As a leader what's worse, making a bad decision or continuing with the bad decision shortly or long after it's been shown to be bad?

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 25 Jun 2016 12:44:00 -0400

It’s one thing to be a confidant leader who is resolute in your decision but another to be stubborn in light of facts. Assuming you had the authority to pull the plug on a mission (regardless of size) what's your standard?

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Jun 25 at 2016 12:52 PM

CPT Jack Durish — Sat, 25 Jun 2016 12:52:25 -0400

I have yet to figure out how to judge a decision. I can only judge results. Differing decisions may all be right or wrong and still achieve desired results. I highly recommend Rhinoceros Success which argues that there are factors far more important than those things we usually focus on
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Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 25 at 2016 12:54 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 25 Jun 2016 12:54:07 -0400

Poor or bad decisions are decided to by our leadership today in the White House, the FBI, the State Department and in the Pentagon on a daily basis. It is happening with our Candidates. I don't know where to begin. The mistakes have, in a way, caused England to want to leave the EU!

That is why I am doing stories on Aviation and I am doing one on the only submarine sunk in the Gulf of Mexico by an American Sub Chaser during WW2. Today's reality was made fun of by Monty Python and Saturday Night Live. It is too depressing!

Response by MCPO Roger Collins made Jun 25 at 2016 12:58 PM

MCPO Roger Collins — Sat, 25 Jun 2016 12:58:37 -0400

Since I never made a bad one, this is purely hypothetical. :)

Bad decisions are occasionally overlooked when a new leader assumes the position as a learning experience. A good leader realizes their error and becomes a better leader. Since the leader has a "Boss" that has responsibility, the situation normally resolves itself.

Response by SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth made Jun 25 at 2016 1:31 PM

SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth — Sat, 25 Jun 2016 13:31:57 -0400

Normally when handed a mission to do during AT we sat down and looked at the situation at hand, collected our own intel, and then performed the mission. This was normally during an OPFOR training.

Response by LCpl Cody Collins made Jun 25 at 2016 1:34 PM

LCpl Cody Collins — Sat, 25 Jun 2016 13:34:28 -0400

It depends on where you stand , in the decision making process? For example, the decision to except Homosexual marriage and make it League. To me that was the worst decision our Nation's Courts could have made. But to someone else it was the best decision one could make.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 25 at 2016 1:35 PM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 25 Jun 2016 13:35:33 -0400

Everyone can make a bad decision. or, even a good decisions that turns bad. Only the egotistical or an idiot refuses to correct course.

Response by SGM Steve Wettstein made Jun 25 at 2016 1:52 PM

SGM Steve Wettstein — Sat, 25 Jun 2016 13:52:36 -0400

IMO it is continuing with a bad decision. Everyone makes mistakes but you have to learn from them. If a decision you made isn't working you need to fix it.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 25 at 2016 2:01 PM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 25 Jun 2016 14:01:22 -0400

I believe leaders based their decision of what facts they have currently at that point. Yes some people would naturally think it would be a bad one, however unless you look at it from both perspectives then one would trully understand their decision process.

Response by AB Bruce Lager made Jun 25 at 2016 2:26 PM

AB Bruce Lager — Sat, 25 Jun 2016 14:26:19 -0400

Part of being a good leader is being able to accept responsibility for your mistakes. If you know you have made a mistake, the best example that you could possibly set is to own the mistake, and then correct the mistake. That is a way that respect is earned.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 25 at 2016 2:33 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 25 Jun 2016 14:33:17 -0400

Continuing with the bad decision is worse in my opinion. There is always some amount of humility, modesty required when leading soldiers. We all come from different backgrounds, different life experiences and your way may not work the best each time. Knowing when to admit your wrong is part of being in the front.

Response by 1SG Cameron M. Wesson made Jun 25 at 2016 3:46 PM

1SG Cameron M. Wesson — Sat, 25 Jun 2016 15:46:09 -0400

No brainer... the leader that keeps to the track and continual staying with a bad Course if Action... without trying to change the variables that might allow you to arrive at a different outcome. That leader is destined for a lessons learned in the, "this is what you shouldn't do... catagory of leadership". Thankful, I listened... and adapted... unfortunately... thats not always the case.

As a leader... I have made plenty of poor decision... and a few out right bad one.

Some were so bad that I was like, "I couldnt have dreamed that up did I?!" And of course, I had! And the truth of it stung... but was able to move past it. As the soldiers saw that... people make mistakes... and if I should them lessons learned for later... so be it.

One thing I think should be considered as another facet of this senario... is failing to completely implemwnt a plan. I have watched folks fail to completely implement a plan... and as soon as something wasnt going right... they pulled it or changed it... without following through. This is in some case just as bad as you do not see where the real challenges are hidden... just the "tips of the icebergs". This is where a good leader has to watch and see if they can track it and find the systemic or real challenge... then try to fix it.

My 2 cents anyways

Response by CPT Joseph K Murdock made Jun 25 at 2016 4:02 PM

CPT Joseph K Murdock — Sat, 25 Jun 2016 16:02:16 -0400

Will it work and am I putting people in extra danger.

Response by CPT John Sheridan made Jun 25 at 2016 4:10 PM

CPT John Sheridan — Sat, 25 Jun 2016 16:10:08 -0400

Decisions that turn out bad are a consequence of making decisions. The only ways to avoid making a mistake are to never make a decision and never take a risk.

That being said, following through with a bad decision is a form of the sunk cost fallacy. "We're halfway to hell, we might as well go all of the way. No half measures."

The ability to recognize failure and change course is an element of mature leadership. Leaders that never fail should not be trusted any more than leaders that don't change their mind in the face of failure. Unfortunately, the OER/NCOER systems combined with remote promotion boards effectively weed out leaders that take risks and learn from mistakes. Consequently, leaders who's highest capabilities are quoting regulations chapter and verse and following the plan all of the way to hell are more likely to get promoted than leaders that push the boundaries and learn from their mistakes. The good leaders have to live within a system that one wrong move can end a career.

This is not to condemn all Army leaders. Quite the opposite, I knew plenty who were intelligent and flexible and didn't document the "learning experiences" of their subordinates. I also saw plenty of toxic leaders that moved on up by avoiding difficult decisions, fixing blame to others, and sucking up to their commander.

Response by MSgt Zachary Wiederstein made Jun 25 at 2016 6:21 PM

MSgt Zachary Wiederstein — Sat, 25 Jun 2016 18:21:18 -0400

From Barbara Corcoran.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 25 at 2016 6:33 PM

Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 25 Jun 2016 18:33:42 -0400

A leader is going to make a bad decision from time to time, unless he's making no decisions at all. But to stick with a bad decision once the facts have shown it to be a bad decision is the far greater offense.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Jun 25 at 2016 7:35 PM

SGM Erik Marquez — Sat, 25 Jun 2016 19:35:43 -0400

If no body died in the decision making then the second
Continuing a bad decision after its clear it was not working had bad second or third order effects is worse

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Jun 25 at 2016 7:35 PM

SGM Erik Marquez — Sat, 25 Jun 2016 19:35:44 -0400

If no body died in the decision making then the second
Continuing a bad decision after its clear it was not working had bad second or third order effects is worse

Response by CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 26 at 2016 6:25 AM

CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 26 Jun 2016 06:25:27 -0400

Simple. It's better to recognize a mistake early and adjust fire accordingly. Continuing in a course of action in the face of clear, compelling evidence of error isn't leadership at all.

Response by MSG Michael McEleney made Jun 28 at 2016 12:51 PM

MSG Michael McEleney — Tue, 28 Jun 2016 12:51:21 -0400

Pull the plug

Response by CWO3 Jeff Metcalf made Jun 30 at 2016 1:39 AM

CWO3 Jeff Metcalf — Thu, 30 Jun 2016 01:39:46 -0400

I believe it's important to remember that a plan is just a plan and most coming straight from the blackboard will not survive first contact. Plans must be organic and never developed inside of a vacuum. As leaders, I firmly believe it is our responsibility to communicate the reality of any operation to our troops as often and accurate as possible so as to breed confidence through situational awareness. When necessary, it is paramount that we take a step back, reassess the environment and modify our course of action(s) so that we are able to meet objectives while maximizing organizational benefits and/or effectiveness. In my opinion, the toughest aspect regarding the aforementioned is determining the necessity threshold in that just because an alternative might be easier, it doesn't necessarily make it the better option.