"Ben Bernanke: Being In the Military Won’t Actually Help You in the Real World"

2015-08-18T14:02:58-04:00

From: Foreign Policy

The U.S. military has spent tens of millions of dollars on TV advertising promoting the armed forces as a great way to acquire skills and training that will pay dividends in the private sector. But on Monday, one of the country’s most respected observers of the U.S. labor force, former Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke, directly contradicted that message.

“The evidence appears to be that there really is not an advantage,” Bernanke told a crowd at a Brookings Institution event in Washington. “If you go into the military at age 18 — versus an identical person who stays in the private sector and takes a private sector job — 10 years later, if you leave the military, your skills and wages are probably not going to be quite as high on average as the private sector person.”

Bernanke specifically called out the U.S. Army for using misleading advertising and noted that for veterans who left the military after 2001, the unemployment rate is just above 7 percent, as opposed to the national average of 5.3 percent.

“The military takes our younger people and uses them for good purposes, but it’s not really adding much to the private sector through training or other experience,” Bernanke said.

The remarks have already drawn heavy fire from veterans who say the renowned economist, widely credited for leading the Fed out of the greatest financial crisis since the Great Depression, is wrong on the facts.

“I am not sure where Mr. Bernanke got his information, but the current numbers just don’t reflect saying military service does not help you succeed in the private sector,” said Fred Wellman, a 22-year Army veteran and CEO of ScoutComms, a veteran-focused advocacy firm. “The most current surveys show that veterans are far more likely to be employed than non-veterans and earn higher median incomes in those jobs.”

Frustrated by the claim, Wellman added that Bernanke’s remarks were “just another example of the civil-military divide, wherein Americans have ill-informed or dated views of what veterans bring to our country.”

Phil Carter, an Army vet who served in Iraq and is now a senior fellow at the Center for a New American Security, says the reality is more complicated than both sides are letting on.

According to surveys and data from the Department of Veterans Affairs, Wellman is correct that the total unemployment rate for veterans overall is lower than for the general public. However, Bernanke is also correct that post-9/11 veterans, specifically, have a higher unemployment rate than non-veterans when adjusting for demographic differences.

Carter said that an important factor is that veterans who served prior to 9/11 — predominantly white males — tend to do well in the private sector and are beating the national average for unemployment by a significant margin, a fact that distorts the average.

However, he also pushed back against Bernanke, noting that post-9/11 veterans won’t immediately see a benefit from military service due to the time it takes to readjust to private sector work. But, he said, those skills do pay off over time — which will be reflected in future surveys.

“It takes time for veterans to catch up, but the data show that they do catch up and, in many ways, surpass their peers over time,” he said.

Ultimately though, Carter acknowledged that Bernanke’s contention is a sensitive one because it threatens the entire premise of America’s modern military. “Bernanke’s speaking a very uncomfortable truth that goes to the core of the all-volunteer force,” said Carter. “The whole idea is it can recruit people by saying, ‘You’ll serve your country and be better off afterwards,’” he said. “Bernanke’s comments suggest that might not be true, and that’s a big problem for the all-volunteer force.”

https://foreignpolicy.com/2015/08/17/ben-bernanke-being-in-the-military-wont-actually-help-you-in-the-real-world/

Response by SCPO David Lockwood made Aug 18 at 2015 2:17 PM

2015-08-18T14:17:49-04:00

You're welcome Ben. If wasn't for us military protecting your freedom of speech you make not have been able to say that.

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Aug 18 at 2015 2:19 PM

2015-08-18T14:19:24-04:00

Any statistic can be manipulated to fit the individual's agenda. I have never met anyone in the military who joined to get rich. That type of personr is not typically motivated to become rich and powerful, more like a defender of the innocent from the bullies of the world. That has never been a high paying job. Military, EMT's, firefighters, cops, all bust their butt for peanuts yet get crap wages. But salary be damned. That type of service is a calling, not a line on some resume. Even if we start out behind our civilian counterparts, I would hire a veteran any day for what they bring to the table. It can't be taught in any classroom and certainly not in any board room.

Response by CMSgt Mark Schubert made Aug 18 at 2015 2:20 PM

2015-08-18T14:20:47-04:00

"Catch up?" to what? So we can be as smart as you and say crap like this?
NO THANK YOU!
I'm fine Ben - and if it weren't for people like me and my RP brothers and sisters, you'd be saying that crap in a different language!

Response by SGT James Elphick made Aug 18 at 2015 2:33 PM

2015-08-18T14:33:18-04:00

I think part of that has to do that the private sector won't generally accept military training and certificates. That means that service members have to go back to school or take a test to get a job in the civilian world that they have already been doing in the military (and probably at a higher level too). Also, it seems like he is not accounting for the fact that a veteran can get out of service with all of that experience, then get a college degree (pretty much for free these days), and then get a better job than his civilian counterpart who couldn't afford to go to college. I think his assertions are disingenuous at best.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2015 2:55 PM

2015-08-18T14:55:27-04:00

I love a**clowns. They make me laugh.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2015 3:03 PM

2015-08-18T15:03:44-04:00

If true, then this is another example of what is wrong with our country and by extension, the world. Bernanke might be another child of the sixties who have only hidden contempt for the military since spitting on Vets became less popular.

Response by MSgt Roger Younce made Aug 18 at 2015 3:07 PM

2015-08-18T15:07:42-04:00

Face it, old Ben is an idiot.

Response by A1C Hillary Matchen made Aug 18 at 2015 3:42 PM

2015-08-18T15:42:14-04:00

I went in homeless. I came out with the knowlege and skills to get a job in security and the ability to go to nursing school. Without the military I would still be homeless. Sorry Mr. Burnanke but you're wrong.

Response by SSG Carlos Madden made Aug 18 at 2015 3:59 PM

2015-08-18T15:59:22-04:00

I don't think he's wrong. But I also don't believe going to college will actually help you in the real world either. Your ability to leverage your interests, networks, people skills, and experience - to include the military and your education - is the biggest factor.

Response by PO1 Harvey Easton made Aug 18 at 2015 4:12 PM

2015-08-18T16:12:30-04:00

This idiot is making decisions (financial) that will negatively affect every American citizen for generations. Now I must ask 'What's his angle, his agenda?' Is he trying to discourage the best and brightest from serving our military? If so, why? Something to do with 'The New World Order' ??

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2015 4:58 PM

2015-08-18T16:58:11-04:00

Sure Mr. Bernake...If by that you mean that former military have a harder time adjusting to the sometimes less than honorable, often other than forthright and occasionally down-right confusing nature of some aspects of the modern work force.

Response by SPC David S. made Aug 18 at 2015 5:03 PM

2015-08-18T17:03:59-04:00

Money isn't everything Ben - there are many intangibles that make a person "better" that you can't cash in at the bank. Just look at Pat Tillman as an example. Also the comparisons are not equal based on socioeconomic factors. I would argue that SM's from lower income conditions are doing better than their peers having served. On the other end sure the white guy going to Stanford might end up being more financial successful but again when quantifying what "success" is its not always about the money.

Response by PO3 Alan Haynes made Aug 18 at 2015 5:43 PM

2015-08-18T17:43:25-04:00

Im living proof that Bernanke full-o'-the-Crap.
Always simple to make a complaint, difficult to find a solution.
He looks and sounds like a Govt douche-canoe anyway.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2015 6:12 PM

2015-08-18T18:12:51-04:00

2 points here:

A. His beard is WAY out of regs. He just needs to start pushing now.
B. I'm 9 months out from Retirement. I already have a job locked in making just as much as I do now (if not more depending if I want the OT). So his argument is a moot point to me.

BLUF. Screw him! And his cronies.

*drops mic and walks out of room*

Response by GySgt John O'Donnell made Aug 18 at 2015 6:30 PM

2015-08-18T18:30:48-04:00

I would love the opportunity to read and respond to Ben Benanke comments, but every time I open your link it requires me to "subscribe" to the website "for a cost". Please post a fashion that allows RP members to access without cost, if you want good feedback.

Response by SGT Lawrence Corser made Aug 18 at 2015 7:12 PM

2015-08-18T19:12:14-04:00

Kind of if you have a super cool MOS like mine was (11B)

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2015 7:38 PM

2015-08-18T19:38:22-04:00

I took it to mean , that military service is not a guarantee of success in the civilian world , as some recruiting ads might have one believe.

Response by SSgt Charles Edwards made Aug 18 at 2015 7:55 PM

2015-08-18T19:55:02-04:00

I know I've struggled to get a job after military service, but that's a by-product of me going back to school and trying to get myself into the sports industry. Unfortunately, that is a tough road to walk as many institutions dedicated to certifying people in that field aren't veteran friendly. By that I mean they don't accept the GI Bill to cover cost of training /courses. However, the military does a lot for its members in getting them ready with skills. Military police, medical personnel, pilots, mechanics and others all get valuable skills needed to succeed in the post-military life. It's up to the service member on what direction to take.

Response by COL Jon Thompson made Aug 18 at 2015 8:15 PM

2015-08-18T20:15:13-04:00

The military has such a diverse range of jobs for both enlisted and officers that you cannot generalize this like he seems to do. I know from my personal experience that this is not necessarily true. I left active duty as an Infantry officer in 1996 after not being selected for promotion to Major. A couple of months later, I started working as a station manager for Hertz Corporation at Chicago-O'Hare, the 4th largest rental car operation in the company. 8 months later, I was promoted to Senior Station Manager and ran several of the departments. When I left there 11 years later, I was the Operations Manager (#2) of the location. I was promoted because I knew how to lead and manage people in a very dynamic environment. That came from being in the Army. One of my best managers there was a former enlisted Marine. I enjoyed working with him because he knew that the mission came first (in this case, it was staying until business allowed us to leave). Most of the other non-military managers did not have that same attitude.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2015 8:43 PM

2015-08-18T20:43:18-04:00

I feel like many of you feel as if he is attacking veterans, and I didnt really get that vibe from the article. I feel that he is pointing out a problem that puts us vets at a disadvantage when it comes to transitioning into the private sector, and I think that if this is truly a problem, it's a GOOD THING to point it out. How else are we going to address it if no one is willing to bring it up! It's almost as if he is advocating for veterans, not bashing them.

Response by CPT Russell Pitre made Aug 19 at 2015 1:25 AM

2015-08-19T01:25:37-04:00

Not usually sure how this really matters. He is a bureaucrat. Just saying more useless stuff like the rest.

Response by Maj William Gambrell made Aug 19 at 2015 2:17 AM

2015-08-19T02:17:13-04:00

There is a valid point in what he says, but only partly accurate. The fact that the military is a ranked based pay system vice job skill set pay scale differentiate's us from the commercial industry. There are a lot of over paid people in the military that stay in because they cannot make the same pay in the commercial industry based on their skill set. The highly technical people in the military tend to leave early after getting the training and find good jobs in the tech sector. I know people will disagree with me, but it is reality. Until the military begins to model the commercial sector in pay, it will continue to become an issue.

It will continue to be a problem of losing the best early or keeping the best to retirement.

Response by SGT Jeremiah B. made Aug 19 at 2015 2:22 AM

2015-08-19T02:22:09-04:00

I just like how everyone here defaults to this being some sort of insult to service members instead of a criticism against the military's advertising campaign. "Transferable skills" aren't worth what they used to be and a college degree is the new High School diploma. A great number of companies could give a crap about your military experience or veteran status.

People who stay civilian have a leg up. At first.The last guy in the interview has a great point - Bernanke's right, but it's the long game that matters. We don't quite know what that looks like for GWOT vets yet, but historically, vets will do better.

Response by SSgt Alex Robinson made Aug 19 at 2015 7:44 AM

2015-08-19T07:44:41-04:00

Stupid comments from a clueless man

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 19 at 2015 8:41 AM

2015-08-19T08:41:40-04:00

I think he's missing the life skills (teamwork, discipline, leadership, etc.) that most vets take away from the military. Those skills might not translate directly to a higher salary right away, but they make a better employee. That, to me, is a major benefit of having served in the military.

Response by SFC Michael Milihram made Aug 19 at 2015 10:08 AM

2015-08-19T10:08:07-04:00

Bernanke is a moron. One has to wonder where this buffoon gets his information, who the people are who gather the data, and why they are compiling information which provides this man from being so narrow-minded and biased. I can't tell you how many Veterans and military personnel I talk to each day at the VA Med. Cntr, where my Advocacy Office for MOPH is located. There are so many living examples of how military service IS beneficial, not only to these Veterans, but to their families and their communities. Perhaps Mr. Bernanke should either a) completely Retire and withdraw from the public view, or b) actually make time to visit military communities, VA facilities, and community groups all over the country to rely on empirical fact, straight "from the horses' mouth." No wonder the Federal Reserve is as despised as it is, this man obviously did nothing to embellish or improve the character and or function of a governmental entity (even though it really ISN'T a part of the federal government....).

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 19 at 2015 11:40 AM

2015-08-19T11:40:29-04:00

This is because a whole lot of Soldiers get out and claim unemployment for a few months to chill out and take there time looking for a job.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 19 at 2015 10:54 PM

2015-08-19T22:54:56-04:00

Here is why I believe this very intelligent man is wrong:
First, the numbers he is looking at have nothing to do with the potential that the military (specifically the Army)offers. Your competitiveness in the real world is based on your drive to take advantage of the opportunities offered to you. Not only is your specific Army MOS transferable to the civilian sector, but you have tuition assistance and the GI Bill that offer you the chance to learn something completely different. Then, you have the opportunity to change your MOS at reenlistment, and get something more marketable. Don't have the asvab scores for the job you want? Take the free fast class. Couldn't get a security clearance? Apply again at reenlistment (or sooner in many cases). If you already have your gen eds, the Army can send you to college to become a nurse for free. If you have no college, you literally just need to work on your PT, and drop a packet to go to West Point, or WOCS. PAYS program offers a free interview. Or you can stay in and retire out of the Army. And MORE!
So, I can say confidently, the Army, that very intelligent man is wrong. The military DOES offer the OPPORTUNITY to be better prepared for the civilian sector than without. Who, and how many people take advantage of those opportunities is a completely different story.

Response by MSgt Ron Schuler made Aug 25 at 2015 12:28 AM

2015-08-25T00:28:54-04:00

It always seem to amaze me that there is someone who thinks he knows everything but doesn't have a clue about what the military is all about. As a young person coming out of high school who has no idea what career path they want to follow or can't afford to go to college the military affords them the opportunities to gain experience and education that they would never have been able to get otherwise. In addition, the military affords individuals the opportunity to receive leadership experience. I would hire a veteran who has all the experience the military provides before anyone else.

Response by SPC Luis Mendez made Oct 25 at 2015 3:44 PM

2015-10-25T15:44:11-04:00

Life Experiences tells us that too. So I mostly agree with Mr. Bernanke. The numbers are and are NOT there, depending on what you're looking for. I agree a 100% on his calling out the Army for using Misleading Ads. Most of the Army and Marines is Infantry and there not equivalents in Civilian life for that. The AF and the Navy however do have some MOS that are Very, very useful in the Civil life, the Main one is; Pilots. Lots of Airlines pilots came out of both the USAF and the Navy.

Response by SMSgt William Law made Nov 18 at 2016 12:02 AM

2016-11-18T00:02:56-05:00

From someone who never served.

Response by SGT Kevin Hughes made Feb 24 at 2020 2:33 PM

2020-02-24T14:33:44-05:00

First, money isn't the only criteria for what the Military Teaches you. If your benchmark for success is monetary gain...you never served...or if you did, you had a rough time. Second, I am reminded of a quote by Mark Twain: "There are lies, damn lies, and statistics."
Third...every person I ever met in my career became a better person in most ways...some had to fight demons not available to the usual course of "business" in the private sector. Those nightmares show up in the number of PTSD cases...and all of those guys are working to be better people than the forms of self medication they chose to help themselves deal with the pain, both psychic and physical. And it is the things they learned in the Service that will help them recover.
The few areas where a "head start" did make a difference for the Private Sector...doesn't establish how many Service Members both caught up, and surpassed the average employee. In fact, I would be willing to argue that the outliers at the top end...are likely to have served!

Enough said.

Response by Sgt Kelli Mays made Feb 24 at 2020 4:29 PM

2020-02-24T16:29:34-05:00

What ever! First of all the particular skill the Army may have trained someone in may not apply to the outside world....but! I bet that person is a better person after having served...has more discipline and aptitude to better their life than before serving...furthermore, the Army/Military gives everyone the opportunity to go to College which will Definitely help them with employment in the outside world.