high stupidity because Specialist Rank has no real command authority and a Specialist would need a NCO to take any disciplinary action. Also, the Specailists that did that in that Infantry unit were losers, no way would the Army retain them long-term. 101st Airborne was far more interested in training than political BS, so I never saw it there and to tell you the truth the NCO's at the 101st would not tolerate it there, nor did I ever see it in my NG unit.

Response by SGT Chester Beedle made Mar 2 at 2018 1:05 AM

2018-03-02T01:05:54-05:00

I've only seen this unit specific. When I was Regular Army we didn't until we had one platoon sergeant to made it platoon policy. This was in the mid 90s, around 1994.
I hadn't heard of it happening much elsewhere until I met a few Rangers who said that they had to do it, and even a SPC who wasn't tabbed had to stand at parade rest for any SPC who was tabbed. That would have been 3/75 in the late 90s.

Depending on the circumstances this could help with instilling discipline and respect for those who are senior. Especially for those SPCs who are Fire Team Leaders, or AVLB commanders, or other NCO positions. It could also be incredibly silly if some SPC were to try and be a dick about it.

Response by SPC Richard Hansen made Mar 3 at 2018 4:17 PM

2018-03-03T16:17:20-05:00

The Specialist would be a real POS if he did that. That private, or someone else, should tell that specialist to go F himself! Tells you what kind of jack-off he's going to be as an NCO.

Response by MSgt John McGowan made Mar 5 at 2018 6:31 AM

2018-03-05T06:31:34-05:00

Why? It not like you are you are that high of a rank. You need to lighten up some.

Response by Sgt Wayne Wood made Mar 5 at 2018 11:21 AM

2018-03-05T11:21:41-05:00

Witness the problems created when you have a parallel but not equivalent rank structure... Semper Fi

Response by SPC Joel Alioto made Mar 14 at 2018 10:09 PM

2018-03-14T22:09:17-04:00

I did it when I was a private in 1989, my M.O.S. did not have corporals. You went from a spc.4 to a E-5 mostly after you completed P.L.D.S. I never made my guys do it, if a issue arose that I could not handle I contacted my E-5.

Response by CPL Cory Legall made Mar 25 at 2018 4:53 PM

2018-03-25T16:53:08-04:00

I’ve never stood parade rest for a Specialist as a Private.

Response by SPC James Brand made Mar 27 at 2018 7:52 AM

2018-03-27T07:52:05-04:00

Normally privates would stand at parade rest, if the spc was in a team leader position. Or in my last year, our plt Sgt wanted privates to stand at parade rest for all spc , so depends.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 28 at 2018 3:35 PM

2018-03-28T15:35:04-04:00

I think it also can depend on your MOS when I worked maintenance you don't have time for that kind of thing, or when I was a firefighter. I did notice that the office types MOS's and field units and definitely the MPs seem to have that kind of atmosphere. But like most things in life it's either a test to see how much you will take or a learning experience because you may have messed up or seem to them not to have a strong enough military bearing. Either way you should have that conversation with them and see if there is an issue. You either correct what you need to or do what comes natural. I went in on the tail end of the last of the Vietnam area military the first time in 94 , the 2nd time in 03. The military had changed a lot in that time so I can't imagine how it has changed in the last 6 years. So how you should address it is probably not how we would have handled it.

Response by SGT Scott Brandt made Mar 31 at 2018 2:57 PM

2018-03-31T14:57:18-04:00

I would only think it would be appropriate if the SPC was a member of cadre. In Basic training summer of '86, our company Armorer was a SPC, wore a cadre belt to indicate such. We were expected to take orders from him like all other Cadre.

Response by SGT Lee Jamison made Mar 31 at 2018 4:55 PM

2018-03-31T16:55:00-04:00

No, that is not within regs. You stand at parade rest when addressing or addressed by an NCO, a specialist is not an NCO.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 31 at 2018 5:53 PM

2018-03-31T17:53:47-04:00

I would have to say normally no! But, I did have my squad do it when I was an SPC scout squad leader in the 82nd. All the other squad leaders were SSG so it was just common practice for squad leaders. Before that we were all worker bees.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 5 at 2018 9:43 PM

2018-04-05T21:43:54-04:00

Never have asked anyone to parade rest, that's some senior specialist made up bullshit

Response by SSG Ronald Lowe made Apr 5 at 2018 10:50 PM

2018-04-05T22:50:01-04:00

If he's mean enough.

Response by SSG Leo McArdle made Apr 6 at 2018 12:04 AM

2018-04-06T00:04:09-04:00

I think refs are quite clear about this. A specialist is not an NCO thus the answer is no. When a SP is put in charge of a detail (as it happens often enough) it is still no in my book. The other personnel should follow his/her directions with respect though.

Response by SPC Mike Davis made Apr 6 at 2018 9:09 AM

2018-04-06T09:09:34-04:00

A Specialist is a "full-bird PFC" and should be shown the respect
for such a position (not a rank.) Whatever that is! Think of a Specialist as an
enlisted Warrant. He almost is...but....then again....he almost isn't!

Response by SFC Jerry Robbins made Apr 6 at 2018 10:36 PM

2018-04-06T22:36:27-04:00

Although the regulations will tell you that it is not required or customary to do so. Yes! Ranger Battalion was a special time for me and in 1/75th Rgr. Bn. if a SPC was "tabbed", meaning he has successfully completed Ranger School, than any "untabbed" personnel would stand at parade rest for that SPC. Even a buck sgt or E-5, who was "untabbed" depending on the Platoon Sgt. you had at the time, wanted the Sgt to stand at parade rest for a "tabbed" SPC. Completing Ranger School was a coveted right of passage not only in Ranger Battalions but Army wide.

Response by SPC Justin Adkins made Apr 10 at 2018 5:12 PM

2018-04-10T17:12:38-04:00

They did in my unit when I was in

Response by SGT Aric Lier made Apr 10 at 2018 5:26 PM

2018-04-10T17:26:15-04:00

I was placed as a squad leader and then a plt. sgt position as a spc 4 , let me tell you i didn't have to order anyone to parade rest as the other 2 had my back.and if top caught it they wished like hell they hadn't we eventually got some 5's and 6's in and I was moved to team leader. after PLDC I was laterally promoted by general Taylor

Response by LTC Charles T Dalbec made Apr 14 at 2018 6:14 PM

2018-04-14T18:14:33-04:00

Pay attention to soldiering not BS please

Response by SPC Jose Vidrotiru made Apr 15 at 2018 7:31 AM

2018-04-15T07:31:20-04:00

I was a specialist , never a fan of regulations but I respected them as a good soldiers should , never gave orders out of orderly room

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 15 at 2018 12:49 PM

2018-04-15T12:49:39-04:00

No. I think I would lose my mind if I saw a SPC do that to a PVT in my unit. A SPC is not an NCO and just because a SPC is in a team leader position it does not mean they can do it either.

Response by SPC David Hamm made Apr 16 at 2018 7:23 PM

2018-04-16T19:23:32-04:00

I was in a squad leader position when I was E-4. I believe this is the only time a Private should stand at parade rest for a specialist.

Response by SFC Christopher Taggart made Apr 16 at 2018 7:33 PM

2018-04-16T19:33:07-04:00

Re: "Can a Specialist make a Private stand at Parade Rest for him?" I wouldn't bother. One time, I actually had a newly-promoted Corporal (I was a Specialist), and I knew he was, trying to lock me up. I told him, 'I have more time in the shitter, than you have in the military!' I walked away.

Response by SPC Caleb Aronstein made Apr 17 at 2018 12:44 PM

2018-04-17T12:44:23-04:00

If you are a private and you have a specialist that is holding a team leader position then yes. If he choses. I've never been smoked as bad as I have by a specialist. And never once thought ab bringing up the fact that he wasn't an nco I did what he told me to do and gave him the same respect as an nco because he was in an nco's position. It's a respect thing. He's not a private for a reason

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 18 at 2018 1:24 PM

2018-04-18T13:24:15-04:00

I’m a Mrine Corps Corporal that switched to the Army and became a SPC. I wish I could put people at parade rest but that’s not the SPC’s job. SPC’s are the line in between NCO’s and Junior Soldiers. Now should they since they are the same pay grade as a CPL; in my opinion yes, but they don’t have too. SPC has no power in that sense

Response by SGT Rosi Teresi made Apr 28 at 2018 5:13 AM

2018-04-28T05:13:05-04:00

28 years in the Army and I never saw anyone come to a "stiff puppet" position when speaking to anyone who outranked them except when they were getting their ass chewed

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made May 1 at 2018 11:34 AM

2018-05-01T11:34:52-04:00

My bottom line- if the SPC is in charge of the detail, the Fire Team, in charge of whatever- he is going it under the authority of who ever selected him for that position. that person is an NCO, and if the SPC was one of my Team leaders, then I would makes sure all the lower SM's give him the courtesy of an NCO- We hardly ever, never had any CPL's, so many of our Team Leaders were senior SPC or SPC(P). I allowed 0 disrespect of my Chain.

Response by SPC Derrick Evans made May 1 at 2018 12:05 PM

2018-05-01T12:05:49-04:00

Glad to re up with you man

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made May 1 at 2018 3:26 PM

2018-05-01T15:26:20-04:00

I'm gonna say, generally, no. At least not force (make) the Private do so.

Response by MAJ Fred Peterman made May 3 at 2018 11:01 PM

2018-05-03T23:01:51-04:00

I held every rank from E-1 to O-4. When anybody called attention, I put them at ease as soon as possible. I appreciated the respect, but didn't "get off" by making them stand to attention. I think the soldiers or airmen appreciated this. We were there to do the mission, not impress any one.

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made May 4 at 2018 2:15 PM

2018-05-04T14:15:51-04:00

As I recall, there are two type of Authority: Command and General Authority. Command comes from a Commander, and has more authority over one that is General Authority. As a soldier we have been given certain authorities when we assume certain positions. If an NCO or an Officer sees a Private with his hands in his pocket or walking on the grass, we have that General Authority to tell said Private who may not work for us, to get off the grass, get their hands out of their pockets. I cannot now tell that soldier he has to wash every truck in my motor pool, as he/she is not in my unit or my section. I do not have that authority. The soldiers Commander does have that authority to authorize punishment through the UCMJ. His Commander may also allow SPC Super troop to fill a vacant NCO position. Now that commander has extended authority to that SPC. In this circumstance the Commander and 1SG and the rest of the SPC chain of command have confidence in the soldier to do the right thing. So if he is the acting squad leader, and he calls the section to Attention, are they not obligated to do so? Yes. Likewise for those soldiers in his/her squad, are obligated to show the courtesies to SPC that they would to an NCO who would be filling that role? If the circumstance is something along the lines that the Private did something that was disrespectful or illegal, the SPC is , IMHO, well with in the Authority that has been extended to him/her to fulfill the role of an NCO.

Authority works in mysterious ways, and you need to be familiar with it. Here is a good example: I once worked in a maintenance section that had 5 Section Chief's, 4 of the Section Chief's were E-7's, the Platoon Sergeant was also an E-7, So that makes five E-7's total. I was an E-6, as the Unit's MTOE did not allow for an E-7 to be over that section. We had one of the E-7 Section Chief's who liked to dump his work on others. He tried that with me. I told him to do it himself, he got ticked off tried the whole "I am an E-7!" I informed him you are a Section Chief, and I am a Section Chief, and we both answer to an E-7 Platoon Sergeant. You only have General Military Authority and can't give me that order to do an assignment that was assigned to you. He was furious took it up the chain, and was politely bounced out of the office, as both our WO/ and Platoon Sergeant told him I was right, and then asked him why he was passing off his work. In this circumstance both the E-7 Section Chief and I were equal in authority. We both answered to another E-7 in the same platoon. Rank in that circumstance, was irrelevant as neither of us had authority over the other for that detail. he still had general authority as he was senior to me in grade.

Response by CPL Thomas Artiaga made May 8 at 2018 12:31 AM

2018-05-08T00:31:58-04:00

Yes but only in certain situations. General military Authority dictates that if the specialist is the ranking individual and is in charge of that area or facility yes they can as they are in a leadership position. When a non-commissioned officer delegates the authority to a specialist even for a detail as long as they're in charge of that detail yes they then have the authority of the noncommissioned officer. The Specialist can bring a hundred privates to the position of attention if they are the ranking individual in that area at that time, provided they are tasked by an NCO to take command of that area. It can happen and it will happen there will be a time when a specialist will be the highest ranking person in the area there will be no ncos around and you will have to take command do what you have to do but I understand when the ncos do eventually show up maybe a day later every command you gave will fall squarely on your shoulders they say that an NCO should be one who seeks responsibility and takes responsibility for their own actions so be prepared for that

Response by CPL Cory Herrera made May 9 at 2018 2:11 PM

2018-05-09T14:11:39-04:00

I don't think they can do this as the specialist rank is not a nco rank. However I believe in the old ways of respect for rank and if a person of higher rank gives a command to lower ranking soldiers it should be followed.

Response by SPC Josh Leuck made May 15 at 2018 5:33 PM

2018-05-15T17:33:18-04:00

Depends on your unit. If you are a SPC and a team leader or section leader. You can not require it unless you are a CPL. in my unit, when I was promotable the NCOs in my unit required those of lower rank to stand at paraide rest.

Response by SFC Kenneth G. made May 21 at 2018 6:19 AM

2018-05-21T06:19:29-04:00

E-1 to E-4 are the ranks that are equivalent in protocol. They are automatic promotions at certain times of service. The NCO ranks start at E-5, unless you are a Corporal, and this is where the military protocol of standing at parade rest by the juniors begins. Specialists are not NCO's and do not get the deserved respect of the NCO.

Response by SFC Kenneth G. made May 21 at 2018 6:01 PM

2018-05-21T18:01:28-04:00

In my first unit, we had a soldier who thought he could just boss anyone who didn't out rank him around. He was about 4 months ahead of me in rank and promotions and time in service. When we would go out downtown and he would get the beer in him, it would start. I out rank you and you have to do what I say. The fight would ensue and he would lose every time. Well it came time and he made Sergeant. When he pinned on his stripes, I told him respectfully that if he still came out with us and started with the I out rank you stuff, he was going to get whipped like a Private because that wasn't how an NCO acted. I also told that to the Detachment Sergeant. Well we went out one night and he decided to go with us. Sure as fire, he started his I out rank you stuff. I asked him twice to stop to no avail. The fight was on and he lost that night so severe they had to pull me off of him. He went to the Detachment Sergeant to bring me up on charges and the Det. Sgt. told him "If you are gong to act like a private I can make you a private". So even as an NCO, you still have to give respect to get respect.

Response by SSG Jeremy Sharp made May 21 at 2018 8:47 PM

2018-05-21T20:47:31-04:00

I have a few observations on this point. Why is the Specialist requiring it? Is it in some type of formation, Does the Specialist hold any type of leadership position over the Private? Is it for a valid reason or just an ego stimulator for the Specialist? Is the Specialist even in the Privates organizational structure? Most of these are pertinent. I rarely had my soldiers at parade rest save for duty formations or disciplinary hearings. If your soldiers know who you are and your position, there is little reason to "lock them up" just to have a discussion with them. Hopefully the Specialist you are referring to is not bolstering his ego by jacking random Privates up because eventually a Non-Com is going to repay the favor and it won't be pleasant.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 22 at 2018 11:02 PM

2018-05-22T23:02:48-04:00

I served five years in the Army National Guard in Texas and had this exact situation happen. I was still a PFC and this SPC had me stand at parade rest. When I told him to screw off, an actual CO told me that technically, by regulation, I have to. They are also allowed to "smoke" you for up to 15 minutes. Anything after that, the SPC has to join.

Response by SSG Lon Watson made May 24 at 2018 8:41 PM

2018-05-24T20:41:15-04:00

All I can say is go to the Ranger Battalion as a private and tell a “tabbed E-4” you ain’t standing at parade rest....then watch what happens!

Response by SGM Jeffrey Hall made May 24 at 2018 8:46 PM

2018-05-24T20:46:54-04:00

The position of parade rest is generally used when speaking to a noncommissioned officer, or if an NCO yourself, a more senior NCO. Since a specialist is not an NCO, the quick answer is no. However, if that specialist is serving as a team leader, it would be proper to assume that position if he or she is senior to you and is in your chain of command.

Response by LTC Jeff Shearer made May 24 at 2018 9:22 PM

2018-05-24T21:22:51-04:00

Elijah, I guess that is good to know a specialist does out rank a private but is not an NCO. Now a Corporal would be different same pay grade but one is an NCO. Just being honest coming from an SF background if someone was given Parade Rest or Attention things were pretty serious. It did happen but not all the time

Response by SSG Lon Watson made May 25 at 2018 9:00 AM

2018-05-25T09:00:23-04:00

Again I hear you all and agree, a specialist isn’t an NCO. However there are units (airborne, infantry, and ranger units) where an E-4 Specialist, not corpora, is a team leader and is afforded the courtesy of an NCO. I realize this isn’t “regulation” but it’s a part on unit culture in these units. But, specialists in these leadership positions are often very mature, have a lot of responsibility and don’t abuse authority. Also most of them are just months from pinning on sergeant.

Response by COL Mikel J. Burroughs made May 25 at 2018 12:17 PM

2018-05-25T12:17:26-04:00

SPC Elijah J. Henry, MBA When I was private and I was approached by a Specialist military bearing kicked in and I automatically went to Parade Rest and I continued that practice during my entire (9) years of enlisted service when reporting or answering to all those who were above me in rank (as a common courtesy) and even as a commissioned Officer up to including the rank of Full Bird Colonel. Maybe I was brain washed at the early age of 17, but I respected the Army, the Institution, and my immdediate leaders, and the country we served. It was about a higher calling for me. Don't care if there is a regulation or not. It was about soldiering and setting the example for others to emulate. That's my two cents, now I can stand at ease.

CHAPTER 5: MILITARY CUSTOMS & COURTESIES

PARADE REST
Like “Attention”, Parade Rest is a form of respect given to NCOs by those junior in rank. When a Senior NCO enters an area of junior enlisted soldiers or cadets, the room is called to “at ease”. All personnel should immediately go to the position of “stand at-ease” until told to “carry-on”. Likewise, when speaking to an NCO, soldiers junior in rank or cadets, will maintain the position of “parade rest” until instructed to “stand at ease”, “at ease”, or “rest”/relax.

Customs, Courtesies, and Traditions

The Army is an organization that instills pride in its members because of its history, mission, capabilities, and the respect it has earned in the service of the Nation. A reflection of that pride is visible in the customs, courtesies, and traditions the Army holds. Adherence to them connects us with soldiers throughout America's history.

OTHER COURTESIES

4-16. Military courtesy shows respect and reflects self-discipline. Consistent and proper military courtesy is an indicator of unit discipline, as well. Soldiers demonstrate courtesy in the way we address officers or NCOs of superior rank. Some other simple but visible signs of respect and self-discipline are as follows:

When talking to an officer of superior rank, stand at attention until ordered otherwise.
When you are dismissed, or when the officer departs, come to attention and salute.
When speaking to or being addressed a noncommissioned officer of superior rank, stand at parade rest until ordered otherwise.
When an officer of superior rank enters a room, the first soldier to recognize the officer calls personnel in the room to attention but does not salute. A salute indoors is rendered only when reporting.
When an NCO of superior rank enters the room, the first soldier to recognize the NCO calls the room to "At ease."
Walk on the left of an officer or NCO of superior rank.
When entering or exiting a vehicle, the junior ranking soldier is the first to enter, and the senior in rank is the first to exit.
When outdoors and approached by an NCO, you greet the NCO by saying, "Good morning, Sergeant," for example.
The first person who sees an officer enter a dining facility gives the order "At ease," unless a more senior officer is already present. Many units extend this courtesy to senior NCOs, also.
When you hear the command "At ease" in a dining facility, remain seated, silent and continue eating unless directed otherwise.

Your Next Top Influencers: 1SG Private RallyPoint Member LTC Private RallyPoint Member SFC Private RallyPoint Member

Response by LTC Eugene Chu made May 25 at 2018 5:33 PM

2018-05-25T17:33:39-04:00

During my enlisted time, this exact situation happened to me. As the comments described below, I did stand at parade rest, but I complained to my NCO afterwards. She informed me that while the other person outranked me, it was an inappropriate act.

Response by MSG Danny Mathers made May 25 at 2018 6:49 PM

2018-05-25T18:49:57-04:00

Depends on the situation. I'd say yes if the specialist was in a leadeship position such as team leader. Other stituation would be in formation for guard. My opinion is it really depends on tha unit's SOP policy. Frankly, I have no problem with a Specialist telling a Private to get at parade rest. Keep in mind, I am Old School and believe in disclipline.

Response by SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth made May 26 at 2018 10:10 AM

2018-05-26T10:10:47-04:00

It's a sign of respect if the private does it automatically.

Response by SSG Warren Swan made May 26 at 2018 10:25 AM

2018-05-26T10:25:36-04:00

Slippery slope. If I was a squad leader and both of my team leaders had to deal with members of their team like this, I wouldn't mind they had to snatch them to parade rest. If it got to that point afterwards I've have my team leader in question explain to me the reasoning behind it, and see if there was any merit to the action. Power tripping is real, and should be stopped LONG before it gets out of hand.

A lot of team leaders come from the very teams they were in, so those who they used to run with cannot understand why their "friend" is now giving them what they see as BS taskings or details. That Team Leader should be able to use all tools to get the mission done, or his friends won't be able to save him from the ass chewing coming his way from me after I get mine from the PSG or 1SG. I've been locked up by a SPC as a PFC, and the SQD LDR said the team leader is an extension of him. You WILL do for him as you WILL do for me. So while not being a NCO, that team leader carried the rank of the SQD LDR (not literally carry. it's the respect of the rank and position), and was to be respected as such.

Regulations make a lot of grey areas, that leave it to the Joes to interpret and make happen. You also have your formal and informal norms in the military that while they seem stupid as hell, aren't written anywhere, you STILL understand they are things that need to be maintained.

Response by SPC Margaret Higgins made May 26 at 2018 10:32 AM

2018-05-26T10:32:38-04:00

When I was a Squad Leader: I never insisted that a Private stand at Parade Rest. I don't know if I could have; or not. SPC Elijah J. Henry, MBA

Response by Sgt Wayne Wood made May 26 at 2018 11:30 AM

2018-05-26T11:30:58-04:00

Things have changed... back in the early ‘70’s parade rest was used when in formation or otherwise ‘on parade’...

Snapping to parade rest just because an NCO strolled in was laughable.

But then, there was a draft... not an all volunteer force.

Response by LTC Stephen F. made May 26 at 2018 10:51 PM

2018-05-26T22:51:01-04:00

Interesting question, my friend SPC Elijah J. Henry, MBA
In my humble opinion only NCOs [and commissioned officer] can direct a soldier of lower rank "to stand at parade rest for them."
The only exception IMHO would be in a training situation in BCT or AIT where a SPC was striped based on duty position and not rank.
In my enlisted experience [1974-1976], only NCOs could direct me to parade rest, attention, or any other position, I was a combat engineer and later a cadet candidate as a PFC. I received a lot of instruction on customs and courtesies. :-)
Thanks for mentioning me COL Mikel J. Burroughs
What do you think? LTC Bill Koski CW5 Private RallyPoint Member MSG Brad Sand SGM Steve Wettstein SSG James J. Palmer IV aka "JP4" SP5 Mark Kuzinski SrA Christopher Wright PO1 William "Chip" Nagel PO1 John Miller SP5 Robert Ruck SPC Private RallyPoint Member PO3 Steven Sherrill SN Greg Wright Maj Marty Hogan SCPO Morris Ramsey TSgt Joe C. Cpl Joshua Caldwell SGT Michael Thorin

Response by SCPO Morris Ramsey made May 27 at 2018 6:44 AM

2018-05-27T06:44:51-04:00

Might depend on the size of the SPC

Response by SPC Kevin Murphey made May 27 at 2018 2:03 PM

2018-05-27T14:03:10-04:00

It depends on a couple of things. Yes, that’s what the regulation says but if the SPC is holding a position of command (say the PSGT designated them in command of the platoon, or 1SG, etc) then they are afforded the same respect as if the PSG was standing there. Or if they are assigned to a position that is normally held by a higher ranking enlisted. It also depends on what the command staff of the unit designated. In my last unit, if a SPC told a PV1 to do something, they were to do it and show proper respect; this was 15 years ago though.

Response by CPT George Langley made May 27 at 2018 2:21 PM

2018-05-27T14:21:00-04:00

What we have here is a lack of clarity in the question. If we read it as any Specialist and any Private, then the answer is no. If we consider the specific circumstance where the Specialist is (either temporarily or permanently) in a chain of command position re the Private, then the parade rest position might be appropriate.

Response by SP6 Peter Kreutzfeldt made May 29 at 2018 3:43 PM

2018-05-29T15:43:46-04:00

if he is a Spc 4 tell him to get a job. If he is a Spc 6 and above better listen

Response by SGT Phil Marnette made May 29 at 2018 11:53 PM

2018-05-29T23:53:48-04:00

When I was a spec 4 profitable, i had my own squad of 13 people. There were times when I had to put privates and even non-promotable spec 4s at parade rest. It was rare but sometimes had to be done. At that time in our unit, a spec 4 promotable was considered an NCO by the rest of the chain of command

Response by SSG Robert Perrotto made May 30 at 2018 9:49 AM

2018-05-30T09:49:38-04:00

IMHO - no - not for a SPC, unless that SPC was holding and appointed to a NCO position - then it is the position that you are respecting. For me, just give me the curtesy of going to parade rest when you approach me, unless it is for corrective purposes, I always said "relax" - no reason to keep someone at that position for longer then curtesy demands.

Response by SSG Russell Watson made Jun 3 at 2018 8:55 PM

2018-06-03T20:55:18-04:00

The only time I have seen Privates stand at parade rest for a Specialist was in basic training who was the company armorer.

Response by SPC Franklin McKown made Jun 11 at 2018 11:02 AM

2018-06-11T11:02:22-04:00

I never did it,I used brute intimidation tactics if politeness failed.
For a guy to try that he must be full of himself.I am aware of no reg.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 12 at 2018 7:24 AM

2018-06-12T07:24:40-04:00

I agree with everyone that only those E5 and above an make a lower enlisted be at parade rest; however, I also agree that it is showing the higher rank respect. I see only two reasons that a E3 and below would stand at parade rest for an E4. One, the E4 is in a position of authority, team cheif, squad leader, over that lower. Though the E4 can not make the lower enlisted be at parade rest, it is a showing of respect of the position the E4 is in. The second reason is strictly that the lower WANTS to show the higher rank respect regardless and stands at parade rest anyway.

Response by SGT Mark Halmrast made Jun 18 at 2018 7:03 AM

2018-06-18T07:03:58-04:00

When I was an E-1 cherry in the 82nd, and a SP4 said to address him at parade rest, I assumed parade rest. Didn't spend much mental energy wondering if the guys were supposed to be able to do that.

Response by PV2 Steven Stockwell made Jun 28 at 2018 2:27 AM

2018-06-28T02:27:59-04:00

When I Was In Were Told To Extend The Curtisy To To Specialist 5TH Class Or Higher But I Think The Modern Army Only Has Specialist 4TH Class In Fact I Think I Read Some That The Army Was Thinking Of Doing Away With Specialist Ranks All Togeather

Response by PO1 Daniel Romo made Jul 4 at 2018 5:27 PM

2018-07-04T17:27:26-04:00

Unless rank has changed over the years when I was in the service I went to military jail after a courts martial when I report to Quantico I was put in with the NCO’s because the way the structure went was E-4 is the lowest NCO like CMST of the Army he’s an E-9 not an E-10 I would guess yes a SP4 can place a Pvt at parse rest especially if the individual is in a leadership positon

Response by SPC Gary Welch made Jul 5 at 2018 12:42 PM

2018-07-05T12:42:11-04:00

Everybody's comments are correct unless the SPC is in a leadership position over that private I was a dismount squad leader as a SPC and when I was doing concealing statements or rebuking one of my squad members our 1sgt required that they stand at parade rest other then that no on the parade rest

Response by CPL Ken Peterson made Jul 7 at 2018 1:32 AM

2018-07-07T01:32:56-04:00

Yes. A Specialist can put a E1, E2, and E3 at Parade Rest if assigned a E5 role as per the 1stSG or Conpany Commander. Of course that is the most serious circumstance. I held the authority as a Specialist and never ever had to put a Soldier at Parade Rest. I would never think of such. So many other ways to handle the situation. After the fact, We’d (them AND myself) do push ups- (smoke session) till I got tired. I can do some pushups!

Response by Sgt Charles Welling made Jul 10 at 2018 9:28 AM

2018-07-10T09:28:10-04:00

If a specialist does not have authority, why are there levels of specialists? Glad I was in the Marines, seemed pretty cut and dry, we knew it and we did it and there was far less BS than Army posts reveal.

Response by 1SG Ken Bedwell made Jul 26 at 2018 7:20 PM

2018-07-26T19:20:57-04:00

No.

Response by CW4 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 27 at 2018 8:12 AM

2018-07-27T08:12:47-04:00

Even when serving in an E-5 position. What is the rank/grade of the individual? Training Circular 3-21.5 seems pretty clear to me.

Response by SPC Blaine Larned-Brown made Aug 4 at 2018 10:44 PM

2018-08-04T22:44:27-04:00

As I see it if the higher rank is in charge of the group then he or she is do the respect there for you would stand at a parade rest

Response by SPC Henry Francis made Aug 6 at 2018 9:14 AM

2018-08-06T09:14:55-04:00

An acting corporal (E-2) in basic can, but the conditions are that he has been specifically charged with drilling the squad he has been appointed to lead. In general? I don’t think so; however, read the circumstances, behave well in you own interests. Bring it to the attention of your Squad Leader afterward if you believe he acted inappropriately. Don’t get so hung up on the regs that you fight everything... it will not end well for you.

Response by SPC Henry Francis made Aug 6 at 2018 9:42 AM

2018-08-06T09:42:04-04:00

Oops, everyone was an E-1 in basic... even the acting corporals (trainees as well)

Response by PO3 George McCullough made Aug 6 at 2018 7:56 PM

2018-08-06T19:56:30-04:00

He can, but he just might get a treatment from the private that he didn't expect!

Response by PO3 George McCullough made Aug 6 at 2018 7:57 PM

2018-08-06T19:57:10-04:00

I would not recommend this. The private just might take an action that the specialist would not like!

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 7 at 2018 1:20 AM

2018-08-07T01:20:42-04:00

I can't speak specifically about Army but "and I do charge all personnel of lesser grade to render obedience to appropriate orders"

Response by SPC Fred Scholl made Aug 9 at 2018 7:21 PM

2018-08-09T19:21:00-04:00

The E-4 outranks the E-2. ‘Nuff said.

Response by SSG Michael Davis made Aug 9 at 2018 9:51 PM

2018-08-09T21:51:30-04:00

No, it's that simple and others have provided guidance from official pubs. The only exception might be in training environments where soldiers are frocked into leadership positions within the training formation that make their actual (pay) ranks meaningless within the training environment context.

PV1 = Junior Enlisted. SPC = Junior Enlisted.

I'm surprised this topic comes up, that and whether civilians have military authority over green suiters. Hint = only as much authority as a normal supervisor in a workplace has (a/k/a the civilians cannot make you do pushups). But they can report you to a NCO who might be able to...

Response by SPC Clayton Ellzey made Aug 14 at 2018 11:03 AM

2018-08-14T11:03:41-04:00

I was a squad leader as a E4 and my plt sgt said if you have to lock one up lock him up.

Response by PO1 Jeffrey Pennala made Aug 24 at 2018 3:54 PM

2018-08-24T15:54:33-04:00

I never understood the "specialist" rank in the Army. In the Navy and Marine Corps when you made E4 you were a fully qualified non-commissioned officer or you wouldn't have held the rank. It just seems like the long way around, if you get non-comm pay you should be a non-comm. If you are in a technical field you need you still need to be a leader. What is the specialist thing about, is it some kind of "nerd force" where all the folks like Sheldon and Leonard from the Big Bang Theory can go an serve and not have to actually take full responsibly for being in the military.

Response by SPC Greg Campbell made Feb 19 at 2019 5:49 PM

2019-02-19T17:49:03-05:00

there wasnt a Spec 4 in my unit that outranked me. only time there was this 'parade rest' was to be called to attention

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 7 at 2019 12:04 AM

2019-03-07T00:04:01-05:00

As far as I know it is only CPL's and above that have that power. SPC's do not assume any NCO responsibilities. I'd like higher enlisted to correct me on the customs and courtesies if I'm wrong, though.

Response by SPC Lyle Montgomery made Oct 20 at 2021 12:48 PM

2021-10-20T12:48:32-04:00

When I was in the Army a specialist aint shit. He is not a NCO and has no rank priveliges over anyone below his rank. I'm talking about a SP.4. Maybe the upper SP ranks are different and The marine Corps has it's own set of rules.

Response by SFC James Cameron made Oct 20 at 2021 11:32 PM

2021-10-20T23:32:08-04:00

The next positions I will name, explain, have demonstrated, and you will perform practical work on…

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=d4E_-dnTUzA

DRILL SERGEANT MODULE REST POSITIONS AT THE HALT

THIS VERSION IS UPDATED JULY 2018. MY NOT BE THE CURRENT VERSION!

Response by SPC Ray Orvin made Nov 25 at 2021 3:44 PM

2021-11-25T15:44:43-05:00

No cause he’s not an nco