Can a Soldier be ordered to shave their mustache?

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 18 Jun 2020 08:28:44 -0400

I'm currently deployed and we are getting a visit from our Brigade Commander. We were told if we have mustaches, we must shave them. AR670-1 states (b) Facial hair. Males will keep their face clean-shaven when in uniform, or in civilian clothes on duty. Mustaches are permitted. If worn, males will keep mustaches neatly trimmed, tapered, and tidy. Mustaches will not present a chopped off or bushy appearance, and no portion of the mustache will cover the upper lip line, extend sideways beyond a vertical line drawn upward from the corners of the mouth (see lines C and D of fig 3–1), or extend above a parallel line at the lowest portion of the nose (see line B of fig 3–1). Handlebar mustaches, goatees, and beards are not authorized. If appropriate medical authority allows beard growth, the maximum length authorized for medical treatment must be specific. For example, “The length of the beard cannot exceed 1/4 inch” (see TB Med 287). Soldiers will keep the growth trimmed to the level specified by the appropriate medical authority, but are not authorized to shape the hair growth (examples include, but are not limited to, goatees, “Fu Manchu,” or handlebar mustaches). My understanding is mustaches are authorized so I don't understand them ordering them shaved. This is strictly for my knowledge. SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL SFC James J. Palmer IV aka "JP4" LTC Stephen F. CPL Dave Hoover SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth SSG Private RallyPoint Member Capt Dwayne Conyers CPT Jack Durish

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 18 at 2020 8:44 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 18 Jun 2020 08:44:31 -0400

pick your battles.... they can't force you to shave it but they can make your life miserable if you don't.

Response by SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth made Jun 18 at 2020 9:09 AM

SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth — Thu, 18 Jun 2020 09:09:07 -0400

The CO has final word on how they want things

Response by SFC Jesse Vazquez Jr /G\ made Jun 18 at 2020 9:12 AM

SFC Jesse Vazquez Jr /G\ — Thu, 18 Jun 2020 09:12:11 -0400

A few questions come to mind! Was the order a verbal order or in writing? Who gave the order? i would abide by the order and shave only to make sure you get into any non disciplinary action for disobeying a lawful order but would make sure the IG is aware of this action.

Response by MCPO Roger Collins made Jun 18 at 2020 9:21 AM

MCPO Roger Collins — Thu, 18 Jun 2020 09:21:04 -0400

Not the hill I would want to die on, they grow back. Pissing off the CO can last forever, in your service record.

Response by TSgt Jack Oberholtzer made Jun 18 at 2020 9:23 AM

TSgt Jack Oberholtzer — Thu, 18 Jun 2020 09:23:23 -0400

Facial hair standards for mustaches are fairly hard to conform to. Hair that is in standard in the morning can be out in the afternoon. The “order” may have been given to reduce the possibility of drama during inspections. Sucks, but they grow back. I shaved before and during most shifts for years. My advice is to shave now and pick any future battles carefully.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 18 at 2020 9:41 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 18 Jun 2020 09:41:28 -0400

My key take away is that "Mustaches are permitted" part. Once could argue that while they are permitted, they can be excluded from being on the face as well. The logic behind that is one could say that they are permitted but not a right. It's a mustache. It's for a visit from the BDE CDR. Just (in private) shrug the shoulders, roll the eyes and shave it off. Then, when the BDE CDR is gone, start growing it back. Not a hill I want to fight for. But then, I also look like crap with just a mustache.

Response by TSgt Dominic Gioffre made Jun 18 at 2020 10:20 AM

TSgt Dominic Gioffre — Thu, 18 Jun 2020 10:20:26 -0400

Maybe the Army is sexist, because they allow women to wear makeup, yet they don’t allow men to have beards. Jokes aside, it’s probably better to follow orders. You are correct in citing the standard, but the common theme is to fall in line.

Response by SGM Steve Wettstein made Jun 18 at 2020 10:21 AM

SGM Steve Wettstein — Thu, 18 Jun 2020 10:21:23 -0400

Do you really want to piss your CoC off for something that you can grow back? Don't burn any bridges because of a mustache.

Response by SPC Clayton Ellzey made Jun 18 at 2020 11:13 AM

SPC Clayton Ellzey — Thu, 18 Jun 2020 11:13:53 -0400

Sfc Sands made me shave mine I pushed my limits .
Your top lip will look funny at first but it will grow back.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 18 at 2020 11:45 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 18 Jun 2020 11:45:04 -0400

I was always told... you can add to, but not take away from a regulation.

Here’s a good article on the subject, it may be old, but it’s insightful nonetheless: https://www.stripes.com/opinion/manipulating-regulations-1.94105

manipulating-regulations-1.94105

Response by SSgt Tom Canning made Jun 18 at 2020 2:38 PM

SSgt Tom Canning — Thu, 18 Jun 2020 14:38:13 -0400

Sorry guys, I wasn’t ARMY but was fortunate enough to serve in the Air Force in the 70’s and 80’s. We were permitted to grow mustaches and even got some Robin Olds style slack cut to us at certain times of year such as “Mustache March”. For the most part no one messed with us as long as we kept them in the required neat and orderly fashion.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 18 at 2020 2:39 PM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 18 Jun 2020 14:39:52 -0400

Is this the hill you want to kill your career on? If so, 'stache on. Shave the thing and grow it back after VIP Dog and Pony.

Response by 1SG Clyde Kessler made Jun 18 at 2020 3:36 PM

1SG Clyde Kessler — Thu, 18 Jun 2020 15:36:00 -0400

This just a little humor. When the Army firstcame out ad authorized the wearing of a mjustache, I was the 1SG of a unit on Okinawa. I had a yung troop walk in and had a little "peach fuzz" under his nose. I ask him what it was and he replied the Army said he could have a mustache, so I am growing one. I then asked him why he was cultivating something under his nose that grows wild around his ass. The poor kid ooked at me like I had lost my mind, walked out and to this day I have never seen him. I feel that it was th e wrong thing to say now, but at the time wasn't thinking.

Response by Sgt Jordan Foster made Jun 18 at 2020 4:25 PM

Sgt Jordan Foster — Thu, 18 Jun 2020 16:25:47 -0400

You ever herd “One of us is not like the other?”

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Jun 18 at 2020 4:32 PM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Thu, 18 Jun 2020 16:32:56 -0400

Having worn a moustache for my entire career, over 30 years, always meeting grooming standards, I must admit that I shave mine four times simply to avoid a conflict that would bare no fruit. I can also say that it is hard to maintain a moustache in a deployed environment. It is likely that the command is trying to save you all grief from a visiting leader who may not tolerate an unkept look, this demandingvUCMJ for those who do not meet the standards. I think you get the point.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Jun 18 at 2020 4:34 PM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Thu, 18 Jun 2020 16:34:10 -0400

To the original point, yes they can, provided you do not meet the standard.

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 18 at 2020 4:47 PM

SCPO Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 18 Jun 2020 16:47:56 -0400

I agree with you SGT Voye I also don't understand why you need to shave off your moustache. (Believe me, I get the whole "because he's the Commander" thing) But why is this Commander pissing off his troops for no good reason that I can see? To me that is the crux of the whole issue. Could an Army senior enlisted or officer please explain to me and educate me as to why this moustache order needed to happen? Is there something I'm missing? OK, this old Senior Chief will calm down now.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 18 at 2020 5:19 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 18 Jun 2020 17:19:53 -0400

I would say "shave it for later" (dad joke)... but seriously not worth the headache of keeping it. They grow back. My last CSM would walk around and rag on anyone that couldn't grow a glorious mustache like his, and that was usually the hint hint wink wink that is needed shaved or trimmed.

Response by SGT Robert Haynes made Jun 18 at 2020 11:14 PM

SGT Robert Haynes — Thu, 18 Jun 2020 23:14:06 -0400

Like others have said, is this worth the hassle. Shave it. It will grow back in a week.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 18 at 2020 11:35 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 18 Jun 2020 23:35:57 -0400

Absolutely. It is a lawful order in regards to grooming.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 19 at 2020 6:04 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 19 Jun 2020 06:04:19 -0400

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 19 at 2020 6:46 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 19 Jun 2020 06:46:05 -0400

The correct answer is, no. The right answer is yes; funny how that works. Like others said, pick your battles. If this is one of them, then so be it. Just print out the regulation and make sure your mustache is in accordance with it to a T. Be ready to take heat though. Other things you have to take into consideration is, even if you’re right, There’s a chance it could hinder your promotion rate...if that’s important to you.

Response by SSG James Stodola made Jun 19 at 2020 9:37 AM

SSG James Stodola — Fri, 19 Jun 2020 09:37:03 -0400

Pick your battles son, its just hair, it will grow back. Once your CO is on your ass it is forever, and so is your record which he will very quickly annotate...

Response by MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P made Jun 20 at 2020 3:00 PM

MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P — Sat, 20 Jun 2020 15:00:32 -0400

Short answer... No they can't (ask me how I know lol).
Long answer... Yes they can order you to shave. This isn't the hill you want to die on. Shave it. Grow it back when the horse's ass isn't around any more. I shaved mine several times throughout my career simply because it wasn't worth the effort of fighting. IF the BDE CO has an "open question" period, you might respectfully broach the subject (preferable one-on-one if possible) of why everyone had to shave. It could boil down to some SNCO with a burr under their saddle for mustaches saw it as an excuse to force shaving.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 21 at 2020 1:24 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 21 Jun 2020 13:24:01 -0400

With all respect: What do you stand to win by sticking your thumb in the eye of your Commander? Making your Commander feel like he doesn't have control of his Soldiers in from of the Brigade Commander won't get you anything. If its worth to you then fight it... but yessh man.....

Response by PO3 Joseph Mcleod made Jun 28 at 2020 2:16 PM

PO3 Joseph Mcleod — Sun, 28 Jun 2020 14:16:58 -0400

When you took the oath to obey all lawful orders it did not say you have a choice, do what the old man says.

Response by PO1 David Shepardson made Jul 12 at 2020 10:15 AM

PO1 David Shepardson — Sun, 12 Jul 2020 10:15:28 -0400

When I was in the Navy there was an Ensign who had a mustache and the CO ordered him to shave it, it was explained he wore the mustache due to a hair lip, but shaved it as ordered, and, yes he had a hair lip. the CO apologized and allowed the Ensign to wear it, I know of no other case where they were allowed. However we did have a mustache contest ONCE....

Response by LCDR Joshua Gillespie made Jul 20 at 2020 10:29 AM

LCDR Joshua Gillespie — Mon, 20 Jul 2020 10:29:39 -0400

Legally? Probably not... but do you want to fall on this sword when the short-term effects of compliance are resolved within a few weeks?

If I were your CO, I would face a similar choice: risk ticking off my Brigade Commander over nuances of grooming regulations... or playing it "safe" knowing the Old Man didn't, "hold with them dadgum moostaches!"

Response by CW3 Michael Clifford made Jul 26 at 2020 11:45 PM

CW3 Michael Clifford — Sun, 26 Jul 2020 23:45:11 -0400

I had on several occasions, while as a CID Agent, both enlisted as a warrant officer, to order soldiers to shave to stand in lineups as “fillers”. All did and each earned CID Certificates of Achievement for “taking one for the team”.

Response by SSG Eric Blue made Aug 10 at 2020 1:58 PM

SSG Eric Blue — Mon, 10 Aug 2020 13:58:57 -0400

Keep in mind that while the regulation states XYZ, it tends to subject to interpretation by the one reading/quoting it and the one you're quoting it to. So be careful with that one and don't be surprised if your commander, first sergeant, platoon sergeant, or first-line tells you to shave it off.

Response by SPC David Young made Aug 11 at 2020 10:56 AM

SPC David Young — Tue, 11 Aug 2020 10:56:43 -0400

I don't see the big issue here.
There seems to be a recurring theme. Mustaches are permitted but it's not some kind of inherent right. Doesn't matter if you like it or not. A unit Commander has some discretion here. Shave it and go about your business. A lawful order is a lawful order. It'll grow back!

Response by SPC John Leite made Jun 18 at 2021 7:51 PM

SPC John Leite — Fri, 18 Jun 2021 19:51:00 -0400

Never got into the facial hair thing and consider myself lucky that I can't even grow a full beard or mustache even if I wanted one, I haven't shaved in weeks and there's barely anything at all there, I have extremely little body hair but on my head? OMG, the stuff grows like a wind blown wildfire and I'm in no danger of going bald

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 21 at 2021 7:17 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 21 Jun 2021 07:17:11 -0400

You could just put in for leave that day. Problem solved.

Response by SSgt Randy Waters made Jun 22 at 2021 3:49 PM

SSgt Randy Waters — Tue, 22 Jun 2021 15:49:49 -0400

I graduated from
Boot Camp on 29 Aug 1969 and ITR 25 Sept 1969 and reported to my first unit, Maint. Co., 5th Service Bn 5th Mar Div, Camp Pendelton. Since I had had a mustache prior to going into the Marines I had every intention of growing one as soon as possible until my Plt Sgt informed me that the Bn.CO was the ONLY Marine in the entire Bn. to have a mustache. I was smart enough, for once, not to fight "city hall" and waited till 3 Dec 1969 when I was released from active duty to go back to my Reserve Unit to start growing it again.