Be professional, pick your battles, admit when you're wrong.

2015-01-06T13:48:19-05:00

Current service members I applaud your professionalism, standards of conduct and desire to make on the spot corrections.

However ... Please critically look at the situation, context and be professional in your on the spot corrections. And always be prepared to admit your mistaken.
I teach motorcycle safety on post as a contractor. Today I was eating lunch in the shoppette (Blimpie sub sandwich next door).
I look the part of a Senior soldier for the most part mannerisms, please, thank you, yes Ma'am, clean moderate clothing, well within weight standards, no piercings, (not that i have an issue with it) no Tats (again not that I see it as an issue), .. In civilian clothes of course, though needing a haircut and a shave.

A young 1SG decided I needed an on the spot correction.. I was informed I needed to keep a military appearance even when off duty or on leave.
I smiled and asked him if he was aware retirees are allowed to eat in the shoppette? And if I looked like a subordinate soldier whose behavior could be modified with an on the spot correction from him, in the manner to which he addressed me?

He responded that he did not care what rank I was I needed to "fix myself" The retiree question went over his head.

I told him thanks for his concern but I'm a retired SGM and no longer subject to grooming standards of the U.S. Army...

Furthermore he may want to consider who he is addressing and how before being snide and speaking down to a soldier (it was more how went about it, than what was said... .. It was a you had to be there)
The 1SG refused to acknowledge he mistake which was bad form to say the least and walked away in a huff.

Morel of the story ... Active duty folks please continue policing your own... But what you say and how you say it is just as important as the why. And always be a professional even if you make an honest mistake.

I wonder if that 1SG knows I had lunch with his bde CSM last week?

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 6 at 2015 2:22 PM

2015-01-06T14:22:46-05:00

That goes to all ranks. Treat soldiers with respect, get respect. That doesn't mean you have to be soft. It doesn't mean you can't uphold the standards. It doesn't even mean you can't be hard. I really have a hard time describing what I feel, but respect goes a long ways. And it's unfortunate when soldiers and leaders confuse respect with softness, or simply lack respect.
SGM Erik Marquez, thanks for this post, SGM.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Jan 6 at 2015 3:00 PM

2015-01-06T15:00:24-05:00

Ugh speaking of professional
My typos are atrocious in this post, for that I apologize.

On my phone today and can not edit to correct.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 6 at 2015 3:11 PM

2015-01-06T15:11:38-05:00

My favorite was in a deployed location, where we decided we were going to salute wearing PT gear. Friend of mine was entering the chow hall in PT gear, arriving at the door about the same time as a captain and a TSgt. The TSgt said "hey, aren't you going to salute the captain? Last time I checked, we salute officers in the Air Force". My friend responded by producing his ID card, which listed his rank as "major", and asked, "do you think I should salute him?"

This was my constant problem with the on-the-spot corrections in the deployed location. A complete lack of common courtesy and respect. I wouldn't talk to the most junior airman the way these SNCOs often addressed officers.

Response by SPC Stephanie Oanes made Jan 6 at 2015 3:43 PM

2015-01-06T15:43:27-05:00

Should have whipped out your retiree ID and made him feel like a jackass!

Response by CSM Michael J. Uhlig made Jan 6 at 2015 4:57 PM

2015-01-06T16:57:42-05:00

This is a great topic SGM Erik Marquez! There's a tremendous responsibility and expectation when entrusted with each promotion (discussing the NCO ranks) along our careers. The thing about that responsibility is that we are not required to accept the promotion however, when we do accept that promotion the expectation is that we will continue to be a professional, take care of our Soldiers and accomplish our mission. With each promotion, our scope of influence, accountability for mission accomplishment, and expectation for fair and impartial treatment of our Soldiers increase.

Any leader can berate or pick on a Soldier "flexing their rank" in an attempt to prove they are the more senior ranking person however, the professional that is able to make the on-the-spot correction where it makes sense to the Soldier really transforms the decision making of that Soldier. I understand there are times where you must make a forceful on-the-spot correction (e.g. while engaged in a complex attack) however, the shoppette on Fort Hood offers a little more flexibility to the use of a leaders time. Not the best approach by the 1SG in this situation - I wonder if he'd be receptive of the same corrective actions?

Response by SGT Kristin Wiley made Jan 6 at 2015 5:42 PM

2015-01-06T17:42:54-05:00

SGM,

I definitely understand where you are coming from with these corrections. Once a Navy Senior Chief was told by a Navy Officer that my Army uniform looked incorrect; so she pulled an Army E-7 into an office with me to examine my uniform. Looking to appease the officer they were determined to find something wrong. "You aren't allowed to tailor your ACUs you know," they said. I replied, "My ACUs aren't tailored, I'm wearing the new ACU-A top which gives that appearance." Then they said "well your sleeves are too long, you need a smaller top." I replied, "This top is within regulations, and I can't wear a smaller top, because it would not fit over my hips." Finally they gave up and let me go on my way.

It was very frustrating, and I had a similar conversation not long after about my civilian clothing (in Hawaii) that I left in from work one day to attend college classes. "I wouldn't let you leave a ship like that; there is no way that's in Army regulations." I don't work on a ship, and my clothing was within Marine Corps Base regulations (base I worked on), and the Navy base regulations (where my college classes were) [feel free to view my discussion on clothing policies to know why I don't say they are within USAG-HI regulations]. Neither of these individuals were in my direct chain of command nor did they notify my chain of command to allow them to address the issue or explain why the issue didn’t need addressed.

The problem with these on the spot corrections is that the individuals doing the correcting have little to no information on the person they are correcting. I found it personally offensive that a Senior Navy Chief was trying to correct me on my Army uniform without even reading Army regulations. It was also concerning with the senior Army NCO knew less about the uniform regulations than I did. We should perform on-the-spot corrections, but we need to arm ourselves with the appropriate knowledge to make those corrections. That 1SGs first question to you should have been to cordially ask if you were currently a soldier. Had this 1SG asked the right people the right questions before making his ‘correction’ he would have saved himself some embarrassment and avoided causing you any offense.

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 6 at 2015 6:16 PM

2015-01-06T18:16:42-05:00

Classic tale, SGM Erik Marquez! I especially liked the ending about your having lunch with the 1SG's Brigade CSM. Doesn't get much better than that.

Thanks for sharing your story and outstanding advice. People can get a little over-motivated and forget about tact and professionalism.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 6 at 2015 7:04 PM

2015-01-06T19:04:06-05:00

He was probably trying to get an ARCOM.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 6 at 2015 7:09 PM

2015-01-06T19:09:52-05:00

SGM Erik Marquez, you didn't fully explain the situation. There you were, in a shopette, in need of of a haircut and a shave. And a young 1SG had the audacity to call you out? Really?

Not that it matters. I just want to know if you fetched ice for that burn you gave him.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 6 at 2015 7:42 PM

2015-01-06T19:42:19-05:00

You did the right thing SGM Erik Marquez , hopefully he learned something from this. You are 100% right that we should all be able to admit our mistakes.

Response by SPC Stewart Smith made Jan 6 at 2015 8:49 PM

2015-01-06T20:49:42-05:00

This is odd to me. I only spent 4 years active duty, but I never once, not once, witnessed this from senior NCOs. I did see E5s do it often and E6s less often, but not once an E7 or higher. This is rather concerning.

Also, when did it become part of AR 670-1 to be mandatory to shave even while off duty? This was not the case 10 years ago.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 6 at 2015 9:23 PM

2015-01-06T21:23:22-05:00

Isn't it piss poor? Even if you weren't a retiree, he could've addressed you a little more courteous. Abuse of power makes a small man feel strong. If he's done this to you, he'll do it to many more. Especially the young soldiers. This is a form of toxic leadership. Hope you called him out in it with his BDE Csm.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 6 at 2015 11:55 PM

2015-01-06T23:55:54-05:00

SGM, I think corrections are needed, but there are exceptions. If you are going to correct someone of ANY rank, tact is required, be professional about it, and keep it on the down low. Why correct a retiree? It's like trying to put square peg in a round hole... Your not going to go far... If your wrong, your wrong... it's easy to make a mistake, owning up to it is the hard part.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 7 at 2015 5:49 AM

2015-01-07T05:49:34-05:00

This is a good one. I seen this get really murky in the National Guard. While Soldiers in the National Guard are not drilling we are in a civilian capacity. In which we can't receive any UCMJ. Some soldiers figure this out. Too often they think they fall under UCMJ 24/7. A soldier can tell his commander to piss off and anything he wants. It would be extremely foolish and potentially damaging your career. But he can't get an ART 15 for it.

But going back to your situation. This beckons what I see often in the Army. I was a PFC at Bragg back in the day. I am an officer in the Guard. I have been many places. It appears to me that the Army has lost some level of professionism. This occured are any different fronts, from taking pretty much anyone that could serve in the Army during the surge, reducing requirement for NCOES like a NCOES course no longer being required to obtain SGT, and at the very least the contest rebranding of what we are. Just because you look the part and wear that pretty black beret doesn't make you a professional. In most cases a lot of soldier honestly don't know what being a professional looks like. Even the in the civilan sector they are suffering.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 7 at 2015 6:03 AM

2015-01-07T06:03:48-05:00

SGM Marquez, since you are a retiree and are not subject to grooming standards. Although true, what does it matter that you had lunch with the BDE CSM? Are you possibly threatening the 1SG with a comment like that?

So he was a bit of an ass. Saying that at the end of your fairly valid rant is the adult equivalent to, "I'm going to tell your mommy".

Response by PV2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 7 at 2015 6:09 AM

2015-01-07T06:09:21-05:00

Awesome! Keep on trucking brother! Way to go!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 8 at 2015 7:36 AM

2015-01-08T07:36:04-05:00

I was just speaking to my girlfriend about this...while on the spot corrections are needed for the most part there is usually a reason for the situation. . i.e. soldier not shaven, or in the wrong uniform, maybe even something really normal like headgear... I wouldn't wanna be that guy correcting a soldier for not shaving, when they have a non-shaving profile..

Response by MSG Chad Smith made Jan 8 at 2015 8:55 AM

2015-01-08T08:55:19-05:00

Obviously not at Fort Bragg or where Special Operations soldiers are located. You will bump into out of reg soldiers all day as they go about there work. Couple things.... Not sure there such a thing as a young 1SG, if there is, thats half the problem....second....approachig civilian clothed folks off duty, risking there status, is not the best COA. Fixing your own soldiers and expressing correct forms of discipline in your subordinates is the historic way of insuring job completion for a senior NCO. I too am retired and probably would have been less cordial by far than the good SGM was in his description of contact with the cherry 1SG.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 8 at 2015 9:38 AM

2015-01-08T09:38:44-05:00

Preach! I think that we need to teach good bedside manner to all Soldiers. It could help some of us avoid stamping on our...selves.

Response by MSG Scott McBride made Jan 9 at 2015 1:10 AM

2015-01-09T01:10:04-05:00

Great read SGM, thanks for sharing.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 12 at 2015 12:06 AM

2015-01-12T00:06:28-05:00

I've got an idea!!!! Why don't we worry about the realy problems going on here in America! Instead of talking about some "cherry " 1SG calling someone out. Wake up!!! There are more serious things going on in this crazy world. We are here to help and support each other.lets pull together and win this thing! Questions? There should be none!