As a new section NCO, what would be the best way to deal with squad leaders who skipped the chain of command (myself)?

CPL Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 07 Feb 2022 19:10:14 -0500

Higher ups i.e. my PSG & PL Want to know what will I do

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 7 at 2022 9:12 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 07 Feb 2022 21:12:06 -0500

You are a Private. You are not part of the Chain of Command. Last time I checked, Chain of Command at the Company Level is from Squad Leader to Platoon Leader to Company Commander. Support Channel would be Team Leader to Section Leader to Squad Leader to Platoon Sergeant to 1SG.

If you notice, the only NCO in both Chains is the Squad Leader. You, as a Section NCO reports to the Squad Leader. They don't report to you.

Response by SFC Kelly Fuerhoff made Feb 7 at 2022 9:26 PM

SFC Kelly Fuerhoff — Mon, 07 Feb 2022 21:26:53 -0500

Section NCO? As a PV2? Do you not have a lot of people in your section? What kind of section are you in? Are you like a team leader?

When I hear section NCO I think like in a staff section (S2, S3, S1, etc) but usually the lowest I've seen is a SPC as a section NCO. But SFC Livingston is right it would start with the squad leader whether chain of command or NCO Support Channel.

Response by SPC Robert Hendrickson made Feb 7 at 2022 11:22 PM

SPC Robert Hendrickson — Mon, 07 Feb 2022 23:22:55 -0500

you must go thru the chain of command .. there is no other way but do that correctly .. unless you are the p. i . c. private in charge of a squad platoon, etc. then you MUST still go thru your up-line C.O.C. read the regs ,, ask around to some of us seasoned active and Veterans they will tell you the same as i .. good day Private.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 7 at 2022 11:30 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 07 Feb 2022 23:30:20 -0500

Don’t be that guy or you will never be a leader. Also, I don’t care if you are in the position, you aren’t an NCO and should not refer to yourself as one.

Response by SSgt Christophe Murphy made Feb 8 at 2022 9:37 AM

SSgt Christophe Murphy — Tue, 08 Feb 2022 09:37:05 -0500

This is a test. You are the new Junior leader and your Boss wants to know how you will hold your ground.

Don't go over the top. Sit down with each Solider and do an initial counseling to establish a baseline with each of them. Go over expectations, goals and etc. Learn what they have done, what they can do and what they wish to do in the future. Also use this time to go over your expectations. Ensure they understand the chain of command and live it there. Once you have a baseline to work with you can move forward without any shadows of doubt knowing everything has been covered

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 8 at 2022 10:03 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 08 Feb 2022 10:03:54 -0500

I see you are a Corporal, and based on comments you had not updated your rank prior to posting so I will go from there.

You are a Corporal and yes that means you're an NCO. Now while I don't know where you are at in your section, whether you're a Team Leader or a Squad Leader, or in charge of a few Privates and Specialists in your section, etc; how you handle this is going to alter how your troops perceive you.

You said you're a new section NCO, how new? Are your guys just used to going through the other NCO's in the chain? If that's the case you'll have to have a sit down and explain the new chain, but not before you talk with your SGT or SSG as applicable about how that chain functions. No need for you to be putting out false information. I can tell you smart PFC's and SPC's will pick up on that false info quick whether you intended for it to be false or not.

So get with your NCO and work out a plan for who exactly are your Soldiers and how you fit into that structure as a Corporal, then get to know your guys, then start building your leaders book with all of the information you'll need about developing your Soldiers (again, NCO chain for good examples and advice), then have that sit down about the new structure as it applies to you and to them.

If there's issues after that, again, get with your NCO chain about how to conduct your first counseling. As a Corporal you're learning how to become an NCO, hell even as a SGT you're learning all the time, and probably screwing things up along the way. So walk into this knowing you don't know what you're doing all the time and just try to be level headed and learn as much as you're trying to lead.

As a Corporal are you owed respect by virtue of your rank? The quick answer is yes. The real question is, what are you doing to earn that respect? If you come down like a hammer over this probable miscommunication or misunderstanding about where you and they fall in the chain then they might "respect" the rank, but they certainly won't respect you.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 8 at 2022 12:44 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 08 Feb 2022 12:44:35 -0500

Just walk up, knife hand fully extended, and demand they respect your newly appointed authority ... I say this joking of course! LOL.. But seriously if you are new to the role, ask for guidance from your leadership on how to approach this. But above all, have you done initial counseling's will all your guys? As a leader, you should get in the habit of doing initials when you get a new Joe or you move to a new leadership role; even when it is lateral and you stay in the same platoon. This will allow you to talk directly to each one of your Joe's an explain your expectations as a NCO/Leader and allow them to ask you questions about things like "how do you want me to communicate when I have a need..." Leadership is not about "you vs. them" it is about producing results while increasing the abilities of the ones you lead. Yes, at the end of the day you are in charge... but you want them to "want" to follow you, not just have to. Hope that helps, bets of luck!

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 8 at 2022 6:29 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 08 Feb 2022 18:29:21 -0500

NCO support channel vs. Chain of Command. First you need to understand your roles and responsibilities. Your PSG/Section Sergeant should outline what is expected of you. As far as what you can do to Squad leaders that jumped you, again, you’re a new Corporal so I would avoid being too heavy handed. But you can verbally counsel them and let them know what is expected of them and if the at doesn’t work, counsel on paper. That’s about as far as your course of action goes. If the platoon leadership sees this as an issue , they should address it early to prevent a continued pattern.

Response by SFC Casey O'Mally made Feb 8 at 2022 10:39 PM

SFC Casey O'Mally — Tue, 08 Feb 2022 22:39:47 -0500

I am confused. The next echelon below platoon is EITHER squad or section. So how are you a section leader with squad leaders below you? Or are the section leaders above you and skipping you by going straight to your Soldiers? Which is their prerogative. It is inadvisable, and leads to confusion and a breakdown in good order and discipline. But sometimes it is necessary, especially in situations which are either time sensitive or a leader wants to address things directly due to the particular gravity of the situation.

Without more details and just a vague complaint, it is very difficult to properly advise.

Was this a one time thing? Is it constant? Have you spoken with the squad leader(s)? Was this an on-the-spot correction or more in the line of tasking or long term guidance? Did the squad leader initially go through you and end up skipping you because whatever it was wasn't getting done - or wasn't getting done RIGHT? Were you present? Were you available? Was this something that could have waited? We're there safety concerns?

So many possibilities of where this would be perfectly legitimate. So many possibilities where it would be bad form.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Feb 9 at 2022 5:30 AM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Wed, 09 Feb 2022 05:30:17 -0500

So for the record you are the NCOIC as a CPL, you have subordinate squad leaders who are not NCOs. That is strange to begin with.

If this is the case then it is important to know whether they did this once or multiple times. Also important is how long you have been there squad leader.

This can range from a first time conversation trying to discern why the did that and what it was about.

I could go on, if you provide more details you can receive better guidance from the group.

Response by A1C Riley Sanders made Feb 10 at 2022 10:45 AM

A1C Riley Sanders — Thu, 10 Feb 2022 10:45:23 -0500

speaking as done so myself, good or not so good, be ready to except the consequences from a harsh
rebuking to the loss of Rank.

Response by SMSgt Bob W. made Feb 10 at 2022 12:01 PM

SMSgt Bob W. — Thu, 10 Feb 2022 12:01:52 -0500

The issue is you go over their head; all of a sudden, the immediate supervisor, who is clueless when asked by their superior, is in your case. It rolls down hill; similar to an Congressional complaint.

Response by SGT Charles Bartell made Feb 10 at 2022 3:10 PM

SGT Charles Bartell — Thu, 10 Feb 2022 15:10:41 -0500

The first thing you need to do is make sure all your paper work is correct. To start with if you really are a corporal ( I.E.) having been pined with orders. His your first N.C.O.E.R. been done? This should give you all off your responsibilities 1.What is expected of you. 2. Personal you are reasonable for. 3.All Equment you will be responsible for as well as the paper work that goes with them. Now to the question of skiping the chain of command. what rank is the person that is skiping you, And what was the issue you may not have the experance to deal with it. What I would do is tallk to the Person that went around you. Talk to them on the side. Remember the rank structure, Simply ask why you where left out. Like I said before you my not have the experience or knowledge to deal with it. Or the just was not time to bring you in. Keep all these thing's in mind. Some N.C.O's that outrank you get butthurt whenever they are questioned. Tack and being respectful can go a long why.

Response by Lt Col Timothy Cassidy-Curtis made Feb 10 at 2022 9:54 PM

Lt Col Timothy Cassidy-Curtis — Thu, 10 Feb 2022 21:54:15 -0500

To begin, I wonder what RP does when one is promoted. Does the rank get adjusted? Does the member have a "click" to indicate a higher rank? If not, it's possible to be "stuck" with the rank your rank when you registered. If there is a way to adjust, then, well, that's something else.

If RP does not let you adjust your rank (if so, hey, RP, can y'all so something about that?) then it's possible this person has been promoted. If RP does let you adjust your rank, well, never mind, RP.

So, on to the situation at hand. I would like to answer the question asked, instead of answering some meta-question (this would be a question about a question). First, I recommend being on best terms with your supervisor (the 2nd level to which the squad members are going). Make sure that, if any members of the squad went to that person, then that person talk to you about what the squad member wanted to see the supervisor about. Don't act like it's a bad thing; you just want to be informed. That's all. I recommend that you don't be a block to your supervisor. Next, be as fair as you can with your squad members. Finally, you might want to see what your supervisor feels about it. It could be possible that you and your supervisor could agree on a typical response to squad members in this case: "Have you talked to your Section NCO about this?" If the answer is "No," then your supervisor can then ask, "Why not?" (These are the kind of questions that imply "I think you should go do that, before you come to me" kind of thing).

Response by SFC Calvin Marshall made Feb 17 at 2022 8:15 AM

SFC Calvin Marshall — Thu, 17 Feb 2022 08:15:14 -0500

Remember everything is about success. Training should fit the point of concern. platoon sergeant need to meet with leadership for an evaluation, What do they see in you the needs to be improved.

Response by SFC Michael Moberly made Aug 19 at 2022 10:08 PM

SFC Michael Moberly — Fri, 19 Aug 2022 22:08:04 -0400

Speak to each one privately. Remind them of their duty to obey orders. Remind them that your evaluation may determine their future promotion. Ask yourself why they go over your head. Review your leadership qualities. Get feedback from an equal or higher ranked soldier in your unit.

Response by MSG Thomas Currie made Aug 20 at 2022 11:35 AM

MSG Thomas Currie — Sat, 20 Aug 2022 11:35:28 -0400

The question seems a bit confusing -- and your comment makes it even more so.
I've never seen a "section" that had "squads" -- which makes it hard to envision a "Section NCO" (whatever that is) having Squad Leaders going over his head to the Platoon Sergeant.

Even when I ignore that and just assume that your unit has squad leaders under a Section NCO. I'm not sure what the problem is. In the situation you describe, the PSG or PL's first question to any squad leader who comes with an issue would have to be "Have you spoken to your Section NCO about this?" Just as the PL would ask if the soldier had spoken with the PSG.

"Skipping the chain of command" is not always inherently wrong. Every military leader is expected to deal with issues experienced by any of their subordinates -- regardless of whether they call it a formal "Open Door" policy or simply good leadership. But at the same time, the first question should always be whether the problem has been discussed at a lower level and what the results were.

With that in mind, and assuming that your PSG and PL are competent, I note that your describe yourself as a "new section NCO" -- I would think (and hope) that your PSG isn't upset that squad leaders are coming to him directly so much as that he is trying to help you develop your leadership skills by handling whatever issues might arise within your section.

What you do about the 'problem' depends greatly on what you think the cause of the problem is. Are your Squad Leaders going directly to the PSG because that's what they have always done? This would be the case if your position was recently created or if the position had been vacant for a while before you. Are they going to the PSG directly because they don't have confidence in your ability to handle their problems? This might be because the last section NCO didn't do well, or because they don't think you know what to do, or perhaps because you were promoted from within the section and they still see you as "just one of the guys". Are they going to the PSG because they see you as the problem or part of the problem?

There are ton of possible reasons for the situation and even more possible nuances of the relationships within the section and platoon.

In general I don't think it is a matter of needing to "deal with" the squad leaders unless you are convinced that bypassing you is a deliberate attempt to undermine your authority. It seems that the first step is to ensure that the squad leaders know the chain of command and realize you are there to help resolve whatever issues they might have. This might involve speaking with them together or individually, depending on your personal style and your impression of the situation. Another possible approach is to start by talking with the entire section to remind everyone that you are available to handle any issues but that whenever possible they should utilize the chain of command by starting with their squad leader. This reinforces the role of the squad leaders in the chain of command as well as reminding those squad leaders that you are the next link in that chain.

Response by SSG Bill McCoy made Aug 20 at 2022 4:58 PM

SSG Bill McCoy — Sat, 20 Aug 2022 16:58:49 -0400

As a Corporal, you ARE an NCO. Simply instruct your co-worker subordinates that YOU are the start of the chain of command. After that, you address the NCO who allowed them to go around you, but there may be a circumstance where it "could" be proper depending on your unit's SOP and the subject matter, especially if it's of a sensitive or highly personal nature.

Response by Lt Col Timothy Cassidy-Curtis made Aug 21 at 2022 12:09 AM

Lt Col Timothy Cassidy-Curtis — Sun, 21 Aug 2022 00:09:11 -0400

I will answer your question directly. There are some elements, and I will take them one at a time.

First, get with your supervisor. If personnel are skipping the Chain of Command, then they are going to somebody; that is likely to be your supervisor. So get with that person. Discuss what that person has heard/been told.

Next, formulate (draft) a plan to deal with what you heard from your supervisor (yes, you can get your supervisor to provide some guidance, even after you have drafted your plan).

Finally, put your plan into action.

Rinse, repeat. This will be an iterative process. Everyone does it, even your supervisor (very likely).

Response by SMSgt Bob W. made Aug 21 at 2022 12:41 AM

SMSgt Bob W. — Sun, 21 Aug 2022 00:41:30 -0400

ANSWER THE GUY'S QUESTION. STOP HARRASSING HIM FOR NOT UPDATING A DUMB NON-MILITARY SITE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You guys need to grow up.

Response by SFC David Reid, M.S, PHR, SHRM-CP, DTM made Aug 21 at 2022 1:56 AM

SFC David Reid, M.S, PHR, SHRM-CP, DTM — Sun, 21 Aug 2022 01:56:25 -0400

We would have a come to Jesus meeting to set.ground rules on how we should conduct our business.

Response by SFC David Reid, M.S, PHR, SHRM-CP, DTM made Aug 21 at 2022 12:35 PM

SFC David Reid, M.S, PHR, SHRM-CP, DTM — Sun, 21 Aug 2022 12:35:41 -0400

Learning how to effectively utilize your chain of command is fundamental in properly it for its designed purpose. The provides a certain decorum in addressing issues at the appropriate level and fosters communication with a leader who should be addressing the issue at hand.

Response by SPC Tamara Trammell made Oct 1 at 2022 10:49 PM

SPC Tamara Trammell — Sat, 01 Oct 2022 22:49:05 -0400

I've had to jump the chain a few times, and was even apologized to for being put in that position.

Communicate. Make sure your soldiers know who you are and what they can expect from you.

Know your job. Just because I don't know something doesn't mean I can't tell you don't know either. If you're unsure and don't communicate (that word again...) your efforts to learn or master it, I don't have the patience for you to fix your own incompetence. If you have to tell me you're in charge more often than you show me, you're failing to communicate your leadership.

Watch for bias. Soldiers who appear more or less competent, soldiers you enjoy talking with, soldiers who drive you up the wall, you need to work with all of them; none of your soldiers are your friend or your enemy. Likewise, don't favor yourself. Your rank really is just a splash of ink and some thread unless you put in the work to make it otherwise.

Have a mentor. You can only get so much advice online. You need someone who knows you and what you're going through personally.

Response by Maj John Bell made Oct 2 at 2022 6:37 PM

Maj John Bell — Sun, 02 Oct 2022 18:37:25 -0400

I'm trying to understand the scenario.
_If your juniors skipped you and went directly to the Plt Sgt or Plt Leader, barring some immediate urgency, the juniors should have been sent straight back to you. In that case the Plt Sgt and Plt Ldr are failing you.

If an NCO senior to you, but junior to the Plt Sgt, is jumping in downline from you. It isn't your place to "correct" them. But I'd ask that senior NCO what gives? In this case apparently the Plt Sgt and Plt Ldr know about it. If they do it is their place to correct the NCO who is stepping on your toes. Once again, the Plt Sgt and Plt Ldr are failing you.

Response by SFC Joseph Behmke made Oct 3 at 2022 1:41 PM

SFC Joseph Behmke — Mon, 03 Oct 2022 13:41:28 -0400

You need to tell them they need to go thru you so you can grow and learn as a new leader. We all learn by our mistakes and good choices. If they never give you that opportunity how do they expect you to grow into a better leader.

Response by SGM(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 3 at 2022 8:43 PM

SGM(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 03 Oct 2022 20:43:50 -0400

Look inwards. It is 100 percent the right of any Soldier to address an issue with a higher member of the command. Hence.. why the open door policy exists. Look at your leadership style and try to dig into why during that instance your Soldier felt like they couldn't address the issue with you. Sometimes they just want to make waves. However, at other times you are not presenting yourself as a "trusted agent".. or your style/approach to that individual might be the problem. Respect for your position should be demanded.. trust on the other hand isn't something as easily given as is lost. Always look down before you look up. Check yourself first. People first is not about coddling. You can be a hard charging leader and a shoulder when the situation demands it. Learn to shift gears and know your Soldiers. Many new NCOs make the mistake of thinking every slight needs a response. Knowing the difference between an intentionally subversive act and someone simply not trusting you to listen and take action is something that will come with time. Hope that helps.

Response by SSG Douglas Shaffer made Oct 4 at 2022 2:05 PM

SSG Douglas Shaffer — Tue, 04 Oct 2022 14:05:15 -0400

As a "New" leader you are going to have to assert yourself, confront the individual find out what is their problem and why is it that they feel you can't seem to fix their problem. You command is aware of the situation and are relying on you to fix it. You are an NCO now, fix it.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 23 at 2022 9:55 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 23 Oct 2022 09:55:40 -0400

I’m serving as a platoon sergeant for 25 Soldiers. My peer is the NCOIC and runs operations. Can you imagine running a shop of 25 people if they jump the line? I’m not saying I won’t help them if they come to me. But think about the stress on my end. Eventually I would like to go home at the end of the day. Once or twice is not a big deal, but a trend will make me upset. I will call the CPL and SGT in and ask why I’m doing their jobs. If it continues the CPL will get a negative counseling and the SGT will have it reflected on their NCOER as incapable of taking care of Soldiers.