"BREAKING: U.S. Army Switching to Hollow Point Ammunition"

RallyPoint Shared Content — Thu, 09 Jul 2015 09:36:53 -0400

Published by: thetruthaboutguns.com
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Sources tell TTAG that the United States Army is switching from ball to hollow-point ammunition for its next generation handgun. The Army dropped the bombshell yesterday at the Modular Handgun System Industry Day in Picatinny, New Jersey. The event was held as part of the Army’s procurement process to replace the Beretta M9 handgun and the ammunition used for the gun. After making the announcement, an Army lawyer mounted the stage to mount a defense for the switch hollow-points . . .

The U.S. did not agree to a ban on expanding ammo by international treaty. And the the Army’s prepared to defend the decision in the court of international law and opinion. His core argument: countries that will denounce the use of hollow-point use the hollow points for their police forces.

The Army said it will rely on FBI data to evaluate bids for the new ammunition. It also said that it knows it will get heat for the move, but claimed the administration supported the change at the highest levels at the Department of Defense. In other words, this is as close to a done deal as it can get without a signed contract.

The question is: what about rifle ammo? We’re looking into it. Watch this space.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2015/07/robert-farago/breaking-u-s-army-switching-to-hollow-point-ammunition/

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 9 at 2015 9:42 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 09 Jul 2015 09:42:20 -0400

One Shot. One Kill

Response by SFC Everett Oliver made Jul 9 at 2015 9:45 AM

SFC Everett Oliver — Thu, 09 Jul 2015 09:45:44 -0400

About time.

Response by SPC Jan Allbright, M.Sc., R.S. made Jul 9 at 2015 9:46 AM

SPC Jan Allbright, M.Sc., R.S. — Thu, 09 Jul 2015 09:46:25 -0400

I though Ball was the only "legal" ammo for war use.
You don't really want to kill someone, right?
You want to wound them, which drags down resources.

Response by SrA Edward Vong made Jul 9 at 2015 9:51 AM

SrA Edward Vong — Thu, 09 Jul 2015 09:51:29 -0400

I could've sworn that hollow-points are against the Law of Armed Conflict. I do remember once a verified Marine friend of mine told me that they were authorized to use hollow points at one point during his deployment. I'm not sure if he was telling the truth.

Can any Marine chime in on this?

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Jul 9 at 2015 9:53 AM

LTC Paul Labrador — Thu, 09 Jul 2015 09:53:39 -0400

Interesting. The military has always used JHPs for MPs, and SoF always had access to them legally (counter-terror is considered law enforecement not land warfare). Quite frankly, we've been finding ways to skirt the Hague for years anyways. It will be interesting to see if a) this is true and b) if rifle ammo is also up for change. JHPs and expanding ammo is a interesting quandry. Expanding ammo will give 5.56mm a significant inrease in lethality. However, JHPs do worse than FMJ against barriers (such as light cover and body armor). Do we trade off the increased lethality with poorer barrier penetration? Incidentally, all copper JHP hog hunting ammo (Hog Hammer TSX and Hornady GMX) provide good penetration to pierce thick hides and muscle but also deliver sufficeintly lethal wounds even in 5.56mm.

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 9 at 2015 9:59 AM

Cpl Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 09 Jul 2015 09:59:07 -0400

Wasn't the use of hollow point projectiles, or "To employ arms, projectiles, or material calculated to cause unnecessary suffering" banned by the Hague?
SECTION II HOSTILITIES
CHAPTER I Means of Injuring the Enemy, Sieges, and bombardments
Artical 23

Response by COL Charles Williams made Jul 9 at 2015 10:06 AM

COL Charles Williams — Thu, 09 Jul 2015 10:06:49 -0400

RallyPoint Shared Content I hope it is true. This makes sense for handguns for both law enforcement and tactical use.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 9 at 2015 10:08 AM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 09 Jul 2015 10:08:58 -0400

Personally I prefer Frangible Ammo, there are a lot of advantages to them.

Response by SSG John Erny made Jul 9 at 2015 10:09 AM

SSG John Erny — Thu, 09 Jul 2015 10:09:46 -0400

Then use Hornady XTP hollow points, the best!

Response by SFC Joseph Bosley made Jul 9 at 2015 10:41 AM

SFC Joseph Bosley — Thu, 09 Jul 2015 10:41:37 -0400

Maybe the Pentagon is finally realizing that the 9mm and 5.56mm rounds SUCK for combat purposes. They don't dump energy anywhere quick enough when they hit the target necessitating multiple hits to actually stop a target. Switching to hollow points might just be a lower cost alternative to retooling the entire US Military in an effort to get the weapons more effective.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 9 at 2015 12:08 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 09 Jul 2015 12:08:48 -0400

I hope it does happen. Soldiers "modify" issued ammo, this practice is dangerous and has resulted in injuries.

Response by SPC David Hannaman made Jul 9 at 2015 12:51 PM

SPC David Hannaman — Thu, 09 Jul 2015 12:51:27 -0400

Still won't make a damn bit of difference if you don't TRAIN THEM TO HIT THE FREAKING TARGET.

Most of the guys I knew that carried pistols only fired 40 rounds a year, excellent pilots, but needed a "pinch hitter" at the range. Give 'em a .22 and keep the same budget for ammo... hitting someone in the face with a .22 will do more damage than missing them with a Desert Eagle .44.

Response by PO1 John Miller made Jul 9 at 2015 1:09 PM

PO1 John Miller — Thu, 09 Jul 2015 13:09:45 -0400

I'll wait and see if a verified/trusted website picks up this story. I did a quick Google search and could only find websites that I have never heard of carrying this story.

Response by PO1 John Miller made Jul 9 at 2015 1:11 PM

PO1 John Miller — Thu, 09 Jul 2015 13:11:29 -0400

To everyone saying that JHP bullets will only be used by police forces assigned to US bases, I didn't see that in the quoted article. All I saw was this statement: "His core argument: countries that will denounce the use of hollow-point use the hollow points for their police forces." All that statement tells me is police forces use hollow point rounds so why can't the Army?

Response by SGT Greg Gold made Jul 9 at 2015 7:45 PM

SGT Greg Gold — Thu, 09 Jul 2015 19:45:57 -0400

MP's and SOCOM have been using hollow points for quite a while now, but I think arming the whole US military with this type of ammo won't do anything. So few troops are actually issued pistols that it won't really affect the force. Hollow point rifle ammo is a whole 'nuther story.

Response by MSgt David Haupt made Jul 17 at 2015 12:08 PM

MSgt David Haupt — Fri, 17 Jul 2015 12:08:53 -0400

So the AF has been using hollow-points for stateside bases since '02ish. It is not approved for deployments because it is not a NATO approved round.