Assisted death / Dignified deaths and depression. Who has the right to die? Your opinion IS?

2015-07-13T12:57:37-04:00

"He asked Tom why he had scheduled the meeting."

“Because you killed my mother,” Tom replied.

Distelmans responded calmly that it was Godelieva’s “absolute wish” to die.

Bieseman recalled, “He was screaming, ‘You went along with the madness of my mother! You went along with her tunnel vision, her defeatism. You’ve just taken away the suffering of one person and transposed it to another!’ ”

Distelmans repeated that he was certain that Godelieva had wanted to die, and that this was her right. Then he said that it seemed there was nothing left to discuss. They all stood up and shook hands..."

“Wouldn’t it be better to invest in mental health and palliative care?”

I am just shaking my head. I don't know how to feel about this at all.
This is a long, but great read. It is only occurring in Belgium At THE MOMENT. It's hard for me to agree to such a thing. I know there was a piece in PEOPLE'S magazine about a woman "... Brittany Maynard, a twenty-nine-year-old newlywed who moved to Oregon last year so that she could die on her own terms rather than allowing her brain cancer to take its course. Her story appeared on the cover of People, which described her as having the “soul of an adventurer and the heart of a warrior.” She became the poster child for assisted death..."

I really get it for times like that, but I find it hard to agree with someone who is depressed to get death assistance. It's a legal form of suicide for me. I have had too many friends take their life because of the disease. What I also found out was that they were also into drugs / alcohol, things that intensify the illness. There are ways to better yourself. I find this very selfish, especially in this family's case.

Though, sometimes, one acquiring about the "assisted Death" sometimes talk their way out of making the decision to die, I just don't think it should be as simple as three doctors agreeing that one is just so depressed, that they shouldn't live any longer.

"He said that most of his patients, even those who are approved for euthanasia, end up deciding that they want to live. But he rejects the idea that suicide is always an indication of pathology. “There’s a whole philosophical history of looking at suicide as a rational choice,” he said. “We, as humans, have the possibility to weigh our own life and decide to end it.”

"When he gives lectures, he tries to appeal to Christian audiences by saying, 'If Jesus were here, I think he would help these people.”'" I believe he absolutely would, but not by killing them, but through healing.

I mean, in the end I guess that is something some depressed people do. I just wish it wasn't becoming so damn easy. This breaks my heart. And the FACT that the doctors say it is the SON that ultimately pushed her the last straw? The one that is so angry with the physicians? I mean, how much guilt are they going to put on this person's back. Just unbelievable.

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/06/22/the-death-treatment

Who Has the Right to Die?

Instead of living with depression, Godlieva De Troyer chose euthanasia. A growing number of psychiatric patients are doing the same.

Response by SCPO David Lockwood made Jul 13 at 2015 1:00 PM

2015-07-13T13:00:56-04:00

My take is the only one who makes this decision is the good Lord himself.

Response by COL Mikel J. Burroughs made Jul 13 at 2015 1:10 PM

2015-07-13T13:10:08-04:00

SGT Private RallyPoint Member I agree with SCPO David Lockwood, but and here comes the "but" I have a living will that gives specific instructions that about when and how the plug will be pulled on me if something happens and I can't make that decision for myself (others will need to make it). That is one example of what I consider to be Assisted Death. My second example is, if I'm suffering from an illness and don't want to suffer any longer than why can't I ask those around me to assist in my death without repercussions? I think we as individuals have that right, so why can't we exercise it without our love ones being charged for murder. I would rather see the Supreme Court make the right decision on this then some of the other stuff they have been working on. Just an opinion that I'm sure some with agree with and some won't.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Jul 13 at 2015 1:15 PM

2015-07-13T13:15:09-04:00

This is a catch 22. If I'm sane enough to make the decision, I wouldn't make the decision. If I'm not sane enough, I can't make the decision.

However I wouldn't want my loved ones to watch me suffer, nor would I want to watch my loved ones suffer.

Response by SGT Jeremiah B. made Jul 13 at 2015 1:44 PM

2015-07-13T13:44:01-04:00

It's an enormously complex problem. On one hand, legitimizing suicide has major consequences. On the other, many people suffer unnecessarily so that the rest of us can sleep at night.

My main problem is that once legalized, the limitations are entirely arbitrary. Belgium has been an interesting case study in that it shows a clear progression from extremely limited use to suicide tourism. The limitations are simply too arbitrary to keep control of.

That said, my uncle recently died of cancer. It was a horrible process and the last two weeks of his life added no value to anyone. He did not ask to die, but would it have been so wrong to allow him that decision?

Response by CMSgt Mark Schubert made Jul 13 at 2015 1:48 PM

2015-07-13T13:48:53-04:00

I don't think we have the right to die any more than we have the right to be born and start living! I believe that God gives life and God is the ONLY one who should say when we die! Our responsibility is to do the best we can to serve others while we are here! Jesus modeled this life. Yes, we all have free will to choose other options, but that doesn't make them right. If you have a disease, depression, whatever, etc, that shouldn't mean you can't be a witness to others. I've known people in various situations - some with unbelievable ailments MUCH worse than just depression, and were able to overcome the challenge and live for Him and be a testament to others that all things are possible with God. And if God doesn't answer your prayer like you want Him too, that doesn't mean he doesn't love you - it just means your plan is not His plan!

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 13 at 2015 2:31 PM

2015-07-13T14:31:54-04:00

SGT Private RallyPoint Member after watching this movie https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVRnG1MddAM, my vision about assisted death or euthanasia changed. Because although we all are against suicide, I think this is something different. This person is trying to do it "the right way", even though there's no right way for it.
This movie is about a true story that I still remember when it happened. Is an eye opener...

The Sea Inside movie trailer.

http://clickerz.info/videos/ Don't forget to rate these trailers... To see movies online visit the above link.

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Jul 13 at 2015 5:32 PM

2015-07-13T17:32:55-04:00

I worked in a small rural hospital ICU and Step down unit. I have seen some very unscrupulous physicians milk families every which way possible to the point where I wanted to get up and just un plug the person so they would get sliced and diced any more on false hopes and promises. It sickened me to watch MD's talk families into performing surgeries full knowing the patient wasn't going to survive, but medicare would pay for the procedure. Who has the right to die, we all should. I would laso step out on limb here and say it is also wrong for pediatric suregeons to try and push the envelope for keeping neonatal patients alive as well. The long term health care problems can floor the family for the rest of their lives, and in the end, the suffering is prolonged. I have seen that as well.

Response by LTC John Shaw made Jul 13 at 2015 10:38 PM

2015-07-13T22:38:41-04:00

SGT Private RallyPoint Member Wow! So much for an easy topic or a short read on the link... I will try to be short, but this can get really long quickly.
Ethically I disagree with assisted suicide, but I am open to a person making their own choice.
Suicide, even assisted suicide with a competent person's consent, is a permanent fix to a temporary problem. I can only see this in very specific terminal illness or quality of life situations and would require consent, a competency hearing, a court appointed guardian who acts in accordance with the intent of the patient/soon to be decedent, a doctor who certified to the nature of the terminal illness or significant quality of life limitation and a finally a specially appointed Judge out of the Probate Court.
No assisted suicide for depression and mental illness as long as treatment at almost any worthwhile therapy is available.
My wife, Melissa, is an estate planning attorney for the last 12 years. We have seen loving, deeply caring families and vile/greedy families who will harm and kill for money. I can easily see a family representing their elder as wanting assisted suicide, when in fact the desire is not there, this can quickly become abused. So while I understand the civil law system in Belgium/Netherlands the process of English case law in the States is very different.
SCOTUS Washington v. Glucksberg (1997) follows the traditional constitutional approach of a matter to be decided by each state. A handful of States are decriminalizing, great for our Republic, let's see what standards play out over time.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 8 at 2016 12:25 AM

2016-07-08T00:25:58-04:00

We wouldn't let an animal suffer a cruel death of suffering...why should we let a human suffer. I have often said in discussion about advanced directives, we make better decisions on bright blue Tuesday mornings. I advocate sharing feelings about code status, organ donation, and life support long before a crisis or lethal diagnosis. We make emotional, and often terrible choices while in a crisis. I have witnessed a thousand or so deaths over the years and I can tell you the families that grieve the least/best are those that knew...or carried out, their loved ones final wishes.