Can a Senior NCO tell their subordinate that they need to purchase a cell phone?

2014-10-24T05:13:33-04:00

So I have a question, this came up today. I was told that I need to purchase a Cell Phone while I am here in Korea, while my phone that I have from the States works fine out here. I was told that the applications that I, along with most other people use, are not an effective form of communication and that I need to purchase a cell phone, and spend the money on the phone as well as the money on the minutes for a prepaid phone. I have looked everywhere, but I was wondering if it was ethical for an SNCO to tell their Soldier that they need to purchase a phone, with his reasoning being that he shouldn't have to go through another NCO to reach me. I have no problem with purchasing a phone out here, I just don't want to do it, since I already have a phone that works. Just looking for guidance, I also don't want to stir the pot, and make a big deal out of it.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 24 at 2014 5:16 AM

2014-10-24T05:16:48-04:00

If they want you to have a phone, issue you a blackberry.

Response by MSgt Roger Lalik made Oct 24 at 2014 12:06 PM

2014-10-24T12:06:06-04:00

No, not ethical and not good leadership.

If phone comm is required then go to your S-4/Supply SNCO or OIC and tell them you want a cell phone issued to you because your SNCO requires you to have cell phone comm with him. Tell them your SNCO is being demanding about this and you don't want to be insubordinate or disobedient. Since your chain of command is insisting. Then the command just must be issuing cell phones..... Hmmmmm... yea, that'll take care of it I believe.

A good leader will never require a subordinate to spend their own money to satisfy their personal demands.

Response by COL Jason Smallfield, PMP, CFM, CM made Oct 24 at 2014 12:13 PM

2014-10-24T12:13:21-04:00

Some points in regards to phone "requirement".
- Your chain of command can not legally order you to make a civilian purchase to service a military or job requirement.
- If having a phone is a military/job requirement then your chain of command should issue you a phone.
- It is the lower echelon/person's responsibility to establish and maintain communications with the higher echelon/person. You fulfill this responsibility personally by providing your contact information to your boss (mailing address, email address, phone, etc).
- Your boss is confusing his/her personal want (I want to get a hold of you easily) versus a defined and legal need (I must be able to get a hold of you during off duty hours).

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 24 at 2014 12:50 PM

2014-10-24T12:50:04-04:00

If a phone was required for your position, then the unit will issue a phone. Being able to reach every Soldier is an absolute requirement.

For example, if a private lives in the barracks the required phone number is the CQ number for the building.

If the Private acquires a cell phone, then it is easier to contact that Soldier via cell or even a house phone number. It is just that 'EASIER'.

***I think too often that modern conveniences confuse some in leadership positions as it is supposed to be a requirement. The basics are still the basics.

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Oct 24 at 2014 1:54 PM

2014-10-24T13:54:21-04:00

Your stateside phone works in Korea?!?!? Did you change out the cards or are you being charged for international usage there? From a practical viewpoint, cellphones in Korea are dirt cheap, MUCH cheaper than plans here in the US. Talking less than $10 a month if it's ONLY a phone and not a smartphone. While I was there, I bought a smartphone for about $200 and a smart phone plan for like $50 a month (tons of minutes and unlimited 3G data access). Not saying that it is okay for them to order you to buy a phone......but it's not very expensive at all.....

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 25 at 2014 3:29 AM

2014-10-25T03:29:21-04:00

No they can't force you but when I was in my old unit before I got out a Soldier didn't have a phone nor anyway to contact anyone or vice versa so they made him check into CQ every hr or every 2 hrs.

Not sure how this would be handled but thats how they did with him.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 25 at 2014 5:16 AM

2014-10-25T05:16:53-04:00

Command can't require you to purchase a phone. You're covered as long as you provide contact info. However if you do purchase a phone for work keep your receipts. You can claim it on your taxes and get most of your money back at the end of the year.

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 25 at 2014 7:44 AM

2014-10-25T07:44:41-04:00

Anybody..... even a lowly E-nothing, can afford a cell phone. A smart phone at that. I posted a thread about this a while back, but Republic Wireless has phone plans for $10 a month. Unlimited talk text, and data via WiFi. This month they released a phone that the cost of the phone, no gimics, no contract, is only $99 up front. One of my co-workers bought one this week on my recommendation and had it in his hand within 24 hours.

http://rwshar.es/bkVH0

https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/does-anyone-else-use-republic-wireless-as-their-cell-phone-carrier

Edit****I COMPLETELY missed the part about Korea in the original post. Is there a problem with buying a cheap cheap prepaid phone to use solely for calls while youre in korea? Before I switched to RW, I bought "dumb phone" at Target for $10, and bought prepaid minutes on it that lasted until they ran out and re-upped as needed....I get that it's a little bit of cost to you, but personally, I don't think it's unreasonable for them to be able to reach you. And truth be told, they probably won't call often, if ever, so if you buy never expiring minutes.... you'll have practiced the art of CYA :)

No Contract Phones | Moto E & Moto X | Republic Wireless

No-contract phones that use WiFi first for calls, texts + data & switch automatically to cell when WiFi is out of range.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 25 at 2014 7:51 AM

2014-10-25T07:51:41-04:00

SGT,
The answer is no. He can't make you get another cell phone. That being said, it will make your time as his Soldier much easier if you do. It is cheap to get a cellphone there. You never know when you will need that SNCO to have your back. Life in the Army is a lot better when you don't ruffle feathers. Worst case scenario, you keep all of the receipts and file them as exemptions on your taxes as work related expenses.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 25 at 2014 11:35 AM

2014-10-25T11:35:01-04:00

Unrelated to Military service, but this reminds me of a story growing up:
My senior year in high school they had changed the math courses around and added an Algebra 3. I was enrolled and one of the requirements" was to provide your own graphing calculator. My parents being of the frugal variety at the time got me a nice little casio one for $50. First day of class they would only accept the Texas Instruments TI-83; which everyone else had (save one overacheiver in the back who had a TI-85. Since the instructor geared all of his sylibus towards programming the TI-83 and similar, they "issued" me one as opposed to having me go out and buy another $90 calculator.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 25 at 2014 1:27 PM

2014-10-25T13:27:54-04:00

Most of the answers here are the same, and are correct.

Short answer, no they cannot order you to have a cell phone. Feel free to stop reading now.

Long answer, a higher ranking person cannot "order" a lower ranking to spend their money on anything that is not uniform related. The reason for that is you get a clothing allowance which requires you to replace anything that is not serviceable, IE ACUs with rips in them. If you CoC is not happy with the means you have available to communicate, that is an issue with them. You are merely making things less convenient on them, and wah wah wah for them. If you are using Line, KiK, or any of those WiFi accessible texting applications, then that is a way to get a hold of you and that is all they need. If that is not good enough for them, they need to issue you a phone unless you want to shell out of pocket.

On the flip side of that, your NCO can always tell you "if you don't want to buy a phone, you are required to be with Person B at all times just in case something happens and I need to get a hold of you" or something to that effect. If this SNCO wants to be an [expletive deleted] about things, he can. That would show bad character on his part, but he could do that.

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Oct 25 at 2014 5:48 PM

2014-10-25T17:48:58-04:00

I had the same situation in Korea as well. I finally gave in but I purchased a very used and very cheap cell phone and I charged it with minutes once a month. That ended the bitching and complaining.

Response by SSG Genaro Negrete made Oct 25 at 2014 6:03 PM

2014-10-25T18:03:45-04:00

I would emphasis that if you can respond to his communications on your current phone, there shouldn't be a need to purchase a korean phone. Tact is key here. Ultimately, the worst he can do is make life uncomfortable for you. Should he be foolish enough to put this in a counseling statement, the 1SG and CSM will immediately see that the directive to purchase a phone will not hold water.

In the "choose your battles" mind frame, I'd say that this may be a small battle. Perhaps you can get a cheap phone (maybe from someone PCS'ing) just to check the block. If it fails, you still have a second number to be reached at. In this particular scenario, you'll have to stay on your P's and Q's to ensure there isn't any legitimate reason for the SNCO to chew your butt.

Response by PO2 Rocky Kleeger made Oct 25 at 2014 6:47 PM

2014-10-25T18:47:45-04:00

If they don't have a land line, and have no other valid recall, then I would say yes

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 25 at 2014 11:44 PM

2014-10-25T23:44:22-04:00

You're required to be able to be recalled.

Response by SFC Vernon McNabb made Oct 27 at 2014 1:27 PM

2014-10-27T13:27:08-04:00

The Army cannot force a Soldier to purchase a cell phone. Just the same, they cannot force you to have a Facebook page so they can see if you "Like" them. I have a cell phone here in Alabama, but the provider really sucks. I also have a home phone, which the CoC has if they need to reach me at home. I was told at one point that I needed to switch providers, which would cost more money to be released from the contract. I am still with the same provider, but the person who tried to order me to switch providers is no longer here. Funny how problems seem to work themselves out.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 16 at 2014 5:18 AM

2014-11-16T05:18:43-05:00

I have always been told that they cannot force you to spend your own money. If they are going to require you to purchase an item for use in the way you describe then the unit must purchase it for you or issue it to you.

Response by SA Harold Hansmann made Nov 16 at 2014 7:57 AM

2014-11-16T07:57:04-05:00

It seems to me that your snco at a minimum should be able to send a text or a group text out to you and the rest of the guys/gals under his command, since your cell phone is working there. Group text is a lot easier and they can't say " well I didn't know"

Response by SSG Robert Burns made Dec 3 at 2014 11:24 PM

2014-12-03T23:24:45-05:00

Offer to purchase his phone from him for $1. Problem solved.

Response by MAJ Dallas D. made Dec 4 at 2014 10:13 AM

2014-12-04T10:13:53-05:00

SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member as others have said they cannot make you purchase one. I do recall when I was there you could get a phone and not buy any minutes but you would still get incoming calls. Maybe you could look for a cheap used phone on base (I think i spent $10 on mine) and then not put any minutes on it since you only need it for incoming calls.

Again Not the Right answer but maybe one that will make your life easier.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 4 at 2014 10:34 AM

2014-12-04T10:34:07-05:00

My organization cannot/will not (not sure which, but betting on the former) issue me a phone. However, they expect me to conduct business VIA email, text, and voice from my phone. So what I do is write off a portion of the expense on my taxes.